More people killed by .22lr than any other round ????

In last 20 yrs we have had two people killed with 22s, bang flop
dead. One was a goof that shot a groundhog and wounded it. He
gave it a butt stroke with a semi auto which went off and took
him right under the chin. The other was a old guy sitting on his
porch reading the paper. Some guys were walking down the creek
plinking with 22s. They shot at something and bullet hit the guy
in the back of the head killing him instantly. In both cases there
were others present with the victims when shot, and there was
nothing they could do, DOA. I think some of deaths from 22s are
because people don't have any respect for them, not much more
than a BB gun, in their minds. As many 22s as there are it doesn't surprise me they are #1 for fatalities, no counting the
deaths in the wars.
 
The point of defensive pistol carry is to stop an violent attack. Whether the attacker dies an hour later after killing you is irrelevant. Yes the 22lr can be a killer, so can a pointy stick. The issue is does it stop an attack with anything but a headshot & that is often a no.
 
The point of defensive pistol carry is to stop an violent attack. Whether the attacker dies an hour later after killing you is irrelevant. Yes the 22lr can be a killer, so can a pointy stick. The issue is does it stop an attack with anything but a headshot & that is often a no.


The question was not if the .22lr could be lethal; I think everyone here would agree a 22lr round can kill a person..... rather...

The question was; is there any factual basis for the often quoted "More people have been killed by the .22lr than any other round."
 
So many statistics, so little time......kind of a big yawn, who cares, carry the gun that you can use well, etc. I actually have been known to occasionally carry a .22 caliber pistol like a Walther PPK/S .22 or a Walther P-22 and I never felt like it wasn't going to keep my sorry behind out of danger. They are reliable and NO MISCREANT likes getting shot by any caliber! Period.

For nearly 20 years I carried a Beretta 950-BS in .25 ACP. I never worried about that one, either.
Israeli Mossad /Military also use of suppressed .22 Ruger 10/22 rifles and MK pistols in assassinations come to mind

Let us note that the Mossad used the Beretta Model 70 pistols for their up close and personal assassinations and I assure you that Beretta Model 70s, even as outdated as they are, are still in the hands of the IDF. Whether they use them just for practice or for tourists I can't say but I watched them use them and used one myself when presented with the opportunity in 2015 so I guess someone in the IDF still likes them for something.

And I still like mine and have carried it a time or two as well, now that I think about it.
 
The Navy SEALS have in fact been issued special "dark" Ruger Mark IIs for clandestine operations. This is a yet-unpublished article I wrote a while ago on them. It would appear that the .22 LR round is alive in well in our military. Hope you find this information of interest.

John

RUGER_SEALS_ISSUE_MARK_II_22_PISTOL_WITH_INSIGNIA_zpspdea9rk1.jpg


These are some of the little known modern pistols used by our armed forces. I myself discovered their existence just a short number of years ago. Very few are in civilian circulation, as the large majority reside in the armories of our elite Navy SEAL teams. They are very special Ruger Mark II pistols made to the exacting specifications of our Special Operations Command. They have not been talked about much before now, so perhaps I can bring you up to speed on them.

Their story began in early 1987, when, according to an inquiry response from Sturm, Ruger and Company, they were approached by a “U.S. government agency” to see if they could produce some specially-modified stainless Mark II .22 pistols. Ruger was subsequently awarded a contract in March of 1987 with the U.S. Navy for a limited number of special stainless steel Mark II pistols. They were in fact destined for issue to U.S. Navy SEAL teams.

One of the specifications called for a “darkened finish” to be applied to all exterior parts. It’s pretty difficult to darken stainless steel, but Ruger did apply what appears to be a sprayed-on and probably baked black finish that somewhat resembles the Parkerizing that has traditionally been applied to U.S. issue standard steel weapons. If you will note from the picture above, all traditionally bright exterior features were blackened. Normally, a portion of the bolt, visible through the ejection port, was left in the white. On this gun, the entire bolt was blackened. Other normally bright parts such as the trigger, grip screws and even the Ruger emblem in the grips were similarly darkened. The finish used on the grip and barrel frames is somewhat fragile, and can be scratched or scraped fairly easily. Interestingly, the last three digits of the serial number were applied at the factory via a small sticker near the base of the magazine for each gun. In this way, each magazine was visibly certified as being test fired in the gun with which it was shipped. I had not noticed one of these stickers until one fell out of the magazine well on the gun I handled when I removed the magazine to clear it. The magazines were totally black with the exception of the loading button on the left side. Even the magazine floorplates, which usually incorporated a contrasting color Ruger emblem, were totally black.

An unusual feature of the gun is its front sight. While at first glance it appears normal for a 5.5” bull-barreled Ruger, it has some subtle differences. Its base is narrower, measuring .250” in width. The specifications for this pistol called for it to be “reinforced,” so it may also have a deeper and/or wider retaining screw at its center. Although the reason for the narrower sight base was not given, I’m pretty sure I know the answer. A number of sound suppressors have been made for specific firearms with non-tapered barrels, using the “slip and twist on” method of attachment. With this type, the front sight does double duty as a sort of bayonet stud which will fit into an L-shaped slot in the suppressor base. If such a suppressor was made and provided for this special gun, it would not fit a normal bull-barreled Ruger pistol, and would in fact be impossible to attach to a civilian gun. The reason for the sight being “reinforced” would mean that it was obviously also used for a purpose other than sighting. Suppressed .22 pistols have been in service with the U.S. military since the Office of Strategic Services employed the Hi-Standard Model U.S.A. H-D MS pistols during WWII. This newer Ruger pistol allows a quickly-employable and detachable suppressor to be used - in effect, a newer twist on an old idea.

The specifications called for no unusual packaging, so these guns were shipped in the regular yellow cardboard Ruger boxes proper for 5.5” bull-barreled Mark II pistols. These boxes had no end labels indicating the pistol type they contained. However, internally, the factory referred to the SEAL pistols as Models “KMK-512B.” The pistols all had standard Ruger markings of that period. Each gun was wrapped in a plastic bag, put into the box, and a standard Mark II instruction booklet was included. These boxes each had a fixed black plastic pillar which entered the trigger guard to anchor the gun in the box. The yellow box was in turn enclosed in a plain brown cardboard shipping box. One end piece of this outer box was marked with the serial number, using a black felt pen.

The unknown number of Navy SEAL guns are believed to have had serial numbers prefaced with 212- or 213- followed by five digits. There are estimated to be approximately 50 (opinions differ – perhaps as high as 84) that are in civilian hands. The reason for their existence is that there was a small overrun of the pistols. These were offered to the Ruger Collectors Association for its members. None were obtainable through general public sales. The pistol illustrated was shipped in February, 1988, as part of the overrun. It was subsequently purchased from a member of the Ruger Collectors Association.

How were these guns to be utilized by the Navy SEALs? It’s part of the record that some special suppressed Smith & Wesson 9mm pistols were furnished to the SEALs during the Vietnam War. They garnered the nickname “hush puppies,” because they were ostensibly intended to be used to silently eliminate enemy guard dogs. Even quieter .22 caliber pistols, on the other hand, make very efficient close range personnel elimination weapons. These are usually employed by shooting an enemy in the head, usually needing only one very quiet and accurate shot. SEALs are routinely trained in covert “extreme predjudice” techniques, and these pistols, equipped with suppressors, would be perfect tools for clandestine missions.

A former SEAL team member told me that he was aware of these pistols, but had never trained to use one. The Heckler & Koch Mk 23 Mod 0 .45 ACP SOCOM pistol can also be equipped with a specialized screw-on sound suppressor, and it was more available for training and use with his particular SEAL team. Although most SEAL deployments are classified, I suspect these .22 pistols have seen little if any active employment in actual missions. However, they are certainly still available if needed as specialized tools of the Special Forces trade.

The existing “dark” Navy Ruger Mark II .22 pistols in civilian hands are few and far between and are not often encountered. However, if you do and are interested in purchasing one, you now know the history of them. Be prepared to use your best negotiating skills, and also expect a hefty asking price if the owner is willing to consider parting with it!

(c) 2018 JLM
 
Well if it hasn't killed more people than any other round you can still bet it's taken more small game than any other round. It's been around over 130 years (1887). A lot longer than most modern day rounds and is still a top selling competitor.
 
I suspect that at one time a lot of crooks and such carried the so called (Saturday night git yer killed) 22s like the Rohm, Clerk, and other pot metal guns and they were used in a lot of shootings. When I was on the streets back in the 60s and 70s a lot of our bar fights on Fri. Sat. ended in a regular shoot out at the OK coral. Someone would start shooting and the next thing you know everyone was shooting. I went to one bar fight where there were 7 people shot all with 22s only one died. Afun time was had by all.
 
In my years of professional experience, the .22 is not the weapon of choice in homicides or attempted homicides. Yes, many have been killed with a .22, but nowhere near to what have been killed or wounded by a .38 Special/.357 Magnum, 9mm, and .45 Auto. A gun is a status symbol to the criminal street gangs, and a .22 doesn't have a lot of status. This is just my experience.
I think your experience is valid. Back in Jordan's day, there were a lot of cheap .22 revolvers floating around. Anybody else familiar with the term "Saturday Night Special"?
 
It has been said, "the mob used the 22 for back of the head and in the ear shots for years." They were cheap, could be semi silenced, and when the deed was done just throw it in the river and if needed again buy another cheap one.
 
If the measure of lethality for .22s is based on the number of .22s in possession, then one could just as accurately state more people survive being shot by .22s than other calibers also.
 
I got shot with a 22LR......


It didn't stop me and I haven't succumbed to it.................yet ;) :D.

Me too, and I've still got the marks on my butt to prove it. Of course, it was a pass through and probably didn't touch any muscle along the way, and it was a long way away from the bone! My uniform pants and my skivvies were also severely traumatized. But it sure did stir up that adipose tissue on the trip through. It's a long story, and not one of my finest moments, but I can now look back on it and smile! But I don't tell more than that without being paid!
 
I had a 17 or 18 year old hot head that worked for me one summer and fall ca.1975. His sister was in a motherly way and he insisted the father take responsibility. He got shot point blank in the chest with some form of 22 RF, just before he beat the father into submission. Then he ran over 1.5 miles to a nurse's house and collapsed on her front porch, she got him to an emergency room and he spent the next 3 weeks in the hospital. His 19 year old moron brother worked for me at the same time and told me why he wouldn't be at work!

I have use a 22 revolver to euthanize many sick and injured animals, but always right between or just behind the ears. For dealing with wounded animals that are still on the prowl, I use 12 gauge with buck or slugs, whichever may be best!

Ivan
 
Or the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round, assuming that is what Stalin, Mao, and the boys used for "persuasive political" purposes...

Actually Vasily Blokin, Stalin's (Yegoda, Yezhov and Beria) NKVD executioner preferred the 5.65 mm (.25acp) Walther PP and supposedly carried around a briefcase full of them and German ammunition to feed them.

PS the .25acp was designed to duplicate the ballistics of the
22LR from a pocket pistol, with a 50 percent heavier, internally lubricated or jacketed bullet and a more reliable centerfire ignition system.
 
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Friend was hit by a 22LR round while mowing his yard ..

Hit him in the right rear of his head as you looked at him .. didn't go through his skull but did break it and caused some damage that had to be repaired by a brain surgeon .. the bullet was found under the skin just behind his ear .. he spent 9 days in the hospital .. and about 3 weeks off work due to severe headaches ..

Police at the time thought it was some kids shooting in a creek across the road from his house .. others including myself and him think it was a assassination attempt by a rival motorcycle gang for some undisclosed reasons ..

He's now retired in Arizona somewhere ..
 
The question was not if the .22lr could be lethal; I think everyone here would agree a 22lr round can kill a person..... rather...

The question was; is there any factual basis for the often quoted "More people have been killed by the .22lr than any other round."

Consider that the 22lr in some form or another, was one of the first cartridges manuf, first smokeless manuf, what 140y ago? Good bet it has killed a bunch of people.
 
^^^I am going to guess that the most common caliber of civilian firearm is .22LR. People who have one gun, or a hundred, who honk the .45, or .44, .357 or .38, .223 or .308 or .270, probably all own .22s. Everyone I know, who owns at least one gun owns a .22LR. I bet a lot get picked up to investigate the sound of breaking glass at 2 am.^^^
 
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