Mosin Nagant project

[Arik]

Correct. The Dragoon was a transition between the M91 & M91/30. The stock and fittings are from the M91/30 but with the M91 rear sight and without the hooded/globe front site of the M91/30.

Couldn't tell the stock from the pic, on my end

 

[Ματθιας]

I also plan on refinishing the original stock and selling that along with all unused parts and accessories (bayonet, oil can, etc.) to to recoup some $$. I've seen them selling for as much as $80!

You'll get more money of you sell the stock and hand guard as is and NOT refinish it.

 

[Ματθιας]

As much as I agree with you, the fact is their are millions of 91/30's out there and their is no shortage of them. Not every milsurp can be owned by a collector. I'm glad he chose this rifle instead of some rare Mauser or Springfield. People tend to forget that after the wars back then, most people bought the milsurps and turned them into sporters. It is an American tradition whether we like it or not. Think about it this way, where can you buy a 30 caliber cartridge for 20 cents around and a rifle that fires it for a $150? You can't and that is why so many people sporterize the Mosin.

James

Yes, I've seen some valuable Mosins hacked/sporterized by people who don't know and/or didn't care what they have/had.

Also, those now rare Mausers and Springfields used to be common, cheap and ammo was plentiful.

 

[sheepdawg]

No, just a stock pic I found online. I purposely picked out a cheap beater for this project.

Like I said it's your rifle but just think about it, there is a possibility, though very slim, that your beater rifle made it to the roof of the Reichstag late April, 1945. Never know with these old warhorses. That's why I choose to leave them as is.

 

[Budasac]

Like I said it's your rifle but just think about it, there is a possibility, though very slim, that your beater rifle made it to the roof of the Reichstag late April, 1945. Never know with these old warhorses. That's why I choose to leave them as is.

It may have but, NO ONE would ever know if it did or not. Therefore, there is no value in it. I can appreciate the history but, these things are a dime a dozen. There is a plethora of these in stock form sitting in closets, safes, cabins, under beds, etc. throughout the world. I'm not too concerned about them disappearing (certainly not in my lifetime anyway.)

I know hacking up an old rifle is not everyone's cup of tea but, I like projects and I'm not gonna go nuts on a brand new rifle. I was looking for a $100 beater to mess with and this Mosin fit the bill for me.

 

[vonn]

Some people buy things to collect,some to use,some to modify to suit what ever tickles their fancy . I have seen some really nice "bubba built" guns and some really bad ones but if it makes bubba happy that is their choice and go for it.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

This is why what's left today is so expensive. Because they were plentiful and people hacked them. There are also different styles of collecting. Everyone wants a mint #s matching Garand or Springfield. When it comes to Mosins that criteria is of course a huge plus but people collect them for their uniqueness and battle use. For example one of my Mosins was made in 1901, captured by the Austrians in WW1, had things changed by them. Then sold to Finland and used to fight the Soviets in the winter war. Later is was most likely re captured by the Soviets because it was sold to the Balkans. Contains markings from all Imperial Russia, Austria, Finland, and Serbia. Also looks like the Austrians re chambered it for 8x50R. It's full of European history from the first 50 years of the 20th century.

Then there are ones that you really have to know what it is your looking at. You can have a early 30s typical 91/30 and think it's just whatever when in fact it came from the Spanish Civil war. They have a few tell tale signs but they are easily overlooked by someone who thinks it's just another 91/30.

Btw, one m38 carbine just sold for $1500. No import marks, none referbed, contained the early sale sight base of the M38 and Fin capture. The last part is really what makes it rare as there were not a lot of M38s used against Finland. An M 44 would cost even more and be even more rare cause there is something like 120 known Fin capture M44s

True but I do not think any other milsurp can compare to the amount of Mosin's made. I could be wrong on that but Mosin's are just about everywhere and still are being imported in. The vast majority of 91/30's have no real value and probably will not be for quite some time. How many estimated Mosin Nagants did they make?

James

 

[Budasac]

Actually, the collectors should be happy every time someone hacks up a Mosin, because then the one sitting in their safe collecting dust will go up in value a little.

 

[GypsmJim]

I recall reading somewhere that, if you consider all of the variants and countries making them, there were more Mosins made than any other military rifle in history.

Interesting that we have had a nice civil discussion thus far. There is a milsurp forum out there that would have deleted this thread and banned the author from further posts. There are some that are beyond passionate about bubbafying.

I will confess to having made a sporter myself. But it was a parts gun that cost $16.66 shipped, and the end of the barrel was damaged. Shortening it was the only option to make it shootable. Out there is a "kit" that includes a turned down bolt handle and a scope base. It even comes with the drills and taps and bolts. That's what I used.

I also put a Scout Mount on another unmolested pre-1898 Finn 1891. The one I have has a pristine bore on an early Russian captured receiver (taken from a sunken ship). The mount works very well as a matter of fact. It has to work for me with my bifocals or I couldn't realize the outstanding accuracy of this piece. Remove 1 pin and the rifle is back in its original condition. That's why the Scout is preferred by many collectors.

I have more Mosins in my collection than I will admit to. (even more than the S&Ws in my safe.....LOL). Back when I started collecting them the parts guns were less than $20 and the good ones were $39. Found a lot of parts guns that were complete and quite usable. 660 round spam cans were about a nickle a round. Glad I bought a lot of them!

 

[Arik]

True but I do not think any other milsurp can compare to the amount of Mosin's made. I could be wrong on that but Mosin's are just about everywhere and still are being imported in. The vast majority of 91/30's have no real value and probably will not be for quite some time. How many estimated Mosin Nagants did they make?

James

Wiki shows 37 million Mosins from 1891 - 1965

14 million 600 thousand K 98 from 1935 - 45

Enfield 17 million between the MLE and SMLE - still in production

 

[Arik]

I recall reading somewhere that, if you consider all of the variants and countries making them, there were more Mosins made than any other military rifle in history.

Interesting that we have had a nice civil discussion thus far. There is a milsurp forum out there that would have deleted this thread and banned the author from further posts. There are some that are beyond passionate about bubbafying.

I will confess to having made a sporter myself. But it was a parts gun that cost $16.66 shipped, and the end of the barrel was damaged. Shortening it was the only option to make it shootable. Out there is a "kit" that includes a turned down bolt handle and a scope base. It even comes with the drills and taps and bolts. That's what I used.

I also put a Scout Mount on another unmolested pre-1898 Finn 1891. The one I have has a pristine bore on an early Russian captured receiver (taken from a sunken ship). The mount works very well as a matter of fact. It has to work for me with my bifocals or I couldn't realize the outstanding accuracy of this piece. Remove 1 pin and the rifle is back in its original condition. That's why the Scout is preferred by many collectors.

I have more Mosins in my collection than I will admit to. (even more than the S&Ws in my safe.....LOL). Back when I started collecting them the parts guns were less than $20 and the good ones were $39. Found a lot of parts guns that were complete and quite usable. 660 round spam cans were about a nickle a round. Glad I bought a lot of them!

All Fin rifles were on Russian receivers. Either bought or captured

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Wiki shows 37 million Mosins from 1891 - 1965

14 million 600 thousand K 98 from 1935 - 45

Enfield 17 million between the MLE and SMLE - still in production

How many are milsurps? I was not talking about actual production. My bad.

James

 

[Arik]

How many are milsurps? I was not talking about actual production. My bad.

James

Yea that I don't know. I tried looking it up but there isn't much info on end of production dates. Russia made some in the 60 and 70 for target shooting in 6.5x54, and Finland did the same but with different cal. Hard to say if they made new receivers or recycled the old. If they recycled then technically they are all milsurps

 

[Frank46]

I don't know why the Finns used the hexagonal receivers for their rifle reconstructions. However having said that I have a beautiful M-27 with an almost mint bore. Swapped it for a Lee Endfield #4 MKII also in really nice shape. I had just finished reading an article by one of the members of the cast boolit association and was looking for a moisin with a very nice bore. This one shines like a mirror. Only loads that have been fired are cast boolit ones crafted by myself. I have since found out that by the markings on my M27 which was made in 1935 by the Finns is kind of a hard to get rifle. Has the ski troop swivels and barrel markings are from VKT. Still not going to sully that rifle with steel jacketed ammo. Just cast Boolits. Frank

 

[Arik]

I don't know why the Finns used the hexagonal receivers for their rifle reconstructions.

Because they were available and there is no difference in function or durability. Just the shape

 

[Budasac]

.........
Interesting that we have had a nice civil discussion thus far. There is a milsurp forum out there that would have deleted this thread and banned the author from further posts. There are some that are beyond passionate about bubbafying.

I will confess to having made a sporter myself. But it was a parts gun that cost $16.66 shipped, and the end of the barrel was damaged. Shortening it was the only option to make it shootable. Out there is a "kit" that includes a turned down bolt handle and a scope base. It even comes with the drills and taps and bolts. That's what I used.

I also put a Scout Mount on another unmolested pre-1898 Finn 1891. The one I have has a pristine bore on an early Russian captured receiver (taken from a sunken ship). The mount works very well as a matter of fact. It has to work for me with my bifocals or I couldn't realize the outstanding accuracy of this piece. Remove 1 pin and the rifle is back in its original condition. That's why the Scout is preferred by many collectors.
.....

I find it interesting that people would have anything less then a "civil" discussion about this. I can understand the purists but, clearly there are lots of people customizing their Mosins based on all the aftermarket offerings. I've even seen a Mosin Bullpup at the range.

I've also seen relatively new rifles and shotguns that have been spray painted with a rattle can without even disassembling the firearm. That's the kind of stuff that bugs me. As I've already stated, I like projects and enjoy the process. Like or not, it is what it is.

 

[Ματθιας]

OP, before you started investing time and money in your 91/30, how did it shoot? What kind of ammo gave you the best groups?

 

[Budasac]

OP, before you started investing time and money in your 91/30, how did it shoot? What kind of ammo gave you the best groups?

Only a few rounds were fired to function test it. Milsurp ammo with iron sights. It hit paper at 100 yards with my crappy eyesight. That's why I want scope it and go test shoot before going further. All I have invested is the stock and rail which can be reused on another rifle if necessary. And time, doing something I enjoy and getting some experience.

Admittedly I kind of blindly jumped into this project but, my intention was simply to find something to ceracoat before doing my new 1911. I tend to get a little carried away. Getting the stock as a gift kind of pushed the project a little.

 

[vonn]

Give us a range report when you can! Mine tend to like one type of ammo more than others ,just something to keep in mind. Good luck!

 

[Arik]

I find it interesting that people would have anything less then a "civil" discussion about this. I can understand the purists but, clearly there are lots of people customizing their Mosins based on all the aftermarket offerings. I've even seen a Mosin Bullpup at the range.

I've also seen relatively new rifles and shotguns that have been spray painted with a rattle can without even disassembling the firearm. That's the kind of stuff that bugs me. As I've already stated, I like projects and enjoy the process. Like or not, it is what it is.

I'm a purist when it comes to milsurps and I'll say that I don't like the customization but that's just my opinion and I'm certainly not going to beat up the OP for it.....just a difference in likes