Naval rank question

[Dennis The B]

Because during and before WWII, there were right sleeve and left sleeve ratings. The difference being combat ratings and non-combat ratings, meaning during a combat situation, a combat rating had authority or seniority over a non-combat rating. Boatswainmate was a combat rating, Personnelman was a non-combat rating. It just happened to evolve into rating badges being worn on just one side.

The "right arm" rates included boatswain's mates, gunner's mates, torpedoman's mates, etc. I read, somewhere in the past, that the right arm rates (mates) reported up through warrant officers. Warrant officers had professional ratings which included torpedoman, boatswain, gunner, and others. The enlisted ratings were the "right arm" to the professional. And they were, as OLDNAVYMCPO stated, the "combat" ratings.

There are other "mates" ratings, such certain airman rates, and the old Pharmacist's Mates, which eventually became Hospitalman. The engineering and hull ratings also had professionals, such as electricians, and machinists, and their "assistants" were referred to as Electrician's and Machinist's Mates. The Airdales had Photographers and Aerographers, among others.

Right after WWII, all rating badges were transferred to the left arm.

PS - My commanding officer was COMCBLANT, and simultaneously Commander 3rd Naval Construction Brigade during the Viet Nam War. He was a Commodore, wore Captain's insignia, but rated a one star flag. He also reported to Commander Fleet Marine Force, and the Facilities Command at Norfolk. He also tooled around Davisville in an Austin Healy 1000, wearing a peacoat in the winter, and the saltiest looking white cover I had ever seen.

During Viet Nam, the Seabees were attached to Fleet Marine Force Viet Nam, and they rated the Marine EGA on their Viet Nam Campaign medals and ribbons. They also had odd deployments; Nam for 9 months, home for 6 months, and then 9 more deployed.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

During the Duece the Navy and everybody else was running out of skilled 'Ratings' folks.
So when my Dad went to Boot Camp in Idaho. - Idaho?
Can you really learn to be a Sailor in Idaho?
Anyway, they had some kind of interview testing routine to determine if you had any applicable civilian skills which would transfer over to Navy Skills.
When my Dad came home, he was a Carpenters Mate, 3rd Class.
Crossed Hatchets back then.

 

[britbike1]

"You got that right, Ace. The senior non-coms have always been the people who ran every military force."


I believe the road to hell is paved with the bones of young Lts that didn't listen to their senior nco's.

 

[Texas Star]

Why don't Commodores rate a single star, especially if they can fly that flag on vehicles?

Commodore seems a somewhat dormant rank. ?? We had Commodores like Perry in the past.

The Navy should have a rank equivalent to Brig. Gen. in the other forces. I think they usually jump from Captain to Vice-Admiral? (Two stars)

I read somewhere that Commodore is now mainly a wartime rank.

I was in the Air Force and figured out the Navy officer ranks. The enlisted ones are still often a mystery to me.

 

[STCM(SW)]

"The Navy should have a rank equivalent to Brig. Gen. in the other forces. I think they usually jump from Captain to Vice-Admiral? (Two stars)"

That's Rear Admiral (two stars) lower half, not Vice Admiral.(3 Star)

 

[les.b]

I was in the Air Force and figured out the Navy officer ranks. The enlisted ones are still often a mystery to me.

That's how I always thought about the Air Force EM ratings... I could never count high enough to comprehend all of those stripes!!

Here's a coffee mug that belonged to a friend of the family, sadly now departed. I guess he was some sort of Sergeant?

He was a shooter too. He loved the .45 1911, and had a bunch of them. Mesothelioma took him way too soon.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Texas Star]

That's how I always thought about the Air Force EM ratings... I could never count high enough to comprehend all of those stripes!!

Here's a coffee mug that belonged to a friend of the family, sadly now departed. I guess he was some sort of Sergeant?

He was a shooter too. He loved the .45 1911, and had a bunch of them. Mesothelioma took him way too soon.

Best Regards, Les

Chief Master Sgt. The diamond probably indicates that he was also a First Sgt. A Senior Master Sgt. has just one upward pointing chevron. I don't recall seeing a diamond above the chevrons when I was in, but that was awhile ago.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

 

[Texas Star]

I don't know the Marine sergeant ranks. Where does some kind of Gunnery Sgt. replace being a Staff Sgt. or Tech Sgt. or Sgt. First Class, etc.

I know Army ranks unless one gets into the Specialist grades.

BTW, I knew a Vice Admiral outranks a Rear Admiral. I just goofed when I wrote that above. I'm tired today.

 

[CH4]

Gunnery Sergeant is E-7, which is the same as a Sergeant First Class in the Army, Chief Petty Officer in the Navy and Master Sergeant in the Air Force.

 

[CH4]

Chief Master Sgt. The diamond probably indicates that he was also a First Sgt. A Senior Master Sgt. has just one upward pointing chevron. I don't recall seeing a diamond above the chevrons when I was in, but that was awhile ago.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

In the AF, the first shirt diamond is located in the blue field between the upper and lower chevrons.

 

[Texas Star]

In the AF, the first shirt diamond is located in the blue field between the upper and lower chevrons.

That's what I thought, too. No idea why it's on the cup that way.

 

[UncleEd]

What really gets me are the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force
scrambled eggs/lightning bolts on the hat visors of higher ranking
officers.

I think the Navy was first with the visor do-dads with MacArthur
doing his thing all by himself for the WWII Army.

Pretty silly.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

That's what I thought, too. No idea why it's on the cup that way.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that the whole cup is a gag, including the number of stripes. Isn't the paygrade equal to the number of stripes plus two?

 

[Dennis The B]

Why don't Commodores rate a single star, especially if they can fly that flag on vehicles?

Commodore seems a somewhat dormant rank. ?? We had Commodores like Perry in the past.

The Navy should have a rank equivalent to Brig. Gen. in the other forces. I think they usually jump from Captain to Vice-Admiral? (Two stars)

I read somewhere that Commodore is now mainly a wartime rank.

I was in the Air Force and figured out the Navy officer ranks. The enlisted ones are still often a mystery to me.

Commodores have, to my knowledge, always been ranks which came between Captain, and Rear Admiral (lower half). I've seen photos of Commodores who wore a single 3-inch gold stripe on their cuff, and wore a single star on the shoulder boards.

In the Navy, officers promoted to flag rank, go from O-6 (Captain), to O-7 (Rear Admiral [Lower Half]). Rear Admiral (Upper Half), is the same as a Major General in the Marines, Army, Air Force.

The history of Commodores, is that they commanded more than one ship, such as a flotilla during time of war.

 

[les.b]

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe that the whole cup is a gag, including the number of stripes. Isn't the paygrade equal to the number of stripes plus two?

No, the only question is why the guy who painted the design on the cup put the diamond on top instead of in the open space between the stripes. I knew the fellow who owned the cup and he was was in the Air Force, and he was legit. I have just never learned all the complicated patterns... here is a chart of all of them... including officer and enlisted ranks and ratings....

 

[Targets Guy]

Why don't Commodores rate a single star, especially if they can fly that flag on vehicles?

Commodore seems a somewhat dormant rank. ?? We had Commodores like Perry in the past.

The Navy should have a rank equivalent to Brig. Gen. in the other forces. I think they usually jump from Captain to Vice-Admiral? (Two stars)

I read somewhere that Commodore is now mainly a wartime rank.

I was in the Air Force and figured out the Navy officer ranks. The enlisted ones are still often a mystery to me.

That is the Navy "playing the game". One star was for Commodore. Navy thought hmmm AF, Army and Marines are all Generals. We want to be Admirals so when a Navy Captain gets promoted he becomes a rear admiral to all concerned but he only gets paid at the one star level (0-7 pay grade) until he makes upper half and then gets 0-8 pay but he is an admiral all the time not a Commodore first. It used to drive the AF one stars I worked for crazy that the lower half rear admirals got to wear two stars.

I think the Navy dropped Commodore late in the 1800s and then brought it back during WWII. When senior captains got more than one ship to command or be responsible for they were made Commodores. But my Naval history is sorely lacking although my Dad (a WWII E-6) tested me extensively on the "Blue Jackets Manual".

 

[Dennis The B]

...
I think the Navy dropped Commodore late in the 1800s and then brought it back during WWII. When senior captains got more than one ship to command or be responsible for they were made Commodores. But my Naval history is sorely lacking although my Dad (a WWII E-6) tested me extensively on the "Blue Jackets Manual".

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my commanding officer was a Commodore, who wore 4 stripes, but rated a one-star flag. The time frame was the Viet Nam, technically a time of war. The ranks were temporary, and my CO retired as a Captain about a month after I went off active duty. I believe that any others would also have reverted to the rank of Captain upon retirement or the end of hostilities.

 

[CH4]

No, the only question is why the guy who painted the design on the cup put the diamond on top instead of in the open space between the stripes. I knew the fellow who owned the cup and he was was in the Air Force, and he was legit. I have just never learned all the complicated patterns... here is a chart of all of them... including officer and enlisted ranks and ratings....

The above picture denotes the current AF enlisted ranks, which were changed in 1991. Before that there were 3 chevrons and 3 down, with a max of two on the very top - they just moved one stripe from the bottom to the very top.

Here's an example of the old E-9 rank prior to October of 91.

 

[PPS1980]

"The Navy should have a rank equivalent to Brig. Gen. in the other forces. I think they usually jump from Captain to Vice-Admiral? (Two stars)"

That's Rear Admiral (two stars) lower half, not Vice Admiral.(3 Star)

Plenty of stories of Brig. Generals in USA, USAF, and even USMC saluting a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) because they wear two stars even though they really only rate 1. Never saw it happen myself but heard lots of stories over the years.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Plenty of stories of Brig. Generals in USA, USAF, and even USMC saluting a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) because they wear two stars even though they really only rate 1. Never saw it happen myself but heard lots of stories over the years.

This reminds me of something that actually happened to a Senior Chief (E-8) who worked for me (but he was an E-7 Chief at the time that it happened). He and some others were TAD (that's TDY in other services, but in the Navy, and presumably the Marine Corps, we go TAD, which stands for Travelling Around Drunk) to someplace in Scandinavia, probably Iceland. Anyway, late at night they arrive in a POV at a gate manned by the U. S. Air Force. The Chief was driving, and showed his ID. The gate guard seemed puzzled about what the rank was, so the Chief explained that there was no exact Air Force equivalent, but it was approximately equivalent to Air Force Major.

Based on my experience and the Senior Chief's experience in a multiservice program involving aerial photographic reconnaissance processing, the responsibilities associated with various ranks would indicate that the Chief was accurate in his description.