Need for a high cap CC pistol?

Markpixs

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I often read the need for 14-19 rounds vs. 6 in a revolver but facing 4 armed robbers, one shot seemed to break their resolve -
"According to Nesky, a person was approached by four armed males while in the 14900 block of Health Center Drive in Bowie Tuesday around 5 p.m.

The four, armed suspects demanded property from the person, which was taken. The victim, described as a 38-year-old man, was then told to hand over his car keys. It was after that moment that the victim produced a handgun and shot one of the robbers. After the subject was shot, the suspects fled on foot."
Armed robbery victim takes matters into his own hands, shooting attacker in Maryland | WJLA
 
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Most people who carry a concealed weapon will never have a need to use it. My thought is to carry what you are comfortable with and most importantly a firearm that you will actually carry.

For me, that is sometimes an N-Frame, other times a K-Frame. Perhaps even a BHP or a 1911. But I practice with them all, and will have one with me. I carried one for work in plain clothes for decades, so I am rather used to it.
 
The needs for a handgun for a private citizen is somewhat different than that for the duty pistol of a uniform cop. Generally speaking having any gun and getting off one or two good shots if it comes down to it will do the job. However, that being said, if you have to start throwing lead the odds have gone against you already. Carry what you are comfortable with and what you can hit with, but it must be small enough and light enough and concealable enough that you actually do carry it. Does you no good in the safe at home.
 
I figure in an armed confrontation, I might as well resolve to myself I'll get shot, regardless of how many bullets I have to return fire with. Not that I'm going to stand out in the open and let the bad guy take his best shot, but I'm not going to blindly reach over the fender of the car I'm hiding behind and spray bullets hoping I'll hit him.

It's shown that someone with their weapon already out has a distinct advantage, so trying to draw your own weapon before seeking cover is sure to get you shot early in the confrontation. Once behind cover, or while moving to throw off the aim of the other, it's all about choosing your shot and when to make it. If I need more than 10 rounds to neutralize the threat, I figure I'm done for anyway.
 
a lot depends on your location and threat level. I am not in favor of mouse guns for a number of reasons but in most cases a 5-6 shot revolver or a single stack semi auto in .380 or above will suffice. I have several carry options and choose depending on where I am going. I always carry a reload not so much for the additional ammo but in the event of a malfunction.
 
The number of cases where a citizen concealed carrier (not undercover or off-duty LE) has lost a DGU event due to capacity or caliber is essentially zero. People like to fantasize about needing their G19 and three mags to survive a trip to the local Quickie Mart, but the data is not there.

The probability of you needing that extra 15 round mag in a DGU is far exceeded by the probability that your "great trigger" Apex Kit will contribute to a ND event in your polystriker.
 
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so , how far away does a threat have to be in order to need 15 rounds?

RUN Forest ....RUN!

I believe time would be better spent learning to hit what you aim at using the fewest rounds possible. Also knowing that if a threat is too close, it isn't a gun fight. And if a threat is too far away , it isn't self defense.

But then I also don't believe in dry firing a gun until you break it. If you shoot the gun at a target , the trigger will get smooth and so will you trigger pull and you will become a better shot. Best bang for the buck is to make it go bang. Win Win
 
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I'd rather have an MP5 with a 15 round magazine than a Glock with a 30 round magazine. I'd rather have an M1a or G3 with a 10 round magazine with 8 rounds loaded than a high capacity auto loader handgun with 15-20 rounds in it.

At some point, the issue becomes the ability to control the weapon in combat, at some point firepower becomes more important. If you get into a bad situation, you don't need more rounds for a smaller, harder to control handgun that has limited terminal performance. You need a better gun, not just more rounds.

The MP5 (or semi auto equivalent) vs Glock example I listed above is a golden example. Same cartridge, but how much more effective is an actual PCC or SMG vs a pistol? With greater stability, you can aim better, follow up better, make those shots count better. 15 rounds in a carbine of the same caliber is going to do you better in any combat situation.

In a fight against one attacker, the more stable gun is better. In a fight against many attackers, moving and shooting, under stress, how effective is that handgun firing multiple rounds at multiple targets? Before one of them hits you? Before you have to get to cover, or over run them? Or they try to over run you? Are you trying to kill them, put them out of the fight, pull a retreat under your own fire?

That's why "high capacity" handguns are over rated in reality. What is the magic number? 13 from the Hi Power apparently isn't good enough anymore, for some magic reason. 15? 18? 20? Goofy extended 30 round stick magazines in your pocket? And, how many of those rounds can you use effectively against multiple attackers in a real life fight? Really? Not just comparing numbers to numbers on paper.

More capacity, without affecting reliability, is always a good thing. But it isn't the winning, dominating advantage some seem to think it is. The revolver trusim of "if you can't do it in 6 shots, you can't do it at all" is a smartass saying that isn't true, but isn't exactly false. The answer to missing targets, or not wounding them enough to put them out of the fight, isn't more missed shots or weak under powered ones.

If you "need" a 20 round magazine in a handgun, you need a rifle, a shotgun, a machine pistol, or a machine gun. If you expect four armed attackers, you need the same.

The limitations of the handgun mean that capacity isn't its greatest limitation. And more capacity won't save itself from those limitations.

I have nothing against people who carry high capacity magazines, they are just fine. But the idea that they have the upper hand because of it, or will prevail because of it, is nonsense.
 
There has been a study published, based on a poll of over 50,000 Americans who voluntarily answered questions about gun ownership and use. About 16,000 of them admitted to gun ownership. I'm sure it has its flaws, but the study showed that more multiple-assailant encounters happen than we think, but also that a huge number of encounters are ended without a shot fired. In those cases, a .22LR Derringer plenty (I'm kidding, sort of). The trouble is, of course, you don't get to control when that happens. Mitigate your risk as you see fit, there's no "one size fits all" solution to concealed carry.

2021 National Firearms Survey by William English :: SSRN
 
Guys, I hate to tell you this, besides the concept of beating a dead horse as subtly noted by jjmIII_Ruger, you are NEVER going to get into a confrontation on the street where you need 15 rounds unless you have decided to take a stroll through what we proverbially call "Indian country". This presumes you're not a law enforcement officer or headed into the Ukraine, yes?

It's just not going to happen. Even in a multiple assailant situation you're very unlikely to get into a prolonged gunfight. It jus' beez dat weigh....

Case in point - the bandit who executed the two New York City cops the other day was planning this ambush and had a pistol with a drum magazine attached. That very same guy is unlikely to have been looking for YOU. He was planning a serious gunfight with LEOs.

Another case in point is above - 4 robbers and the victim pulls a gun, fires once, buh-bye robbers.

That's the statistical evidence. That's the anecdotal evidence. If you think that you need 15 rounds and reloads maybe you shouldn't be headed "there"? Jus' sayin'.........

My usual EDCs are a 5 shot J frame M649 or an 8 shot Walther CCP 9mm. If I switched to my Chiefs Special pistols I still don't get more rounds. The 45 is 6 plus 1, the 9mm is 7 plus 1. I mention those because I like those guns and might go back to them.

If I have a concern I can always carry an extra magazine or two when I carry the pistols. Or a speedloader or cartridge wallet for the revolver. It's rare that I would have such a concern. And then I can switch to a 6906 to get to 12 rounds but I'd never carry a gun larger than that. Too uncomfortable. My significantly higher capacity pistols are for when the balloon goes up, if ever. Or for fun at the range.
 
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Statistically speaking we don't need the pistol at all, and should all be focusing on upping our cardio game, losing weight, and limiting our exposure to carcinogens.

We all like guns, and as a result many of us carry one. I don't think it matters all that much which one you choose.

That said, the need discussion is only part of it. Anything I could carry a J frame in I can carry my 365XL in and have more than twice the ammo, a gun that's easier to shoot, a gun that's more durable, and one that is far easier to reload if needed. A P365 is even smaller, and Glock 43x/48s and the Shield plus are similar. If I can carry a 1911, I can carry a Glock 19 or 17 and have more than twice the ammo, simpler operation, and less weight.

The hicap arguments here get too tied up in "how many rounds do I need" and ignore the counterargument of "why should I take less when there's no downside to having more?". Nobody is going to convince anybody to drop their J frame, nor would it matter for them anyways, but it is always funny to see the amount of ire directed at higher capacity autos on the forum. Gun tech moves on, I love revolvers but there's a reason modern (mostly polymer) autos are dominating most handgun markets.
 
At 75 the reality of sciatica restricts me to a 340PD or LCP in a pocket holster. The M&P 9MM Compact is a better choice, but I can't carry it for more than about 30 minutes. My days of chasing bad guys are long behind me.
 
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Nice to see a fresh topic for once, LOL!
Agreed, but gets some Friday 'debate' going. It's local to me and this area's had a lot of carjackings, interesting change in outcome. My carry options usually top out at 8 rounds.
 
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At 75 the reality of sciatica restricts me to a 340PD or LCP in a pocket holster. The M&P 9MM Compact is a better choice, but I can't carry it for more than about 30 minutes. My days of chasing bad guys is long behind me.

Could you carry something bigger OWB?
 
all comes down to how good a shot you are.
Barry Bullseye likely can get by with his six shot.
Shaky Sam likely needs more.
 
... should all be focusing on upping our cardio game, losing weight, and limiting our exposure to carcinogens.

I agree on the other topics, but they are separate risk categories from personal defense.

Anything I could carry a J frame in I can carry my 365XL in and have more than twice the ammo, a gun that's easier to shoot, a gun that's more durable, and one that is far easier to reload if needed. A P365 is even smaller, and Glock 43x/48s and the Shield plus are similar. If I can carry a 1911, I can carry a Glock 19 or 17 and have more than twice the ammo, simpler operation, and less weight.

What is more likely with a striker-fired higher capacity gun?

Needing that extra capacity or high-speed tactical reload in a DGU.

or

Experiencing a ND from inadvertent trigger actuation.

or

Having a magazine release unknowingly actuate leaving you with a awkward single-shot upon draw.

I am also amused by the "more durable" comment with regards to the P365 vs a J-frame.

... but it is always funny to see the amount of ire directed at higher capacity autos on the forum.

You should see the amount of ire directed a folks who don't subscribe to the high-capacity polystriker cabal on other forums.
 
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