Need help picking a ranged rifle

[Csc57]

I love my 15-22 with lucid hd7 with the 2-5 magnifier. I get 3" groups at 50. I want a rifle that can reach out to 300 yards accurately for target shooting on the farm. Is a .223 AR a good choice or should I go .223 bolt action? I plan on going with a simple setup.

Thanks for any help.

 

[BAM-BAM]

To get it started.....you will get a lot of ideas coming along


Both can work....... the AR platform will need to be a Mid/higher end AR ( with a 1in8 or 1in9 twist for bullets over 55grs)......the S&W optic ready comes to mind....... what are they going for now $1,200-1,300?

A good bolt gun like a CZ 527 will be in the $700-750 range......... would/is be my choice. I have 2 an American and an FS(mannlicher stock)..........

but most important don't skip on getting a good scope.......300 yds. I would suggest a 3-9X minimum

PS If you are in a state like Pa.(me) semi's are not permitted as hunting or just walk around the woods guns

 

[hangnoose]

SIMPLE SETUP

there's not much simpler than an H&R break open single shot. to keep things steady at 300 & accurate, I'd want some wt to it . the H&R's are not very expensive and you can buy and add on many different bbl.'s, shotgun/rifle/muzzleloader. gonna send you a pm.

 

[CrazyFingers]

the AR platform will need to be a Mid/higher end AR ( with a 1in8 or 1in9 twist for bullets over 55grs)

Why would he want looser twist for heavier bullets?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Why would he want looser twist for heavier bullets?

From the CZ website:

The 527 Varmint models in .223 Remington feature a 1:9" twist barrel, intended to stabilize bullets up to 70 grains, while the 527 American models in .223 feature a 1:12" twist more suitable for bullet weights of 55 grains or less.

I have the CZ 455 Varmint (rimfire) and love it. It is a tack driver. I shoot Black Hills .223 69 Gr. Matchking in my AR and it is exceedingly accurate at 200 yards. I never shoot further than that so can't talk about AR accuracy at 300 yards. If I were you, I'd look at the 527 Varmint using similar ammo to what I have.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I not the best to explain the physics........

but my understanding is that 1in8 (best) and 1in9 (good) stabilize heavier bullets over 55 grs. while 1in12 is better for .55gr bullets and lighter.

Redneck........ I'm a CZ fan with 452s in .22lr and .22mag and 457s in .223.......great guns for the money.......

 

[36general]

Why would he want looser twist for heavier bullets?

Actually it's a "tighter" twist if you want to call it that. It's one full twist in 8" vs 1 in 12". The faster twist, such as 1 in 7,8,9, stabilizes the heavier as well as usually longer bullet.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I love my 15-22 with lucid hd7 with the 2-5 magnifier. I get 3" groups at 50. I want a rifle that can reach out to 300 yards accurately for target shooting on the farm. Is a .223 AR a good choice or should I go .223 bolt action? I plan on going with a simple setup.

Thanks for any help.

To better answer your question, I would think we need to know how accurate you want to be... and if maybe most of your shooting will be inside 300 yards with 300 being the max?

For example, my Stag 2T is not designed for extreme accuracy but with the 69 Gr. Matchking ammo, it easily shoots 3/4 MOA from a rest... not locked down but just rested on a sand bag. That ain't too bad, as that means I'm shooting 3/4" groups at 100 yards. And that is with using an Eotech with 3x magnifier.

 

[TheMaineEvent]

I was at the range yesterday and a guy had a Thompson/Center Venture in 308. I've seen them before and thought they were sexy, but after shooting it I'm liking it even more.

Might be worth looking into.

Edit: I should add that you can't go wrong with a WWII rifle like a Mosin Nagant. You can sportify one with an Archangel stock and add a scope. Mosin's are nearly indestructible and still be had fairly cheap, but the best thing about them is the ammo is VERY cheap. Surplus 7.62x54R ammo can still be bought for about 100 bucks for 440 rounds. That's 22/cents per round for a hard hitting round that you can have a lot of fun with or take down just about any game there is.

 

[canoeguy]

I would recommend the CZ 527 as well, I have the 22" barrel, .223 caliber version with a Redfield Revelation scope ($155 scope), and it will shoot groups of .70 inches at 100 yards. I use Sierra 52 grain HPBT Match bullets.

The rifle has a lot of neat features, detachable magazine, fairly light weight for such an accurate rifle. The action is Mauser like, some call it a "Mini Mauser". Another thing I've found during extended shooting periods, the hotter the rifle gets, the tighter it shoots. Zero never wanders, no fliers, groups just keep getting smaller.

Our club shoots a 40 round Silhouette Match once a years, chicken, pigs, turkeys and rams, 40 rounds in 20 minutes. At the end of the match, the rifle is smoking hot, but shooting like a house afire!

 

[finesse_r]

I think for what you are talking about I would opt for a 6.8 or even a 6.5 Grendel upper on a AR-15 lower. These rounds afford slightly heavier bullets and greater accuracy for the distance you are talking about. If you already have a lower you can simply add the upper and use the same lower you already have.

However that said, you could just use a good quality AR-15 in 5.56 and get nearly as good accuracy.

 

[H Richard]

You mentioned you are mainly interested in punching targets. If your goal is sheer accuracy, get a bolt action. The CZ would be acceptable, but a Heavy Barrel Remington 700 in any preferred caliber (.223) would do a great job, and I would expect to get sub half inch @ 100 yard groups. Or if money isn't a big concern, get a Remington action, have it barreled and stocked by a quality gunsmith in a 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 twist heavy barrel t shoot 65 to 70 gr. bullets in .223. You should be able to get 1/4" groups @ 100 yards and under 1" at 300 yards. Working up the loads is the fun.

 

[BAM-BAM]

While my CZs are in the "Sporter class" they also have a heavy/longer (24") barrel Varmint model.

The 527 is a mid sized action perfect for the .223......you can spend more but CZs are good value for the money.

CZ has 3 action sizes 455 small, 527 medium, and 550 large

 

[CrazyFingers]

I think you guys missed my point on the twist question.
1/7 is Colt TDP and mil standard for 62gr, and of course heavier bullets. To recommend 1/8 or 1/9 for heavier bullets makes no sense and is contrary to established practices.

Not to mention that 1/7 does a fine job stabilizing 55gr too.

 

[LVSteve]

I was at the range yesterday and a guy had a Thompson/Center Venture in 308. I've seen them before and thought they were sexy, but after shooting it I'm liking it even more.

Might be worth looking into.

Edit: I should add that you can't go wrong with a WWII rifle like a Mosin Nagant. You can sportify one with an Archangel stock and add a scope. Mosin's are nearly indestructible and still be had fairly cheap, but the best thing about them is the ammo is VERY cheap. Surplus 7.62x54R ammo can still be bought for about 100 bucks for 440 rounds. That's 22/cents per round for a hard hitting round that you can have a lot of fun with or take down just about any game there is.

The only problem with that game is making sure that the donor rifle is not a rare year and/or variant. Sporter one of those and Mosin collectors will tar and feather you. Besides, you never get the money out of a sportered gun that you put in.

Best bet for a 300 yard gun that is cheap to shoot is a .223 bolt action Savage.

 

[BigBill]

I chose the brand new Russian Izmash Saiga sporter in 223 for just $259 at the time. I was never interested in the mini-14 ruger nor the at-15. After benchresting my brand new Russian Izmash Saigas in 308win @ 100yds she was shooting 1 1/2" groups with a 16" barrel using south African surplus 308 ball ammo. For a semi-auto rifle with this kind of accuracy for $289 is hard to brat. Then seeing this kind of accuracy i went back to the LGS to purchase another saiga in 308win and the rack was empty and refilled with the saigas in 223. I was never interested in the 223 round nor the high priced
black rifles that shot it, but the low cost of the brand new Russian saiga was hard to pass up. For just $259 at the time I grabbed that one too. We haven't benchrested it yet but it seems to be equal in accuracy to the 308 saiga. You have the Russian chromed
lined bore and chamber plus the battle field proven in any type of weather with the dependability and reliability of the Russian ak/akm design. I think it's the hottest buy on the planet right now.

The people at izmash in Russia did say they would make the saigas more accurate than its ak/akm brothers are. And they did do it with success. Bigbill

 

[CH47gunner]

CZ527 Varmint, in .223. I put this one together for ground-squirrel & prairie dog busting.
It has the tighter 1/9 barrel twist, which allows heavier bullets, which allows farther range. Plus it has the adjustable two stage trigger - for a hunting trigger just pull - for a lighter trigger push forward on trigger until it clicks than it's an extremely light/target trigger.
Dead accurate out to 300yds (more maybe?), very consistant, removeable five shot mag., and pretty too.
I set-up my nephew's Savage VLP in .223 and while a nice rifle, the CZ will out shoot it all day.

Good Luck,

Bruce

CZ527 Varmint in .223, w/ Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40SF, & Warne Maxima rings.

 

[Rule3]

The higher the twist number (slow twist) the lighter the max bullet.

1:14 =55 gr max (slow twist)

1:12=65

1:9=73

1:8=80 (fast twist) beyond this the 90 grain bullets may not fit a mag

I prefer bolt action for paper punching at long range, A 223 is fine or maybe move up to a biger 22-250 or a 308 Win.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Crazy fingers........ guess that's why I don't generally mess with ARs.....the tinker toy of guns....LOL

I've been over on AR15 ...makes your head spin... seems no one can agree on anything.. a simple question has 10 answers with 6 caveats to each answer..... what I learned is that there are no "established practices" when it come to ARs .... at least on that Forum!!!!!!!

I decided that ....a simple M&P 15 is "OK" for my needs......

Rule 3....... that's what I "kind of knew/thought".... but looked at C---'s web site and they are all now 1:7twist ...... I remember that the 1:14 was to make them tumble........

 

[Rule3]

1:7 twist needs like a 90 grain VDL bullet for what I do not know?

As much as I like CZ and have a CZ 452 22lr

I can not agree with CH47 gunner. My savage VLP DBM 223, Lam stock, 1;9 with accu trigger will shoot one hole shots all day also.