Need Your Opinion on First Revolver Purchase: 649-5
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They absolutely are!
While some use Airweights or Airlights, steel or Stainless Steel J's are a favorite back up weapon for cops nationwide.
opinion ... 649
I use a DeSantis that I have had for years, inside left ankle for right hand draw. The one I have has a thumb break strap, seems to work with all grip styles.
Another one i have seen that is popular is the Renegade, now produced by The Wilderness, that one is elastic and nylon. It is constructed so you pull through in an upward motion, grip style shouldn't matter with that one.
I use a DeSantis that I have had for years, inside left ankle for right hand draw. The one I have has a thumb break strap, seems to work with all grip styles.
Another one i have seen that is popular is the Renegade, now produced by The Wilderness, that one is elastic and nylon. It is constructed so you pull through in an upward motion, grip style shouldn't matter with that one.
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loeman
Member
Congratulations! I've had a 649-3 in .357 since I bought it new in 1996 (I think). It is very accurate and is a pleasure to shoot. It has been my most carried gun, usually pocket carry. The Uncle Mikes grips fit me perfectly. If anything ever happened to it, I'd be looking for another right away.
loeman
Member
I've never had any concerns regarding extraction. A sharp whack with your palm will almost always do the job. At least that has been my experience.
StakeOut
US Veteran
Anything done to a revolver after it left the factory should be closely looked at and then ask yourself is this really what I want or am I settling for something else.
Altered Guns =????
Altered Guns =????
John Patrick
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There is no +P 357 magnum, your gun can shoot +P 38spl.
The short extractor rod issue is mitigated some by using 38spl standard or +P ammo since the 38spl case is shorter than the 357 magnum case.
I have a 638, which is 38spl +P capable but not 357. I use Speer 135gr +P Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo. This ammo has a proven record in snubbies with the NYPD.
In your heavier steel 649 you might want to look at Buffalo Bore's 158gr 38spl +P Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point Gas check ammo too. It's performance is at the top of 38spl +P performance and in the light 357 magnum arena.
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Thanks.
Would you clarify: "The short extractor rod issue is mitigated some by using 38spl standard or +P ammo since the 38spl case is shorter than the 357 magnum case."
Can you help me understand how a shorter case makes it easier? Do you mean that there's less contact area between the spent case and the cylinder that creates friction and resistance to extraction?
Also, it doesn't look like it's had too many rounds shot through it. Would I need to disassemble the crane and cylinder for a thorough cleaning?
Finally, would shooting gloves help mitigate any hand injuries from shooting .357 Magnum, such as stress fractures and thumb nerve damage*?
Thanks
* Jerry Miculek said that he had thumb nerve damage from shooting Scandium-frame S&W revolvers. However, I couldn't find anything about that condition from on-line medical sources.
Would you clarify: "The short extractor rod issue is mitigated some by using 38spl standard or +P ammo since the 38spl case is shorter than the 357 magnum case."
Can you help me understand how a shorter case makes it easier? Do you mean that there's less contact area between the spent case and the cylinder that creates friction and resistance to extraction?
Also, it doesn't look like it's had too many rounds shot through it. Would I need to disassemble the crane and cylinder for a thorough cleaning?
Finally, would shooting gloves help mitigate any hand injuries from shooting .357 Magnum, such as stress fractures and thumb nerve damage*?
Thanks
* Jerry Miculek said that he had thumb nerve damage from shooting Scandium-frame S&W revolvers. However, I couldn't find anything about that condition from on-line medical sources.
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John Patrick
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The extractor rod pushed fired cases out of the cylinder's charge holes. The short rods aren't long enough to push fired cases completely out of the charge holes. Since the extractor pushes at the rim, the shorter the case the less length of case left in the charge hole to cause sticking.
A firm whack, or at least a quick and firm push on the extractor is good practice to give the cases some momentum to clear the charge holes. Holding the revolver "perfectly" vertical helps ensure extraction. Clean charge holes also help limit sticky cases.
You should remove the yoke and disassemble the cylinder. At least a wipe down is warranted due to the age. Lube very lightly as you reassemble.
You should remove the side plate and take a look inside. While it might not be dirty the lube might have turned to varnish or evaporated. Disassemble as required if you find the action dirty or see varnished lube; clean and very lightly lube pivot points and points of contact as you reassemble. If it's just dry, very lightly lube the contact areas and pivot points.
I have shot full power 357 out of a bud's Scandium J frame with titanium cylinder and out of my 386 Scandium and titanium PD and MountainLite. My 386 PD weighs 19oz and is brutal, for some reason the MountainLite isn't so bad. My bud's 12oz 340PD was in another league of suck. But shooting 357 out of a Scandium revolver is not something you're going to want to do a lot of. Your 649 weighs about 4oz more than my 386PD; that 4oz is significant.
I can't imagine willingly shooting enough 357 out of Scandium frame revolver to do nerve damage.
I have a 3" Model 60 J frame that weighs 24oz, about an ounce heavier than your 649. Full power 357 is unpleasant but at least I can keep all five together on a target. I can't keep more than 3 together with the PD.
Imo, practice how you're going to need to shoot in the real world. That means no glove. And also imo, practice with lighter recoiling standard pressure range ammo, shooting just enough of your carry load to not ever be surprised by the recoil.
FWIW, I prefer the stout Buffalo Bore 38spl +P in even my steel K frames.
Here's a recent target shot with my 386PD at 7 yards. The first three are in one hole, the remaining four started scattering.
A firm whack, or at least a quick and firm push on the extractor is good practice to give the cases some momentum to clear the charge holes. Holding the revolver "perfectly" vertical helps ensure extraction. Clean charge holes also help limit sticky cases.
You should remove the yoke and disassemble the cylinder. At least a wipe down is warranted due to the age. Lube very lightly as you reassemble.
You should remove the side plate and take a look inside. While it might not be dirty the lube might have turned to varnish or evaporated. Disassemble as required if you find the action dirty or see varnished lube; clean and very lightly lube pivot points and points of contact as you reassemble. If it's just dry, very lightly lube the contact areas and pivot points.
I have shot full power 357 out of a bud's Scandium J frame with titanium cylinder and out of my 386 Scandium and titanium PD and MountainLite. My 386 PD weighs 19oz and is brutal, for some reason the MountainLite isn't so bad. My bud's 12oz 340PD was in another league of suck. But shooting 357 out of a Scandium revolver is not something you're going to want to do a lot of. Your 649 weighs about 4oz more than my 386PD; that 4oz is significant.
I can't imagine willingly shooting enough 357 out of Scandium frame revolver to do nerve damage.
I have a 3" Model 60 J frame that weighs 24oz, about an ounce heavier than your 649. Full power 357 is unpleasant but at least I can keep all five together on a target. I can't keep more than 3 together with the PD.
Imo, practice how you're going to need to shoot in the real world. That means no glove. And also imo, practice with lighter recoiling standard pressure range ammo, shooting just enough of your carry load to not ever be surprised by the recoil.
FWIW, I prefer the stout Buffalo Bore 38spl +P in even my steel K frames.
Here's a recent target shot with my 386PD at 7 yards. The first three are in one hole, the remaining four started scattering.
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KurtC
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This particular revolver would be the absolute last choice I would recommend for a first 357.
The barrel is too short and the sights pretty much useless for target shooting.
The barrel ports and short extractor rod ruin it for defensive use.
The horrid recoil will always be there, unless you put oversize grips on it.
Sorry for coming to the party late, or I would have tried to talk you out of buying it.
The barrel is too short and the sights pretty much useless for target shooting.
The barrel ports and short extractor rod ruin it for defensive use.
The horrid recoil will always be there, unless you put oversize grips on it.
Sorry for coming to the party late, or I would have tried to talk you out of buying it.
photoman
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John Patrick
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Revolvers are like golf clubs. No one golf club is ideal, or even suitable, for every situation.
Your revolver isn't a putter, within the 38/357 platforms that would be more like a 340PD. Your revolver is not a sand wedge or pitching wedge, that would be more like my 638. Your revolver is like a 9 iron. My SS M60 is like an 9 iron.
A driver would be a 6" or 8" N frame.
A 1 or 2 iron might be a 3 1/2" N frame. A 3 or 4 iron might be a 3 or 4" L frame. A 5 iron might be a 4 or 6" K frame; a seven iron might be a 3" or 2 1/2" K frame….
Your revolver is great, for its purpose. But think of it within the golf club spectrum and realize it a 38spl that can shoot +P and 357.
As far as fixed sights… fixed sights are preferred by many for a self defense gun. And they are plenty accurate within and beyond self defense distances. You can change out the front sight for a glow in the dark night sight if you think necessary.
Bigger, heavier K and L frames are more fun at the range, that is indisputable, but they are much harder to carry, and that is also indisputable.
If your access to revolvers was unlimited, a 4" K frame in either 38spl or 357 is perhaps the ideal first revolver.
Your revolver isn't a putter, within the 38/357 platforms that would be more like a 340PD. Your revolver is not a sand wedge or pitching wedge, that would be more like my 638. Your revolver is like a 9 iron. My SS M60 is like an 9 iron.
A driver would be a 6" or 8" N frame.
A 1 or 2 iron might be a 3 1/2" N frame. A 3 or 4 iron might be a 3 or 4" L frame. A 5 iron might be a 4 or 6" K frame; a seven iron might be a 3" or 2 1/2" K frame….
Your revolver is great, for its purpose. But think of it within the golf club spectrum and realize it a 38spl that can shoot +P and 357.
As far as fixed sights… fixed sights are preferred by many for a self defense gun. And they are plenty accurate within and beyond self defense distances. You can change out the front sight for a glow in the dark night sight if you think necessary.
Bigger, heavier K and L frames are more fun at the range, that is indisputable, but they are much harder to carry, and that is also indisputable.
If your access to revolvers was unlimited, a 4" K frame in either 38spl or 357 is perhaps the ideal first revolver.
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John Patrick
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Google will help you with the golf analogy. But you can't have missed that every golfer has a bag full of different clubs.
Your revolver is an great carry revolver that would also do well as a home defense revolver.
Imo, there are better carry revolvers and better home defense revolvers, but yours is solidly suitable for both purposes.
And, with the right ammunition, like basic 38spl range ammo or target wadcutters, it will be fun at the range too.
KurtC
Member
3-4" barrel, adjustable sights, full size grip. If shooting a steady diet of 357, a Smith L frame or a Ruger.
Giants1
Great gun. 135 gr. Short barrel Speer rounds in 38 sp will do the trick. Really no need for 357's. Dry fire in double action using the laser. It will improve your shooting. If it has a lock I see no reason to remove it from the gun. This is a up close and personal gun and with a laser it will do nicely for home defense. If you can, get some instruction from someone who knows snubbie.
Ignore the naysayers. You have a really nice gun.
Great gun. 135 gr. Short barrel Speer rounds in 38 sp will do the trick. Really no need for 357's. Dry fire in double action using the laser. It will improve your shooting. If it has a lock I see no reason to remove it from the gun. This is a up close and personal gun and with a laser it will do nicely for home defense. If you can, get some instruction from someone who knows snubbie.
Ignore the naysayers. You have a really nice gun.
KurtC
Member
3" is rough, mostly because it is hard to find holsters. I haven't ankle carried for a good number of years, but this would be my choice today...
Ruger(R) SP101(R) Standard Double-Action Revolver Model 5720
Ankle carry is not easy for defensive purposes. I've used one during qualification, but as a backup, not a primary.
I currently use the 3" version in 9mm, but not on my ankle.
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Thanks.
I didn't make this clear in my initial post, but Lucky Gunner recommended getting a revolver, among other reasons, to improve trigger control, so that's one of my reasons for wanting a double-action revolver.
.357 and .38 SPL ammo has been REALLY hard to find until recently. Update: I just found Speer Gold Dot +P 135 grain for Snub Noses in stock and ordered three at $38.99 for a box of 20! (Massad Ayoob recommends and uses when carries a revolver, I believe a S&W 340PD). It seems expensive; is that a normal price for that ammo?
I also recently found and bought .38 SPL and .357 Magnum Hornady Critical Defense FTX JHPs.
My Crimson Trace Laser Grip is model LG-105, which uses a .028/.029 hex wrench, per Crimson Trace's personal communication (they didn't offer me a free one). I don't quite understand that size, so are there alternatives to the Crimson Trace hex wrench? If so, what does that .028/.029 correspond to, say in metric or Imperial measurements?
I've read from several sources that cops, esp. NYPD, prefer revolvers in ankle holsters as their back-up guns, so I'm confused.
Where do you carry your 3" Ruger?
About the Ruger SP101, I actually go to dry-fire it at the big box LGS a couple months back. I just HATED the trigger, and that's a first for me of all the guns I've ever fired or owned (heck, I can even tolerate Glock's triggers and double-actions on other revolvers I've tested are okay). The trigger pull on double action took forever for me.
Concerning the 3" .357 Magnum S&W revolvers recommended, should I get new or used? If used, what years and models would be good and those to avoid (I've heard mixed things about 1960s-1980s quality of S&Ws)?
I didn't make this clear in my initial post, but Lucky Gunner recommended getting a revolver, among other reasons, to improve trigger control, so that's one of my reasons for wanting a double-action revolver.
.357 and .38 SPL ammo has been REALLY hard to find until recently. Update: I just found Speer Gold Dot +P 135 grain for Snub Noses in stock and ordered three at $38.99 for a box of 20! (Massad Ayoob recommends and uses when carries a revolver, I believe a S&W 340PD). It seems expensive; is that a normal price for that ammo?
I also recently found and bought .38 SPL and .357 Magnum Hornady Critical Defense FTX JHPs.
My Crimson Trace Laser Grip is model LG-105, which uses a .028/.029 hex wrench, per Crimson Trace's personal communication (they didn't offer me a free one). I don't quite understand that size, so are there alternatives to the Crimson Trace hex wrench? If so, what does that .028/.029 correspond to, say in metric or Imperial measurements?
I've read from several sources that cops, esp. NYPD, prefer revolvers in ankle holsters as their back-up guns, so I'm confused.
Where do you carry your 3" Ruger?
About the Ruger SP101, I actually go to dry-fire it at the big box LGS a couple months back. I just HATED the trigger, and that's a first for me of all the guns I've ever fired or owned (heck, I can even tolerate Glock's triggers and double-actions on other revolvers I've tested are okay). The trigger pull on double action took forever for me.
Concerning the 3" .357 Magnum S&W revolvers recommended, should I get new or used? If used, what years and models would be good and those to avoid (I've heard mixed things about 1960s-1980s quality of S&Ws)?
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KurtC
Member
I only carry DAO pistols and revolvers. I like long, heavy triggers for liability reasons. I've also been shooting them exclusively for 35 years. Once you've mastered them, you can shoot just about anything.
This is just about the best holster for a DAO revolver.
Kramer Leather - MSP Paddle Gun Holster
This is just about the best holster for a DAO revolver.
Kramer Leather - MSP Paddle Gun Holster
John Patrick
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On improving trigger control: Beware that when you shoot semi autos you seek to make follow on shots the instant you feel trigger reset. With a revolver you need a complete release. When shooting revolvers, if you begin your follow on shot at the first "click" during trigger return you will tie up the revolver.
The only revolvers better for ankle carry than yours might be the alloy version of your J frame or Colt's alloy snubbies.
A 3" K frame is a belt holster gun. A 2 1/2 - 4" K frame weighs around 32 ounces. That's a little more than 1/2 pound more than your 649, or about 33% more. A similar steel L frame weighs several ounces more than a K frame.
ETA: See the photo below for a size comparison between a 19oz 2 1/2" Scandium L frame and my 24oz 3" M60 J frame. A K frame is slightly smaller than an L frame.
The only revolvers better for ankle carry than yours might be the alloy version of your J frame or Colt's alloy snubbies.
A 3" K frame is a belt holster gun. A 2 1/2 - 4" K frame weighs around 32 ounces. That's a little more than 1/2 pound more than your 649, or about 33% more. A similar steel L frame weighs several ounces more than a K frame.
ETA: See the photo below for a size comparison between a 19oz 2 1/2" Scandium L frame and my 24oz 3" M60 J frame. A K frame is slightly smaller than an L frame.
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photoman
Member
I recommended a 3" 686 Plus but that's definitely (!) not an ankle gun and not even a good choice for every day carry gun (in my opinion too heavy).
You have to define the mission. If this is going to be a concealed carry self defense gun, the Model 36 with 148gr wadcutters is a good place to start. If you can afford it, get an older version as it will have a better trigger. Another option is to send it in to the S&W Performance Center and they can tune the action which will make it much easier to shoot well double action.
The best thing you can do to insure success with learning double action revolvers is getting one with a good double action and not using ammo that is too powerful. Good grips are important too so be sure to experiment with different ones to see which is best for you.
You have to define the mission. If this is going to be a concealed carry self defense gun, the Model 36 with 148gr wadcutters is a good place to start. If you can afford it, get an older version as it will have a better trigger. Another option is to send it in to the S&W Performance Center and they can tune the action which will make it much easier to shoot well double action.
The best thing you can do to insure success with learning double action revolvers is getting one with a good double action and not using ammo that is too powerful. Good grips are important too so be sure to experiment with different ones to see which is best for you.
I must be missing something?
Is there Something other than a Revolver?
Maybe this is giants1 First Handgun.
Anyway; I welcome giants1 to the wonderful World of Revolvers!
Is there Something other than a Revolver?
Maybe this is giants1 First Handgun.
Anyway; I welcome giants1 to the wonderful World of Revolvers!
KurtC
Member
Nothing is practical for appendix carry. Having a muzzle pointed at your femoral artery is not the best idea.
I was never a fan of IWB carry. If you go that route, make sure it is a quality holster that stays open with the handgun removed. You need to be able to reholster with one hand, without looking.
John Patrick
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A 36 vs your 649… the only difference is your revolver's hammer is shrouded, making it more ideal for concealed carry. And the 36 is 38spl +P, not 357.
Your revolver is ideal for AIWB carry. There are many holster options, but a holster with the belt retention device (clip, loops, etc.) offset from the cylinder is a great choice.
A holster that isn't stiff enough for re-holstering is still fine - just remove the holster, re-holster the gun and put the holster back on.
A 3" J frame is fine AIWB, and great for IWB too.
Your revolver is ideal for AIWB carry. There are many holster options, but a holster with the belt retention device (clip, loops, etc.) offset from the cylinder is a great choice.
A holster that isn't stiff enough for re-holstering is still fine - just remove the holster, re-holster the gun and put the holster back on.
A 3" J frame is fine AIWB, and great for IWB too.
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