Let them go DA with a Merwin Hulbert.
Actually, for as long as its six shots last, a Ruger Old Army percussion SA is a lot more gun than most of the smaller modern pocket handguns.
New LEO Service Revolver
- Thread starter sjs
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Actually, for as long as its six shots last, a Ruger Old Army percussion SA is a lot more gun than most of the smaller modern pocket handguns.
That's an interesting take. I always thought for police work a shroud would be better in case something happens in a struggle and the ejector rod gets bent and then the cylinder won't rotate. That isn't as likely with the shroud.
transit
Member
Agreed. I think the shrouds become far more about the look than the function.
Once you get past that, you like the old school much better.
At the time, I seriously preferred my (Gen 2) '73 Colt Detective Special.
Today?
After carrying guns for decades, I'd take my buddies' "Noir" '32 in a heartbeat.
mscampbell2734
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I've got to disagree with this line of thought. The only way dirt/debris could get into the groove of a enclosed ejection rod housing would be to drop the gun while the cylinder is out. A truly unlikely occurrence.
What a enclosed housing DOES is protect the ejection rod in the event the barrel is used as a sap, which back in the heyday of the revolver at my department WAS a not uncommon occurrence. Extra heavy barrels were routinely fitted both for accuracy, we shot out to 50 yards, but also for a little more muzzle weight when "persuading" an uncooperative suspect into cuffs.
riverrat38
US Veteran
When Bill Jorden was discussing the design of the new M19 with S&W engineers, he suggested making the trigger guard stronger in case someone "accidentally" bumped their head on it.
73,
Rick
Darkenfast
Member
Okay, let me ask this: does anyone know of a case where an ejector rod on a Smith and Wesson (or other design that had the muzzle end of the rod secured the way S&Ws do), was bent enough, while the cylinder was closed, to render the gun unusable? You would have to be REALLY unlucky, because of the angle between the forward end of the frame and the barrel.
s2harry
Member
...But if you happen to be Senior Airman Andrew Brown, and have to take a headshot on a guy with a rifle at 70 yards, and you only have your pistol, sights come in handy. He hit a dude armed with a MAK-90 at 70 yards between the eyes with his M9.
This story is even more amazing in that Senior Airman Brown was on a bicycle patrol and peddled a quarter of a mile to the scene before confronting the gunman. He also hit the gunman in the shoulder as well as between the eyes.
Meanwhile, Senior Airman Andrew P. Brown, age 25, with the 92nd Air Force Security Police Squadron, was patrolling the base's housing areas on a bicycle when he received an emergency call on his two-way radio. He pedaled a quarter-mile to the scene and, while still some 70 yards away, spotted Mellberg shooting at scores of panic-stricken people in the parking lot.
Brown ditched his bicycle and ordered the gunman to drop his weapon. When Mellberg turned and shot at him, Brown dropped into a combat crouch and returned fire with his 9mm Beretta M9 semiautomatic pistol. He fired four rounds at Mellberg; two missed, one hit him in the shoulder and one struck him between the eyes, instantly ending his homicidal rampage. The drum magazine in Mellberg's MAK-90 still held 19 rounds of ammunition
Round butt works fine
If a 8 shot L Frame is a choice, the round but grips will work for smaller hands
If a 8 shot L Frame is a choice, the round but grips will work for smaller hands
s2harry
Member
UHH yes old thread.. "IF" there is room since your only shooting 38s can they make an 8 shot out of a 686 Plus? You guys get your stuff and start measuring...
ShivasIrons
Member
I would carry a 686+ on duty and not have any concerns about being under gunned.
I used to catch a lot of grief, but I would tell our firearms guys that a revolver has a lot going for it as a duty weapon. Nowadays a vast majority of the time the recruits coming into the academy have never handled a weapon. It is easier to get someone up to speed on a revolver than it is an auto IMHO.
I used to catch a lot of grief, but I would tell our firearms guys that a revolver has a lot going for it as a duty weapon. Nowadays a vast majority of the time the recruits coming into the academy have never handled a weapon. It is easier to get someone up to speed on a revolver than it is an auto IMHO.
Model 15-4ever
Member
This is a great thread. You can tell who was in LE from the responses in this thread. Those who carried guns for 8-18 hours a day for years, mostly picked K frame guns with fixed sights. Enthusiasts who do more shooting than carrying picked heavy barrel, large frame guns with adjustable sights.
I was issued the Model 13-3 3" round butt in 1986 at the FBI Academy. Ammo was .38 Special +P 158 SWCHP, manufacturer depended on contract and inventory. Stock grips and Pachmayr grip adapter. At the same time, DEA was issuing the Model 65 3" round butt, with Pachmayr Compact grips.
Older agents were issued the Model 10-5 and 10-7 4" pencil barrel, with square butt service grips that were rounded on the bottom for better concealment (NYPD did the same with their Model 10 4" HB). Those revolvers were great shooters!
For a very short time, a special run Model 10 with 2-1/2" heavy barrel and fixed sights was issued. They were not successful for a variety of reasons, and I only saw three of them in my entire career, out of hundreds of issue revolvers. The qualification course back then started with 50 yard shooting, and the short barrel was something of a handicap, since 20% of the rounds were fired at 50 yards!
After my issue 13-3 broke 3 hammer noses within a year (twice at the Academy, and once during quarterly qualification), I figured something was dimensionally off on that specimen, and turned it in and used my own guns from then on.
I carried a variety of personally owned revolvers for the next 10 years. My big gun was a 4" Model 27-2, which shot very well with the issue .357 Magnum 145 STHP and Winchester 158 JSP. This required a jacket to conceal and it was lot of iron to pack except when working alone or doing raids, arrests, etc. I used a pancake holster that covered the sides of the rear sight. With the skinny barrel it was a fairy fast draw out of the holster - for a young Agent with plenty of shoulder flexibility. Grips were difficult as the square butt service grips were not rounded, so I used Pachmayr Grippers which were thinner.
My smaller carry was Model 19 2-1/2", which was much better when trouble wasn't particularly expected. Loaded that with the issue .38 Special ammo, which reloaded easier with the short ejector rod. Stock grips with a Pachmayr grip adapter (miss those!). Used the issue style Bucheimer thumb-break high ride holster, with slotted front. It covered the rear sight well.
Backup and off-duty was either a Model 36-7, 649 or 640. I liked the 649 the best. Stock grips and a Pachmayr grip adapter. The original issue 158 SWCHP was a kicker in those guns. The later issue Federal .38 Special +P+ 147 HS shot much better.
I tried a couple of L frames - 4" 586 and a 3" 686 - and hated them. They were a slow draw from a concealment holster with the heavy barrel and full length ejector shroud profile. Not much lighter than the N frame Model 27 either. Perhaps better in a duty-rig style holster.
After 1989, my main gun was an autopistol. Started with a S&W 459, but as soon as .45 was authorized I bought a S&W 645, as it was similar in size and power to the Model 27 .35num7 Mag. Carried that 645 for quite a few years until the Glockenspiel was issued.
Retired, I carry revolvers again frequently. My favorite is the Model 10 2" round butt. Fixed sights are no handicap, the actual sight picture is good. It hits point of aim at 50 yards and inside a 6" circle prone. The no-lock current 442 is also a favorite, although it doesn't shoot as well at 50 yards.
I was issued the Model 13-3 3" round butt in 1986 at the FBI Academy. Ammo was .38 Special +P 158 SWCHP, manufacturer depended on contract and inventory. Stock grips and Pachmayr grip adapter. At the same time, DEA was issuing the Model 65 3" round butt, with Pachmayr Compact grips.
Older agents were issued the Model 10-5 and 10-7 4" pencil barrel, with square butt service grips that were rounded on the bottom for better concealment (NYPD did the same with their Model 10 4" HB). Those revolvers were great shooters!
For a very short time, a special run Model 10 with 2-1/2" heavy barrel and fixed sights was issued. They were not successful for a variety of reasons, and I only saw three of them in my entire career, out of hundreds of issue revolvers. The qualification course back then started with 50 yard shooting, and the short barrel was something of a handicap, since 20% of the rounds were fired at 50 yards!
After my issue 13-3 broke 3 hammer noses within a year (twice at the Academy, and once during quarterly qualification), I figured something was dimensionally off on that specimen, and turned it in and used my own guns from then on.
I carried a variety of personally owned revolvers for the next 10 years. My big gun was a 4" Model 27-2, which shot very well with the issue .357 Magnum 145 STHP and Winchester 158 JSP. This required a jacket to conceal and it was lot of iron to pack except when working alone or doing raids, arrests, etc. I used a pancake holster that covered the sides of the rear sight. With the skinny barrel it was a fairy fast draw out of the holster - for a young Agent with plenty of shoulder flexibility. Grips were difficult as the square butt service grips were not rounded, so I used Pachmayr Grippers which were thinner.
My smaller carry was Model 19 2-1/2", which was much better when trouble wasn't particularly expected. Loaded that with the issue .38 Special ammo, which reloaded easier with the short ejector rod. Stock grips with a Pachmayr grip adapter (miss those!). Used the issue style Bucheimer thumb-break high ride holster, with slotted front. It covered the rear sight well.
Backup and off-duty was either a Model 36-7, 649 or 640. I liked the 649 the best. Stock grips and a Pachmayr grip adapter. The original issue 158 SWCHP was a kicker in those guns. The later issue Federal .38 Special +P+ 147 HS shot much better.
I tried a couple of L frames - 4" 586 and a 3" 686 - and hated them. They were a slow draw from a concealment holster with the heavy barrel and full length ejector shroud profile. Not much lighter than the N frame Model 27 either. Perhaps better in a duty-rig style holster.
After 1989, my main gun was an autopistol. Started with a S&W 459, but as soon as .45 was authorized I bought a S&W 645, as it was similar in size and power to the Model 27 .35num7 Mag. Carried that 645 for quite a few years until the Glockenspiel was issued.
Retired, I carry revolvers again frequently. My favorite is the Model 10 2" round butt. Fixed sights are no handicap, the actual sight picture is good. It hits point of aim at 50 yards and inside a 6" circle prone. The no-lock current 442 is also a favorite, although it doesn't shoot as well at 50 yards.
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texmex
Member
65 4 inch for uniform, 3 inch for plain clothes. Each officer would be issued a pair plus 4 speed loaders. They could choose how to wear them. One right hand, one left handed or one strong side, one cross draw.
Pretty much the same regulations I started with model 15 was the issued weapon, anything for a backup ( as long as it was concealed).Started with a 4" 29, after Serpico went to a Hi-power. Switched depts and was issued a 67, 49 for a back-up. Always loved my revolvers and never really felt under powered until the 80s when you stopped a car that had 5-6 gang members bail out. Finally had to fold and agree, loading on the run, in the dark, laying on your stomach, other combat advantages made me switch to an auto.
No reason to go beyond a model 67, fits everyone with grip changes, handles all the 38+p. you can throw at it. Round butt new models can have night sights at least. While fixed sight guns might be adequate, adjustable sights are a big advantage, in this case, night sighted, better sight picture during the day, way easier to make any sight changes due to vision, ammo, etc.
In all my years in the armory I replaced about an equal number of sights on Semi-autos and revolvers for accidental damage. The S/W rear sight with radiused edges and lower profile worked very well.
No reason to go beyond a model 67, fits everyone with grip changes, handles all the 38+p. you can throw at it. Round butt new models can have night sights at least. While fixed sight guns might be adequate, adjustable sights are a big advantage, in this case, night sighted, better sight picture during the day, way easier to make any sight changes due to vision, ammo, etc.
In all my years in the armory I replaced about an equal number of sights on Semi-autos and revolvers for accidental damage. The S/W rear sight with radiused edges and lower profile worked very well.
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elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
.38SuperMan
Member
I wouldn't trust my life to any gun with an internal lock. It's one more thing to go wrong.
No question, I'd buy 4.25" Colt Pythons and second choice 4.25" Colt King Cobra Targets. Both have glass smooth triggers out of the box, beautiful fit and finish, very accurate and no lock. For backup it would be either a 2"Colt Cobra or King Cobra. The night Cobra could be a good choice as well.
I own quite a few older Smiths and only one with a lock. I also own several new Colts and find the Colts have a good edge over the new Smiths, just my opinion. As far as older Smiths, pre lock, I feel the older Smiths and new Colts are pretty close. If Smith went back to the care and quality of the 70's and earlier, it would be a tossup.
I just bought my 2nd Python after looking at new Smiths. Simply on fit and finish the Colt wins hands down. I looked at several new 686's and none had acceptable finishes and the detail to workmanship just wasn't there. The Smiths look like they're produced by a company trying to cut corners. The Colts look and feel like they're made by a company taking pride in their product.
No question, I'd buy 4.25" Colt Pythons and second choice 4.25" Colt King Cobra Targets. Both have glass smooth triggers out of the box, beautiful fit and finish, very accurate and no lock. For backup it would be either a 2"Colt Cobra or King Cobra. The night Cobra could be a good choice as well.
I own quite a few older Smiths and only one with a lock. I also own several new Colts and find the Colts have a good edge over the new Smiths, just my opinion. As far as older Smiths, pre lock, I feel the older Smiths and new Colts are pretty close. If Smith went back to the care and quality of the 70's and earlier, it would be a tossup.
I just bought my 2nd Python after looking at new Smiths. Simply on fit and finish the Colt wins hands down. I looked at several new 686's and none had acceptable finishes and the detail to workmanship just wasn't there. The Smiths look like they're produced by a company trying to cut corners. The Colts look and feel like they're made by a company taking pride in their product.
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