New M&P Shield not accurate

[JMichaelTX]

Best technique to determine my optimum finger placement?

OK, I'm open to determining which finger placement works best for me.

Perhaps this should be obvious, but I don't like to make assumptions.
What is the best technique to determine my optimum finger placement?

How many shots with each placement to make an evaluation?
5? 10? more?

What distance to target should I use?
5 yd? 7 yd? other? (I like 7 yd).

I just got some really cool new targets that are 12 x 12 with 5 circles/bulls eyes.

We're looking mostly for accuracy (as opposed to precision), correct?
So I want the finger placement that does the best job of placing all of its shots centered around the target, right?
Do I assume correctly that grouping (precision) is not of concern at this point?

You guys with the real deep experience, please jump in and advise please.

My Target:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C88RT8I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00"]Amazon.com : 25 Pack - 12"x12" (5) Bullseye Splatter Target - Instantly See Your Shots Burst Bright Florescent Yellow Upon Impact! : Hunting Targets And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QwsvI43IL.@@AMEPARAM@@51QwsvI43IL[/ame]

 

[rojasj]

This:

See how the barrel/bore is lined up with my forearm?

Quality instruction is expensive. No doubt about it. Where do you live? I will be more than happy to help you.

I became an instructor because of what I saw all the time at the range. On the internet we hear guys talk all the time about shooting 2" groups at long distances. However, the targets I see a the range are rarely anywhere close to that. So, it is my goal to help in anyway I can. If you're near by, you're welcome at one of my classes.

PM Sent man...

 

[rojasj]

" shooting 2" groups at long distances" Heck, I'm happy when I punch a hole in the target. Forget raving about two inch groups.

 

[Bud33]

Two major points. Finger on the trigger correctly (Finger print on the trigger) and a good stance.
I always taught the following.
Take you usual stance in front of the target. Now close your eyes and bring the gun up to bare on the target. Open your eyes and note where you are pointing. now adjust your stance ,right or left, to where you are pointing at the target.
Try this two or three times and see if it doesn't help.
Low and left seems to be the norm for a new shield. It will improve!
Also, when the SHTF, all this becomes unimportant!!!!!

 

[RobzGuns]

OK, I'm open to determining which finger placement works best for me.

Perhaps this should be obvious, but I don't like to make assumptions.
What is the best technique to determine my optimum finger placement?

Dry Fire practice will show you which finger placement works best.
Select a point on the wall, focus on the front sight, watch to see if the front sight moves left or right of that point on the wall. If it's moving, your twisting the pistol during trigger press. Keep adjusting until the front sight stays on that

How many shots with each placement to make an evaluation? 5? 10? more?

1 - 5 shots between evaluation should do it.

What distance to target should I use?
5 yd? 7 yd? other? (I like 7 yd).

Whenever I buy a new pistol, I treat it like I'm brand new to shooting and start at 3yds and review ALL the basics (grip, trigger press, follow through, etc).
I STAY at 3yds until I'm satisfied with my accuracy and grouping. Once satisfied at 3yds, I move to 5yds and stay there until satisfied, then repeat at 7yds.
Basically, if you can't control it close in, shooting at longer distances won't tell you what you're doing wrong.

Many times, I only need to stay at 3yds for 1 or 2 mags... Same at 5yds.

 

[rojasj]

Dry Fire practice will show you which finger placement works best.
Select a point on the wall, focus on the front sight, watch to see if the front sight moves left or right of that point on the wall. If it's moving, your twisting the pistol during trigger press. Keep adjusting until the front sight stays on that


1 - 5 shots between evaluation should do it.


Whenever I buy a new pistol, I treat it like I'm brand new to shooting and start at 3yds and review ALL the basics (grip, trigger press, follow through, etc).
I STAY at 3yds until I'm satisfied with my accuracy and grouping. Once satisfied at 3yds, I move to 5yds and stay there until satisfied, then repeat at 7yds.
Basically, if you can't control it close in, shooting at longer distances won't tell you what you're doing wrong.

Many times, I only need to stay at 3yds for 1 or 2 mags... Same at 5yds.

I have to agree that starting close up with a new pistol is probably a good idea. It worked for me. I had my target out to five yards and I was surprised how much I was moving my Shield at even that close of a distance.

 

[Rastoff]

We're looking mostly for accuracy (as opposed to precision), correct?

This is an interesting question. The two can never really be separated. For defensive shooting a balance must be achieved. Not just a balance between accuracy and precision, but with everything you do.

To present an effective defense, three things need to be balanced when shooting is involved; Accuracy, Speed and Power, in that order.

Power is what you brought. When the chips are down, there is nothing you can do to increase power. So, choose the gun wisely.

Speed is necessary. If the shot is really slow, the bad guy will shoot you first or dodge your shot. So, some speed is necessary.

However, a fast miss gets us nothing. Therefore, accuracy is very important. A shot in the right place, even without the most power, will do the job. Many have successfully defended themselves with .22LR guns. It's all about where that bullet goes.

Work on accuracy first. Then become faster. Power will take care of itself.

OK, about accuracy vs precision. Can't really have one without the other. Precision means a small group. Alas, putting two bullets into the knee of the bad guy might be impressive, but it doesn't stop him and he can still shoot back.

We talk about 5 shots that, when averaged, represent the center of the target. Assume those 5 shots are all 5" from the center. The numbers tell us that is an accurate group if the size of the target is 50" across. Unfortunately, none of those stopped the threat. So, accuracy is important, but it's nothing without at least a little precision.

How much precision is necessary to be effective? A rapid, controlled pair that is about a fist size from each other is enough. Any further than that and you're shooting too fast. Any closer and you're shooting too slow. It's all about the balance.

 

[JMichaelTX]

This is an interesting question. The two can never really be separated. For defensive shooting a balance must be achieved. Not just a balance between accuracy and precision, but with everything you do.
. . ..

Thanks. I completely agree.

My comment was only for purposes of find my optimum trigger finger position.

I have now done that -- it's the middle of my finger pad.
Both my accuracy and precision was pretty good today after I settled that.
Even my one-handed shots were very decent.

My approach now is to become very good at head shots, and to shoot for the head first when the target is within 7yrds. I realize that goes against conventional wisdom. But that's a discussion for another thread, another day. I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I already have.

I'll start a new thread later.

 

[raynman83]

Dry-fire FTW

So I bought a 9mm Shield after reading extensively about it's "accuracy" issues(circa 2012 there might have been some real ones), and figured worst case scenario I'd end up sending it to get it fixed.

So I got mine, and took it to the range. I was very disappointed. The sights were dead on, but the accuracy was terrible. I did MORE research because I'd seen people that were much more pleased, and the answer kept coming up "dry-fire helps a lot." Of course I didn't think it could help THIS much. I've shot other pistols extensively and dry fire, while helping, isn't supposed to be some magic bullet.

So I spent one week dry firing 100 rounds every night. I paid close attention to how my trigger pull affected the weapon just as the trigger broke. I paid attention to where my finger was on the trigger, whether tip or knuckle. The trigger is not very crisp, and not very smooth.

The difference IMO was huge for only a week of dry fire. Once you get used to the trigger on this gun, it is very accurate. I attached a picture. The target on the right was me at 5 yards with the gun. The target on the left is a week later, at 7 yards. I apologize for not having a size comparison. But the bottom line is, I threw a LOT of fliers the first time I shot. I don't throw almost any of my shots now, and it's easy to keep in a fairly tight group.

I will be getting the trigger worked on eventually just because I would prefer a more clean, and slightly less heavy trigger. But overall I am very satisfied with the Shield. I will also continue to dry fire and see if my aim can increase as well. The booklet says the Shield can hold a 1.7" group at 7 yards. I cannot shoot that well. If anyone is considering this pistol, get one. In 9mm the felt recoil is low enough to still make this gun fun.

 

[Rastoff]

...and dry fire, while helping, isn't supposed to be some magic bullet.

The difference IMO was huge for only a week of dry fire.

If there is a "magic" bullet, it's dry practice. You've seen the effect.

I like the term "dry practice" better because it involves so much more than just pressing the trigger. It helps with sight alignment, sight picture, trigger control and even follow-through a little.

Excellent report.

The booklet says the Shield can hold a 1.7" group at 7 yards.

What booklet is that?

 

[JimmyCara]

Hi all,

This is my first post here. I purchased a new 9mm M&P Shield a week ago. I have been out to the range with it twice. I noticed that at about 7 yards out with 9mm 124 grain ammo it's accuracy is way off. It's shooting about a foot low and maybe three or four inches to the left. I shot both standing and off a bench rest. The sights seem to be very close to centered other than the rear sight being just a hair (and I do mean a hair) to the right. I shot my wife's 9mm Beretta PX4 Storm Compact and I can hit in the general area where I am aiming. Does this mean that there is an issue with my M&P Shield or is there something I'm not doing right?

I do agree that the trigger takes a bit more pull than my wife's PX4 Storm. However, that being said does anyone know of any sort of accuracy issue with the 9MM Shields that needs to be addressed by a trip back to S&W ?

My wife has been having issues on accuracy with her brand new shield 9mm it shoot high and kind of all over the place,but she tried shooting my berreta,walther PPQ and even my Taurus PT111 G2 all in 9mm and shoots close groups but when she tries the shield again is not accurate she has put down more than 300 rounds and still the gun seems to be all over the place but is usually high and left she shoots left hand and the Taurus PT 111 millennium G2 is the same size and has no issues with it anyone had a issue with this

 

[Shield9mm]

Mine is pretty accurate my guess is once it passes the break in period and the trigger pull gets smoother accuracy will improve. I have apex sear and striker block on mine for a 6lb trigger pull.

 

[Steved13]

best advice, I have found, is whichever way you're off, apply more pressure with your grip to that side...this will of course, cause equal pressure from the other side, to keep the gun straight, but the focus on the failing side might help keep her from pushing. She probably just automatically grips the other guns better, and for some reason not doing it with her shield. If I start pushing left, I start applying more pressure with my thumbs and I'm right back again. Not so much that you start shaking, but enough that you are thinking about it.

 

[jbtrucker]

I was frustrated shooting my 9mm Shield at first and have improved after some training. My problem was finger placement , grip and not keeping wrist straight. The front sight on my pistol also slightly to the right but not off enough to be a problem on a close quarters weapon. Good luck with your Shield you made a good choice.

 

[mpshld9]

Practice some more Bud, you'll be surprised how accurate it gets!

 

[scooter123]

Just for hte heck of it I just did a google search for "low and left". Seven Hundred and 75 MILLION results. If there is a facet of handgun shooting more common than Low And Left I do not have a clue as to what it might be.

Boiled down it is a Push Flinch combined with too much finger on the trigger causing the gun to "pull" left when the trigger breaks. The solution is Practice, Practice, and More Practice.

 

[bloodlord77]

I had an issue with a fullsize M&P9 when I first purchased it. I'm a lefty, and I was shooting about 3 inches to the right at 10 yards. I changed the backstrap from small to medium to get some of my finger out of the trigger guard, and the problem was solved. I definitely think you have a trigger finger issue. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[jim46ok]

She might try concentrating on "Strong hand-weak hand" pressure. Firing hand being the "weak" hand. (2 hand grip, of course) Works for me.