Newbie question. 4 screw vs. 5 screw ?

[tanfl]

Please educate me as to what constitutes a 4 screw or 5 screw weapon and where are these screws. What time periods were each and what was the fifth screws purpose? Is one "better" than the other or just production changes? Are these differences found on all S&W frame sizes? Thanx

Rex

 

[P&R Fan]

The 5th screw is at the top of frame on the right side. It was dropped in 1955. The 4th screw is at the front of the trigger guard. It was dropped in 1961. They are all 3 screw now, all on the right side of frame.
None are really "better" than others, but collectors, like me, like the older stuff. All of them work fine as shooters. There's just something cool about the old ones.
Jim

 

[tanfl]

Thanks for the info. Jim . Over time I hope to learn the 'ins and outs' of these guns.
Rex

 

[4-Screw]

The 5th screw is at the top of frame on the right side. It was dropped in 1955. The 4th screw is at the front of the trigger guard. It was dropped in 1961. They are all 3 screw now, all on the right side of frame.
None are really "better" than others, but collectors, like me, like the older stuff. All of them work fine as shooters. There's just something cool about the old ones.
Jim

As P&R said...agreed, but there are still some variations. You might see a 5-screw in '56 and a 4-screw has been known to hang around past '61. Welcome.

 

[Hondo44]

A very complicated issue:

Screw numbering and screw count relative to frame designations:

1st rule: The K and N frame screw numbers and screw count are different from I and J frames.

Post war the I & Chief Baby J frames were all 5 screws; 4 screw sideplate and the 5th, the TG screw, i.e. 5 screw frames. The trigger guard screw is the 5th screw because it was eliminated first on these frame sizes with the introduction of the Model of 1953. So all I and Js became 4 screw guns after 1953. The 4th screw at the top of the side plate was eliminated next. So a 4 screw I and J frame has all four sideplate screws and can also be referred to as a 4 screw frame. Same with the 3 screw sideplate/frame.

A 5 screw K or N frame has 4 screw sideplates and a "4th" screw in the TG. Fourth because unlike the I and J it was not the 1st removed, it was 2nd c. 1960. The top sideplate screw was the first to be removed therefore it is the 5th screw.

So a 4 screw K or N frame has only 3 sideplate screws and the 4th in front of the trigger guard; again, the top sideplate screw, 5th screw, being the one eliminated first.

2nd rule: Always count the screw under the right grip because it isn't covered by the grip on most pre war models and early post war models up to around 1950. It’s a domed head screw when not covered by the original factory grips and a flat head when covered. In the early days of the Magna stocks, a relief dimple was drilled into the back side of the right stock panel to provide clearance for the round head screw before it was replaced with a flat head screw.

Exceptions:
1. Early K Airweight guns can be found with a "6th" screw or "bug" screw which is a lock screw for the top sideplate screw similar to premium shotguns.
Since I frame Airweights weren't introduced until after their Trigger Guard, the 5th screw, was already eliminated with the Model of 1953, their "bug" screw can be referred to as a 5th screw and are the only Mod 1953 "5 screw guns". (pic and link below)

2. The original K frames, .32-20 and .38 were 4 screw guns; all 4 sideplate screws but no trigger guard screw and became "5 screws" when that trigger guard screw was introduced on the 3rd Model M&P HEs (Models of 1905).

3. The new X frame 500 and 460s went back to 4 screws.

Note: I'm not aware of any sources that include the flat hammer spring tension screw in "the screw count" of frame designations. Personally I feel it only complicates an already confusing topic.