Not Happy!

[CO_Kid]

I think michiganscott might be correct in that S&W may say that everything is fine. Personally, instead of the company itself, I'd first call the law enforcement rep for your area since you're LE. He might be able to get the correct parts to you directly instead of shipping the whole gun.

 

[Rastoff]

...I'd first call the law enforcement rep for your area since you're LE. He might be able to get the correct parts to you directly instead of shipping the whole gun.

The OP is a certified armorer, he can get all the parts himself.



For all those that would be upset with this, let me ask a question: If you bought this gun, didn't know all the little details about these parts, and it shot fine, would you still be upset?

 

[curlysir]

The OP is a certified armorer, he can get all the parts himself.



For all those that would be upset with this, let me ask a question: If you bought this gun, didn't know all the little details about these parts, and it shot fine, would you still be upset?

Not until I got on the internet and forums like this and found out it did not have these parts -- Ignorance is Bliss --.

 

[Rastoff]

Not until I got on the internet and forums like this and found out it did not have these parts -- Ignorance is Bliss --.

Exactly! The M&P has been a good gun for a while now. I agree that these "upgrades" are an improvement, but not much. 99% of the M&P shooters out there would not notice the difference.

The difference between the S and H trigger bar is infinitesimal. The sear is the same amount of improvement. The biggest improvement is the slide stop, which the OP didn't even mention.

I say just go shoot it and be happy.

 

[CO_Kid]

The OP is a certified armorer, he can get all the parts himself.

Going through the LE rep is the easiest way for LE armorers to get the parts they need.

That being said, I agree with rastoff that if it is accurate and shoots well, I wouldn't care if it was made with "outdated" parts.

 

[rattlesnakedaddy]

My 9c was made in July 2012.

It shoots where I aim it.

It goes bang and cycles every time I pull the trigger.

Considering the fact that it doesn't have an "H" stamped anywhere (as far as I can tell), and seems to be quite old since made in 2012, should I be upset? ...[snip]... Please advise.

Yes, you must get rid of it because the internet says its wrong.

 

[shinbone]

I am with the OP on this one.

If I bought a new gun, I would want it to include all the latest design improvements. If I wanted an older design, as I do with many S&W revolvers, I would be on Gunbroker looking for a used gun.

And, if I did get a new gun with old parts, I would send it back to the manufacturer before firing a shot because I think I would have a better chance of getting satisfaction.

 

[Ofc.JL]

Rastoff; I like the M&P series guns. A lot. They fit my hand better than anything before or since. I also have always preferred S&W products over other brands for years. As far as the accuracy, I sand bagged both of my earlier pistols and tried several different brands of loads, nothing grouped. One pistol was better than the other, but both were poor, comparable to the genre. And understand, I purchased my 1st pistol when I was 14, that was 46 years ago. I shoot very well with just about anything a person can name or hand me. I have the awards to prove it.

As far as the difference between the older and newer M&P's, I happen to like the newer upgrades to the fire control parts. And I do know what to look for. What chaps my A** is the fact that a brand new M&P which by serial number was made Nov 04, 2015, has 3 year old parts. I have 2 other M&P's that have the updated fire control parts , with one of them being made in Aug of 2013! Older M&P's work just fine, other then the almost imperceivable trigger reset. Even a poorly set up 1911 has a better trigger/ sear reset. It happens to be what I like and what I prefer. Even S&W realized the problem and upgraded the M&P line starting around 2013. Just about the best thing they ever did to the M&P line, IMHO. I am currently working on getting S&W to send me the parts to upgrade the pistol myself, but there have been some snags. Even Armorers are now being encouraged to send the pistol back for factory work. Thank You Liability lawyers, you have screwed up more than you have ever fixed, trust me. I have calls into the LE guys and am waiting on return calls as we speak.
I will iron this out, or dump this fluke of a pistol and get another one. Understand All, this gun should have never left the factory, period. But S&W says "It shoots, correct?" and will not upgrade it if I send it in. Someone, somewhere, in assembly, either didn't pay attention to what they were doing, or more likely, the assemble branch found a batch of older parts sitting around and just put them in so as not to waste them. So, because of this lack of detail(The Devil is in the Details!), I now own a pistol that is essentially an older model gun that I can't upgrade. It just boogles my mind, knowing what I do about S&W. Like I said, this pistol should have been caught by QC, and never boxed and shipped.
Anyone want to know anything more, just ask.
Thanx Guys, for all the input.

 

[Horn]

You're Right

First off, Guys, I am a LEO armorer. And I am a S&W certified M&P armorer, as well. If you know what to look for, it easy to tell which gun is which. As far as checking before I took delivery, I did. 2 things about that. I did a cursory look at the trigger bar before I took delivery and I swore I saw the letter "H". I guess I am blind because it is the letter "S" instead. And I also was of the information that ALL M&P's in the last 1 1/2 - 2 years were the "H" model upgrade, so I assumed that's what I would get. The kicker to this is the "Build" date on this pistol is 11/03/2015. This pistol should have all the updates that S&W started to do to M&P's in 2013. I will absolutely return this pistol to S&W with a letter from me asking what has happened, and a request to fully upgrade the pistol to the new specification. I have a idea on how this happened, but it's a full tilt WAG on my part, and I won't go into it.

As far as how it shoots? Very probably just fine, but I will not bust a cap thru it until it is what it is supposed to be, or failing an upgrade, selling it.
My duty M&P was made in 2008 and it's fine. It has an APEX RAM in it and it rocks along. But it's a .40 and this new M&P is in 9mm.

BtW, A person cannot use an APEX RAM in an M&P that has the thumb safety sear block. No where to install it as S&W changed the sear block to accommodate the thumb safety itself.
Anyway, I will advise further when I know anything. Thanx, Guys.

I think you're right in not being satisfied with the pistol. Call CS and hopefully they'll email you the RMA with FedEx label and make it right. I suspect__they'll send you a new pistol
Just state on the phone and in the note with the pistol. "I can't carry this pistol and feel right about it." (That should tip the scale
for a new replacement)
Stay safe and G'luck!
Poli Viejo

 

[Rastoff]

Just state on the phone and in the note with the pistol. "I can't carry this pistol and feel right about it." (That should tip the scale
for a new replacement)

Yeah, that'll really make them step lively.

It happens to be what I like and what I prefer.

In the end, this is all that matters to any individual. If it's what you want, we can't tell you you're wrong.

Anyone want to know anything more, just ask.

My original question remains unanswered; how do you know the barrel is an old design?

 

[C4IGrant]

Just ordered a new M&P 9FS and you won't believe what I got. While the serial number on the gun and box match, this new M&P is a complete throw back pistol, inasmuch as it has all of the old style trigger and fire control parts, to include the old style barrel. Build date on the pistol, I believe is 11/2015. I was of the knowledge that all new M&P 9?40's for the last year+ are of the "H" trigger configuration.
***!
I contacted S&W and they said send it in for a check and possible upgrade, but I am so pissed I may not. I may just dump the dang thing and try again. But I am very much less than pleased, trust me.
This is the 3rd 9FS I have had, as my other 2 earlier guns just would not group worth a crud. Both were pre "H" model guns. The newer "H" series pistols are supposedly more accurate w/ newer barrels and upgraded triggers, and that's what I wanted.
I still do not understand what has happened, unless S&W had a bunch of new old stock guns they have just now packaged to sell. Underhanded stunt, AFAIAC! If so, bad on you S&W!

Since you are LE, you bought an LE gun correct? As an M&P LE Distributor, all of our M&P's are the latest version. So if you need another one, give us a call.


C4

 

[4506517]

I am big on sending things back that are not correct, if they are in fact not correct. You will want to (politely) explain what you expected, and why, knowing that there are no guarantees, as what is NIB can be made of new (maybe not new design) parts.

Given a careful and polite conversation, I would expect a good resolution. Given a demand, all bets are off.

Be precise, polite and explain, rather than demand / require.

This is perhaps the best post I have ever read on a discussion board.

Not only is this the best advice in regards to how to best resolve this issue, this is good advice for life in general.

Thank you.

 

[10ring]

just sing along....youll feel better.............

Just in the interest of accuracy, that song is by Bobby McFerrin. Bob Marley was long gone from this life when that song came out.

 

[S&W Rover]

As to the "older" barrel......this is the common mistake. The dimples have nothing to do with the twist rate. They simply denote which machine or process line they came from.

In my defense... I knew that slides have various numbers of dimples on the inside of them to denote which CNC machine they came from... they told me that during our tour of the S&W factory. But dimples didn't appear on barrels until fairly recently, around the time of the change in twist rates, and the internet is full of statements that the dimples indicate the new twist rate barrels. And tons of email posts on forum assert that this is so -- just Google it. So I repeated the story line, that the dimple or dimples on the bottom of the barrel indicate the new twist rate. But, it is not true! According to S&W itself, in response to my question to them just last week: "They let us know what CNC [machine] they were machined on."

So Rastoff is dead on the money about the dimples on the underside of the barrels!

 

[rsrocket1]

In all honesty, you bought a new M&P pistol and got an unused M&P pistol. S&W is obligated to fix or replace any part that is not working as specified by the product line. If you experience sear flutter, terrible accuracy, a broken slide lock, they will fix or replace it under their lifetime warranty. If you don't get a "better tactile reset", a newer 9mm barrel with more twists per inch, or a sear housing block with a bigger spring and it doesn't affect the performance of the gun, they are not obligated to "upgrade" anything.

I'm not saying that's good business practice. But if they choose to use old production line parts in a current production run, we have no legal recourse and they have no legal obligation. I wound up with an old sear housing block/trigger/slide lock with my gun and had the same thing happen to me when I bought a "replacement" trigger bar and slide lock from Brownells well after S&W started producing the newer parts. Fortunately, if you know what to order, some vendors are specifying "new parts" versus "you want a widget, you get a widget".

The only recourse we have is to say it's worth it to stay with S&W or take your business elsewhere.

 

[Ofc.JL]

I plan to stay w/ S&W, although no one there can tell me how this Charlie Foxtrot happened. And other than hoping that the barrel is of recent manufacture and should be of the newer twist rate, I have no way of knowing that for sure. This is the dilemma I have. A new manufactured pistol(Nov '15) with 3 year old lockwork parts in it. I am not sure what I now own, I tend to think I have a "Frakengun" built out of random parts from the Assy unit. At any rate, return to S&W is useless, as they will say "It Shoots" and that will be the end of the story. I just think that this pistol should have never left the factory and I am not real happy about getting an out of date product. If I had wanted an old style M&P, I would have shopped around and gotten one. Instead, I wanted an M&P with the correct upgrades that S&W started putting in the line 3 years ago, and I still got an "old" pistol built in Nov of 2015. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
But trust me, I will work it out, one way or another. Grant, I may give you a call. G&R, correct?

 

[S&W Rover]

I agree with the OP, too. S&W has improved the M&P with rolling changes over the years for good reasons. Most changes can be presumed to be about improving the pistol; a purchaser of a new gun is perfectly reasonable to expect the newest gun to have all of the improvements.

I'd be upset if I bought a new truck and found an engine from the previous model, no wifi, and maps from 2010 in the GPS. (That's a hypothetical -- my truck doesn't have wifi or a map display, but I didn't pay for them, either.)

I'm baffled by where S&W manages to find old parts...

If what happened to the OP had happened to me, I'd return the gun to S&W and ask for new parts to be installed, too -- or send me a new gun.

 

[TacticalReload]

Probably doesn't make the OP feel any better but my PC model made in the middle of last year still has the old slide stop lever. it does have the H trigger bar. The barrel has 1 dimple whatever that means. Oh, and it groups like 00 buck from a breacher barrel.

 

[rsrocket1]

Hate to ask this but since you ordered this and you knew what to look for, couldn't you have inspected it before accepting it? You would have seen everything you needed by just field stripping the gun. You would have seen the sharp angled barrel instead of the blended barrel, you would have seen the slide release with the protrusion on it and I think you would have seen the H type trigger bar.

It's too bad that S&W makes it a practice of putting anything in their guns that they happen to have in stock, but it's a reality. You could raise a stink with them but since you are a legitimate armorer, you should be able to get the parts us lowly civilians can't. The total cost of the parts you need to replace won't be very much and you can recoup most of it by simply selling them off.

 

[turbo38gn]

I plan to stay w/ S&W, although no one there can tell me how this Charlie Foxtrot happened. And other than hoping that the barrel is of recent manufacture and should be of the newer twist rate, I have no way of knowing that for sure. This is the dilemma I have. A new manufactured pistol(Nov '15) with 3 year old lockwork parts in it. I am not sure what I now own, I tend to think I have a "Frakengun" built out of random parts from the Assy unit. At any rate, return to S&W is useless, as they will say "It Shoots" and that will be the end of the story. I just think that this pistol should have never left the factory and I am not real happy about getting an out of date product. If I had wanted an old style M&P, I would have shopped around and gotten one. Instead, I wanted an M&P with the correct upgrades that S&W started putting in the line 3 years ago, and I still got an "old" pistol built in Nov of 2015. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
But trust me, I will work it out, one way or another. Grant, I may give you a call. G&R, correct?

I'll be happy to take it off your hands, since it is old parts and now a used gun.. for maybe $300.00 shipped.. and if you can throw in some ammo.. that would be good too..