Open carried the past 2 days

When you carry a gun, you represent not only yourself, but all gun owners. For that reason, we all must maintain the highest standards. Open carry brings negative attention to us and puts people into a panic over seeing a gun.

To me, the time for open carry would be on trails, camping, etc. the time for concealed carry....everywhere else.

I just do not think open carry helps our cause and firmly believe it hurts it.
 
Jaysq said:
When you carry a gun, you represent not only yourself, but all gun owners. For that reason, we all must maintain the highest standards. Open carry brings negative attention to us and puts people into a panic over seeing a gun.

To me, the time for open carry would be on trails, camping, etc. the time for concealed carry....everywhere else.

I just do not think open carry helps our cause and firmly believe it hurts it.
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I understand where you're coming from. But I do disagree. First, it is an assumption without evidence that Open Carry brings negative attention.

Second, the only extent to which it brings gun owners negative attention is that the public has a distorted perception of firearms. People use to 'panic' when they saw a black person in the 'whites only' section of the bus. That was wrong. People may 'panic' when they see a legally armed American, but that too, is wrong for them to panic. The negative attention is not due to the law abiding open carrier---he is doing nothing wrong. It is due to the fact that the public is misguided in how they SHOULD view legally armed Americans. If the public saw more upstanding citizens openly carrying firearms, they will start to learn that gun owners are good, hardworking, upstanding citizens in their community and that gun on their hip makes them no different from them.

Any negative attention due to a well-mannered American who is legally openly carrying is UNWARRENTED and prejudice. This, in my opinion, needs to change for gun owners. And the way to do this is not simply hide from it. We deserve the respect of the American public as gun owners.
 
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The majority of people these days, are not comfortable around guns. If you OC you will encounter woman, children and old people. Why make these people uncomfortable, when you can simply conceal carry, and go about your business. I wouldn't OC, unless I was hunting, or in the woods.
 
American1776 said:
I understand where you're coming from. But I do disagree. First, it is an assumption without evidence that Open Carry brings negative attention.

Second, the only extent to which it brings gun owners negative attention is that the public has a distorted perception of firearms. People use to 'panic' when they saw a black person in the 'whites only' section of the bus. That was wrong. People may 'panic' when they see a legally armed American, but that too, is wrong for them to panic. The negative attention is not due to the law abiding open carrier---he is doing nothing wrong. It is due to the fact that the public is misguided in how they SHOULD view legally armed Americans. If the public saw more upstanding citizens openly carrying firearms, they will start to learn that gun owners are good, hardworking, upstanding citizens in their community and that gun on their hip makes them no different from them.

Any negative attention due to a well-mannered American who is legally openly carrying is UNWARRENTED and prejudice. This, in my opinion, needs to change for gun owners. And the way to do this is not simply hide from it. We deserve the respect of the American public as gun owners.
Click to expand...

Regardless of my feelings, people are going to open carry and I do support their right to do that. You brought out a couple of points that I would like to see happen, such as changing the prejudice people have about gun owners. I grew up when owning a gun was not looked down on and most all of our presidents were NRA members. Somewhere along the way we became the"Gun Culture" and that really does need to change. Thanks for sharing your views, I enjoyed your post.
 
Irn-Bru said:
The majority of people these days, are not comfortable around guns. If you OC you will encounter woman, children and old people. Why make these people uncomfortable, when you can simply conceal carry, and go about your business. I wouldn't OC, unless I was hunting, or in the woods.
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Some people feel uncomfortable knowing that we simply own firearms. Why make them feel uncomfortable, when we can simply turn in our guns and be unarmed? Some people, women and children and even old people, felt uncomfortable seeing blacks sitting at the 'Whites only' lunch counter. Why make them feel uncomfortable when they could have just kept to the 'colored only' section and went about their business? This is obviously fatuous reasoning.

We are talking about our inalienable RIGHTS as human beings and Americans. People may feel uncomfortable about free Americans exercising their liberty, but their discomfort due to ignorance and bigotry is no reason to shirk from exercising our rights. Education is key.
 
American1776 said:
Some people feel uncomfortable knowing that we simply own firearms. Why make them feel uncomfortable, when we can simply turn in our guns and be unarmed? Some people, women and children and even old people, felt uncomfortable seeing blacks sitting at the 'Whites only' lunch counter. Why make them feel uncomfortable when they could have just kept to the 'colored only' section and went about their business? This is obviously fatuous reasoning.

We are talking about our inalienable RIGHTS as human beings and Americans. People may feel uncomfortable about free Americans exercising their liberty, but their discomfort due to ignorance and bigotry is no reason to shirk from exercising our rights. Education is key.
Click to expand...

People might feel uncomfortable knowing we own firearms, but they won't know unless we tell them, or OC. Just because we have a RIGHT to do something, doesn't mean we have to do it. Why draw attention open carrying, when you could simply conceal carry?

As for the blacks and white ****, I'm not even going to go there, it has feck all to do with open carrying.
 
S&W45Colt said:
I'm telling you I'm not going to go harass him simply for OCing. Watch him to see if he's a threat, yes. Shoot him as suggested above without him exhibiting threatening behavior, NO.

I never said OCing would not attract attention, I'm saying it's just not an instant problem with an all LE, if carried in an appropriate setting.
Click to expand...

You, Sir, are a true Patriot. I wish all LEO's were like you.
 
Irn-Bru said:
People might feel uncomfortable knowing we own firearms, but they won't know unless we tell them, or OC. Just because we have a RIGHT to do something, doesn't mean we have to do it. Why draw attention open carrying, when you could simply conceal carry?

As for the blacks and white ****, I'm not even going to go there, it has feck all to do with open carrying.
Click to expand...

All of these points you raise have my responses in my previous 3 posts.

'People might feel uncomfortable knowing we own firearms, but they won't know unless we tell them, or OC'. If you prefer to have to exercise your rights only in secrecy because the public, wielding their own hammer of tyranny, has an unjust prejudice against firearms, then you're welcome to live in secrecy. I prefer to work toward moral progress through education, toward a future where the public can view responsible firearm ownership in America without derision, bigotry, or suspicion. Secrecy is the last thing I want to promote.

'Just because we have a right to do something, doesn't mean we have to do it'. I agree with you on this 100 percent. I never said others have to OC, and I would never argue that others have to do anything other than respect the rights and liberty of others. I'm just asking that others do not tell me that I should not do that which I have a right to.

'Why draw attention open carrying, when you could simply conceal carry?' I answered this question in post 60. There are many reasons to Open Carry, some not having to do with 'attention', some having to do with promoting education.

'As for the blacks and white ****, I'm not even going to go there, it has feck all to do with open carrying'-- It has everything to do with open carrying INSOFAR as we are talking about inalienable human rights that we in America recognize. Our gun rights are about our civil rights as citizens; even if the exercise thereof might make some portion of the prejudiced population uncomfortable.
 
When you bring other peoples right, and race in to the argument, its not the same as open carrying. Gay people have the right to make out in public, and some do, but the majority don't do it because it might make some people uncomfortable.
I've been in the company of gay people, and I have no problem with this, but if two guys started making out in front of me, I'd feel uncomfortable. It IS there right to do so, but most respect society around them, and don't.
I don't feel like I'm excising my right in secrecy when I conceal carry. I choose to conceal carry because it makes my life easier. I don't get any unwanted attention, and make others feel uncomfortable. I think if people want to learn about firearms then great, but its not my place to try and educate, or promote guns.

It's a personal choice. I don't like to OC, and you do. Your views are not going to change, and neither will mine. I'm not saying your wrong, or I'm right, its just a personal choice, and those are my reasons why I won't do it.
 
Irn-Bru said:
...Gay people have the right to make out in public, and some do, but the majority don't do it because it might make some people uncomfortable...
Click to expand...

It likely makes the most people in the Castro district of San Francisco or in West Hollywood or Palm Springs, quite comfortable knowing that their community embraces their choice of "what's ok".

Likewise, open carry, in areas that promote and embrace it, is surely a much more comfortable situation than in places where it's not embraced.

In Arizona, a state where we fought hard and loud to promote open carry, it's simply not a "scare" issue. You open carry or you conceiled carry. Everyone simply assumes that a lot of people in the store/bank/restaurant with them are armed. And they WANT that, APPROVE of that, are PROUD of that.

It's simply all about what the local area is in favor of.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Your carrying a gun for self defense right? Urban area or not, if your open carrying you've sacrificed your one tactical advantage already.
The element of surprise.
The potential bad guy knows who you are, are you going to know who he is?
 
badge said:
I am in agreement with most of this post. If your an open carrier good for you. If you could carry concealed WHY DO IT? If I was intent on committing a crime and I saw an intepid open carrier,.. guese what? You take the first round and it's my studied opinion that Career criminals or Professional Armed Robbers would do just that. Y'all keep carrying in the open and hopefully the aforementioned will never befall you.
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Oh, good, you've "studied" it! Please provide evidence of open carriers "getting shot first". Please.

As far as why open carry, there's lots of reasons.

- It's more comfortable, especially in hot weather
- It shows gun owners in a good light
- It makes people aware of our gun rights (you'd be surprised by the number of conversations I have about open carry - most don't know it's legal)
- It's our right. Rights get used or they get lost - which do you want?

So what if it makes some metro-sexual pansy get his panties in a wad? The 2nd amendment doesn't say: "... shall not be infringed, unless it upsets irrational hoplophobes....".

If not you, who? If not now, when?
 
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shouldazagged said:
And around, and around, and around she goes, and where she stops apparently is never.
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Which is perfectly ok in my opinion...:)

When we were adolescents, we all WANTED to be different. We'd dress, talk, act different just for the sake of being different. As our geezer index increases, we all seem to want everyone else to be "just like me".


Sgt Lumpy
 
I guess my geezer index is high enough that I get tired more easily of the same old same old. Sorry about that. I have no desire to see everyone agree with me.
 
badge said:
I am in agreement with most of this post. If your an open carrier good for you. If you could carry concealed WHY DO IT? If I was intent on committing a crime and I saw an intepid open carrier,.. guese what? You take the first round and it's my studied opinion that Career criminals or Professional Armed Robbers would do just that. Y'all keep carrying in the open and hopefully the aforementioned will never befall you.
Click to expand...

I said in one of my posts I was not an OCer, but supported those who did.

Funny thing though, a lot of us with badges beside our names carried guns, badges etc and I didn't see whole lot of these dreaded BG's taking pot shots at us, most of time if they did, they were the ones getting the ride to the morgue.

Just a thought........
 
S&W45Colt said:
I said in one of my posts I was not an OCer, but supported those who did.

Funny thing though, a lot of us with badges beside our names carried guns, badges etc and I didn't see whole lot of these dreaded BG's taking pot shots at us, most of time if they did, they were the ones getting the ride to the morgue.

Just a thought........
Click to expand...

It's very refreshing to hear an LEO express support for law abiding Americans who choose to OC responsibility.

To say that 'bad guys will just shoot the OCer first', as if it is an established truth, is to ignore the value of actual empirical observation to see if it actually happens. And as you point out, LEO's OC everyday, and very very rarely get all those 'pot shots' that OCers are supposed to be subject to.

An explanation for this might be: criminals like easy prey. A guy with a 45 on his right hip practicing good SA is at the very bottom on the list of those who are easy prey.

The anti-gun crowd loves to use the argument, 'Concealed carry shouldn't be allowed because then criminals will just assume everyone is carrying and shoot their victims right from the start'. Well, we all know THAT hasn't happened. Why in the world would we think this would happen to OCers, especially since there's zero empirical evidence to back such a claim?
 
S&W45Colt said:
Funny thing though, a lot of us with badges beside our names carried guns, badges etc and I didn't see whole lot of these dreaded BG's taking pot shots at us,...
Click to expand...
There may be a misunderstanding here. At least for me, I wasn't talking about "pot shots" at anyone. The concept is more narrow.

If a bad guy goes into a place with intent to shoot, or at least eliminate potential threats, it's only logical that they would perceive anyone with a gun as a greater threat and therefore, shoot them first. In this situation, I say it's better to carry concealed.

I don't know of any cases, though I'm sure they exist, where people are just shooting at those who open carry.
 
i oc all the time i am an active member with michigan open carry. i have had only one instance when a best buy manger kicked me out for carrying, well i went above his head and called the district manager who told me they follow state laws as far as carrying firearms.

i have a CPL and only purpose it suits me is to allow me to carry in my truck without disarming and storing.

ive come to find in the past few years that many dont even notice you have a firearm on your hip, cc or oc.
 
Rastoff said:
...If a bad guy goes into a place with intent to shoot, or at least eliminate potential threats, it's only logical that they would perceive anyone with a gun as a greater threat and therefore, shoot them first. In this situation, I say it's better to carry concealed...
Click to expand...

Except for two or three instances per decade, bad guys don't go into a place "with intent to shoot". They go in to steal money or property.

I'm a thief. I have a choice of THIS convenience store or THAT convenience store. I look in one of them and see a guy open carrying. I look in the other one and don't see anyone open carrying. Which one do you suppose I'm going to rob?


5Sgt Lumpy
 
Alright, I've been reading this thread and thought I'd give my reason I prefer concealed over open carry.
I'm a Native American. I've got dark skin and long black hair. Apparently that's sufficient reason to be racially profiled as a drug trafficker by law enforcement.
When I lived in Virginia, I was rollerblading down a rail/trail on a hot sunny summer day. A Fairfax County cop stopped me, arrested me and accused me of being a drug trafficker. They found no drugs on me or in my car.
I was visiting my Mother in Virginia one day and I had my mountain bike that I had built from the frame up with me and I was riding it around the block, adjusting my new hydraulic rear rim brake. I was pulled over by 4 police cruisers on my bicycle. I had to sit and wait while they checked my ID.
Another time while visiting my mother, I was taking her trash down to the curb. A police cruiser pulls up and orders me to stop. Once again my ID's checked and I'm let go.
After we moved out here, I was hiking a trail that crossed over into Maryland. It was a hot summer day, I'm wearing hiking boots, shorts and no shirt. Here comes Ranger Rick harassing and checking my ID.
After being repeatedly harassed by law enforcement officers because of my skin color and racial heritage, I could just imagine how bad it'd be if I open carried.
Shoot first and ask questions later?
Now when I see a police officer coming in my direction, I wonder what he's going to harass me about or accuse me of this time?
No I don't dress like a gangsta wannabe. I wear properly fitting clothes. I do wear a beaded necklace with a handcarved bone arrowhead smudged and blessed by a Shawnee Holy man, tie my hair in a ponytail and sometimes I wear a silver tomahawk earring. I doubt if that makes me look like a drug lord.
Racial hatred and harassment acted out by those in authority because they can get away with it?
Whatever, my choice to carry concealed isn't based on any "tactical" advantage or disadvantage I may imagine I have but rather I'd prefer to not give law enforcement another reason to harass me.
I am fully aware that if I ever need to use my snubby to defend myself or my family that I'll be thoroughly and completely screwed.
 
Rastoff said:
There may be a misunderstanding here. At least for me, I wasn't talking about "pot shots" at anyone. The concept is more narrow.

If a bad guy goes into a place with intent to shoot, or at least eliminate potential threats, it's only logical that they would perceive anyone with a gun as a greater threat and therefore, shoot them first. In this situation, I say it's better to carry concealed.

I don't know of any cases, though I'm sure they exist, where people are just shooting at those who open carry.
Click to expand...

I was not aiming my comments at anyone in particular.

I personally subscribe to the have an "ace in the hole" theory, but don't begrudge people who OC.
 
American1776 said:
It's very refreshing to hear an LEO express support for law abiding Americans who choose to OC responsibility.

To say that 'bad guys will just shoot the OCer first', as if it is an established truth, is to ignore the value of actual empirical observation to see if it actually happens. And as you point out, LEO's OC everyday, and very very rarely get all those 'pot shots' that OCers are supposed to be subject to.

An explanation for this might be: criminals like easy prey. A guy with a 45 on his right hip practicing good SA is at the very bottom on the list of those who are easy prey.

The anti-gun crowd loves to use the argument, 'Concealed carry shouldn't be allowed because then criminals will just assume everyone is carrying and shoot their victims right from the start'. Well, we all know THAT hasn't happened. Why in the world would we think this would happen to OCers, especially since there's zero empirical evidence to back such a claim?
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm still waiting for the poster who stated that he "studied" the issue about OCers getting "shot first". Forgive me if you think I'm holding my breath!

:D

Carried my S&W 329PD to lunch today with my wife (yea!!!) at the local Ardmore KFC. Zero you-know-what's were given by the staff or clientele - as usual.
 
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