Open Carry?

[Ben_hutcherson]

If OC is legal where you live there's nothing I can do about it. I think it's stupid in a public

Going back to my above gas station example...

You think it's "stupid" for me to use the only legal means I have available of carrying a gun in a potentially dangerous situation?

Sorry, but I resent this sort of attitude from you and every other gun owner who has expressed it!

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I am new and read a lot of the replies in this thread. One thing that seems to be missing is the fact that OC is 1000 times more comfortable than CC, most of the time.

I OC about 80% of the time and carry OWB 100% of the time. I will never carry IWB. Just too uncomfortable.

Here in the Old Dominion of Virginia, OC is very normal. I run across several OCers every day. Nobody ever gives it a second thought. I live in the Norfolk / Va Beach area. Case in point, the other day I was in a grocery store checkout line with 2 OCers and 1 CCer plus myself.


I kinda wish reasonable thinking people would stop believing the interweb myths......
1. you will get hassled
2. you will be the first target
3. you are a brandishing charge waiting to happen

Thank you.

All that said..........I do think OC of long guns is for most part moronic and a severe hindrance to the gun rights movement.

Well, in Texas it is the only legal way to open carry. What the OC activists in Texas have done is get the ball rolling so the legislature will soon pass a handgun open carry law.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Sure, the Diane Feinsteins and Carolyn McCarthy's fit into that category. But there are MILLIONS of Americans who really don't spend a lot of time thinking about guns at all. And those are the people we turn off when we strut through a restaurant with a displayed weapon.

Do you normally strut? I don't. I hardly think that a properly holstered handgun is "displayed," either, unless you dress like a tinhorn with jinglebobs on your spurs, woolly chaps, and a pearl-handled six-gun in a tied-down buscadero holster. Those people you're worried about rarely notice someone carrying a holstered handgun.

Diane Feinstein once said "if I could have gotten the votes, mr and mrs America, turn them in". She couldn't get the votes because most Americans aren't that radical

That's right.

But when the idiots continue to show up to target [sic] with rifles over their backs, and 10 guys decide to sit at a table in a restaraunt [sic] with guns on their hips, and the losers on YouTube continue to walk around like idiots with their guns and cameras, those same disinterested people change their minds

The "idiots" (who were not breaking the law) have pretty much convinced the Texas legislature to pass a handgun open carry law. Ten guys sitting at a restaurant with guns on their hips doesn't seem to have any effect on folks hereabouts. I don't spend a lot of time "YouTub[ing]," so I can't comment on the content other than to say there seem to be a lot of idiots on YouTube and the vast majority of them don't have guns.

And it ain't to our side.

You remind me of my ex-brother-in-law who once tried to use the "I hunt, but I don't see why anyone needs an AK-47!" argument on me.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Do I walk in Houston into an art gallery with a open gun. No.

That's good because until the Texas legislature changes the law it would be illegal. If you have a handgun license in Texas, you can come to Oklahoma and open carry into most places. Shoot, in Tulsa Chipotles even kicked the Mothers Demand Action out of the restaurant because they were harassing open carriers!

 

[kbm6893]

Going back to my above gas station example...

You think it's "stupid" for me to use the only legal means I have available of carrying a gun in a potentially dangerous situation?

Sorry, but I resent this sort of attitude from you and every other gun owner who has expressed it!

No I don't. But OC is not the only legal way for you to carry. You just choose not to go through the process of getting a ccw. That's your choice but you're not being entirely truthful. You work every day all day? Never take a day off? I work 2 jobs and have kids to boot. I found the time to et my ccw and I live in an OC state. Still rarely see it.

But your not breaking any laws so have at it.

 

[kbm6893]

Do you normally strut? I don't. I hardly think that a properly holstered handgun is "displayed," either, unless you dress like a tinhorn with jinglebobs on your spurs, woolly chaps, and a pearl-handled six-gun in a tied-down buscadero holster. Those people you're worried about rarely notice someone carrying a holstered handgun.



That's right.



The "idiots" (who were not breaking the law) have pretty much convinced the Texas legislature to pass a handgun open carry law. Ten guys sitting at a restaurant with guns on their hips doesn't seem to have any effect on folks hereabouts. I don't spend a lot of time "YouTub[ing]," so I can't comment on the content other than to say there seem to be a lot of idiots on YouTube and the vast majority of them don't have guns.



You remind me of my ex-brother-in-law who once tried to use the "I hunt, but I don't see why anyone needs an AK-47!" argument on me.

Funny. The first thing I see is the gun. As for your bro in law, ak's aren't used for hunting so his comment is dumb

 

[kbm6893]

Do you normally strut? I don't. I hardly think that a properly holstered handgun is "displayed," either, unless you dress like a tinhorn with jinglebobs on your spurs, woolly chaps, and a pearl-handled six-gun in a tied-down buscadero holster. Those people you're worried about rarely notice someone carrying a holstered handgun.



That's right.



The "idiots" (who were not breaking the law) have pretty much convinced the Texas legislature to pass a handgun open carry law. Ten guys sitting at a restaurant with guns on their hips doesn't seem to have any effect on folks hereabouts. I don't spend a lot of time "YouTub[ing]," so I can't comment on the content other than to say there seem to be a lot of idiots on YouTube and the vast majority of them don't have guns.



You remind me of my ex-brother-in-law who once tried to use the "I hunt, but I don't see why anyone needs an AK-47!" argument on me.

And burning an American flag and the protesters outside military funerals aren't breaking the law either. You support them too?

How anybody could support those Target morons is beyond me. So they forced he Texas legislature to pass OC of handguns. Good for them. Now they can hang up their AR's and strap on their glocks.

 

[keith44spl]

Here's just a brief anecdote with some back story:

As Dave mentions, here in the Commonwealth open carry has been legal for a really long time(since before statehood). It is a right specifically protected by the constitution, and before our concealed carry law was passed in 1996, it was the only legal method of carry. Even 18 years later, open carry remains the only legal form of carry in certain situations. There is an old supreme court case in Kentucky(1930s) that states something to the effect that no one may question the intentions of a person wearing a visible gun(with the implication being that only criminals conceal).

.

Sir,

You are correct. No one, private citizen or law enforcement can question an individual as to why one is
carrying a firearm openly in a public or private place not prohibited by law.

I know this, as I am currently a Detective for the Commonwealth's Attorneys Office.

Oh, btw, I'm also a State CCDW instructor with the Dept. of Criminal Justice Training.

Open Carry in the Commonwealth of Kentucky is an unalienable right recognized by the state constitution.
Concealed carry is a purchased privilege.

Not everyone feels the need to participate in the CCDW program,
so lawful open carry is convenient and widely accepted through the Bluegrass.


Thank You for Supporting Open Carry






.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893


As for OC not being legal in Texas for handguns,
I didn't know that and was shocked. Texas being such a gun friendly state and all.

As for Texas,

It is unlawful to open carry with out a special commission of some type.

Money will purchase state required training for a CHL....
Money may also get one a special commission....
It's just the way it works.

Originally Posted by kbm6893
If OC is legal where you live there's nothing I can do about it.

Thank You for your validation there....And we're damn proud of it.


P.S.

Who was that guy on that other thread , the one about some young person open carrying at a hardware er somewheres...

The guy behind him didn't like it, and thought he was dumb or had a speech inpediment or some such.

And then the poster said, he wears a shirt that sez, 'Kill bad guys today like a champion' or something like that.

Make me thing a case one time where a guy made some comment or
wore a like printed tee shirt... was entered into evidence as a spontaneous utterance...
As it was construed as being premeditated. Ya know thinking it was like a calling or something.


.

 

[ladder13]

AR's,AK's, M1A's, SKS's, Mosins,Enfields , M1's, etc etc etc are absolutely used for hunting.

 

[ladder13]

How someone who once took an oath to support and defend the Constitution,assuming he didn't just mouth those words for a pension, and disavows that now is stunning.

 

[kbm6893]

Sir,

You are correct. No one, private citizen or law enforcement can question an individual as to why one is
carrying a firearm openly in a public or private place not prohibited by law.

I know this, as I am currently a Detective for the Commonwealth's Attorneys Office.

Oh, btw, I'm also a State CCDW instructor with the Dept. of Criminal Justice Training.

Open Carry in the Commonwealth of Kentucky is an unalienable right recognized by the state constitution.
Concealed carry is a purchased privilege.

Not everyone feels the need to participate in the CCDW program,
so lawful open carry is convenient and widely accepted through the Bluegrass.


Thank You for Supporting Open Carry






.






As for Texas,

It is unlawful to open carry with out a special commission of some type.

Money will purchase state required training for a CHL....
Money may also get one a special commission....
It's just the way it works.





Thank You for your validation there....And we're damn proud of it.


P.S.

Who was that guy on that other thread , the one about some young person open carrying at a hardware er somewheres...

The guy behind him didn't like it, and thought he was dumb or had a speech inpediment or some such.

And then the poster said, he wears a shirt that sez, 'Kill bad guys today like a champion' or something like that.

Make me thing a case one time where a guy made some comment or
wore a like printed tee shirt... was entered into evidence as a spontaneous utterance...
As it was construed as being premeditated. Ya know thinking it was like a calling or something.


.

I was the one who saw the OC guy at a Home Depot. He was obviously mentally retarded. It wasn't a speech impediment. And yeah, I think that's a bad idea. Don't know anything about a t-shirt though.

 

[kbm6893]

How someone who once took an oath to support and defend the Constitution,assuming he didn't just mouth those words for a pension, and disavows that now is stunning.

You have any proof I violated my oath? Lots of laws I don't agree with. I enforced the law, not my opinions. I worked in NY, so no open carry issues there. If it had been legal, I would have felt the same way about it as I do now.

If OC is your ONLY option then I see the validity. I think owning a gun is an absolute right and ccw should be legal in ALL 50 states with reciprocity between states.

Last post in this, and one that OC people will dismiss. If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun (and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing? If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?

And before I get the whole "how often does that happen?" My answer is I don't know. And neither do you.

 

[ladder13]

NO permit needed OC state

You; are you a felon?
Me: No

You: Can I see some ID?
Me: No. Am I free to go?

 

[elm_creek_smith]

And burning an American flag and the protesters outside military funerals aren't breaking the law either. You support them too?

I don't support them, but I defend their right to do so. Has something to do with an oath I took to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

How anybody could support those Target morons is beyond me.

Demonstratio absurdum.

So they forced he Texas legislature to pass OC of handguns. Good for them. Now they can hang up their AR's and strap on their glocks.

Not quite yet, but it's coming. And why do you care? If you don't want to open carry, don't.

 

[The Big D]

Kentucky loves felons?

A very good question...sure hope a KY LEO can answer and reply.

Be safe.

...
Last post in this, and one that OC people will dismiss. If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun (and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing? If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?...

 

[Bundesheer]

kbm6893
If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun (and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing? If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?

Good question. I drive openly a car and even if you can see me you need a cause to stop me.
You just cannot ask me why I drive a full size Tahoe and not an Aveo because I drive alone.
I'm a citizen of the nice and friendly state of Texas, but no one can stop me and ask me if I am documented or undocumented in the US.
I have a dog on my yard but no one can enter my home and ask me why I have this dog and not a brown one.

Seeing a weapon is not dangerous. What is the danger on a weapon carried by a law obeying citizen?
As a police officer you should know how easy it is to buy a illegal weapon in any given city in the US. At the Greyhound Station 8:00 pm. I was asked several times to by a illegal automatic weapon for low money incl. ammo. That is the danger and not a M&P 9 shield on a law obeying citizen belt.

We have enough gun control laws throughout the US. A police officer should know that. We don't need more laws. What we need is law enforcement. Politically correct is only the law obeying gun owner evil. I don't hear in politics or media any approach to illegal or unlawful gun problems. Politically and in the media such problems does not even exist. Or did anyone even hear something about illegal weapons and crime?

What next.
Will the police stop me an any given time and ask me why I own a Impala and not an Aveo like in other communistic countries around the globe?
Will the police stop me and ask me for my permit to travel or visit my grandma on Saturday morning?
When will the police come and ask me why I have a black dog and not a brown one?

A police officer should know
A) Political Corruption harms and kills more people than weapons can.
B) A Car harms and kills people in the millions every year.
C) Cars are used as weapon and heavenly to commit any given crime in the book.

When does anyone start to request better corruption laws?
When does anyone start to request better car laws.

 

[keith44spl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
...
Last post in this, and one that OC people will dismiss. If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun (and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing? If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?...

A very good question...sure hope a KY LEO can answer and reply.

Be safe.

We all know the criteria for a 'Terry Stop' ....


In the Commonwealth of Kentucky,

The open carrying of a firearm in and of it's self,
would not constitute probable cause for a field interview
in the absents of any criminal activity in or adjacent to the immediate area of contact.

The sole fact of a person, an adult (18 years of age or older) who
openly possesses a firearm does not constitute a criminal offense.

And therefore person(s) of the Commonwealth are not subject to any type of unlawful and
questionable 'stop and frisk' activities of law enforcement in over reach states.

Boys,

If there has been a violation of statute, and a lawful contact is made,
of course an officer may, request identification, pat down the
outside of a subject's clothing (for officer safety) firearms or
other weapons may be removed by the officer, until which
time the contact is completed or an arrest is made.

So in closing, an officer, one that opposes open carry,
can't use his authority under the color of law or statute to harass or
impede person or persons that are lawfully possessing a firearm(s).


Gees, it got something to do with that pesky lit'l 4th amendment,
and personal property and papers and all such as that.......


.

 

[The Big D]

That's much better!

Various posts seemed to imply those OC-ing were somehow immune from questioning and KY law somehow overrode the well-settled 'Terry.'

Keith has cleared that up; thanks for the clarification.

Be safe.

We all know the criteria for a 'Terry Stop' ....


In the Commonwealth of Kentucky,

The open carrying of a firearm in and of it's self,
would not constitute probable cause for a field interview
in the absents of any criminal activity in or adjacent to the immediate area of contact.

The sole fact of a person, an adult (18 years of age or older) who
openly possesses a firearm does not constitute a criminal offense.

And therefore person(s) of the Commonwealth are not subject to any type of unlawful and
questionable 'stop and frisk' activities of law enforcement in over reach states.

Boys,

If there has been a violation of statute, and a lawful contact is made,
of course an officer may, request identification, pat down the
outside of a subject's clothing (for officer safety) firearms or
other weapons may be removed by the officer, until which
time the contact is completed or an arrest is made.

So in closing, an officer, one that opposes open carry,
can't use his authority under the color of law or statute to harass or
impede person or persons that are in a lawfully possessing a firearm(s).


Gees, it got something to do with that pesky lit'l 4th amendment,
and personal property and papers and all such as that.......


.

 

[Protected One]

I was in a Home Depot recently (in Detroit, of all places), and in the checkout line next to me stood a guy open carrying a full size semi-auto (looked like a Sig). Dressed in black pants and a dark shirt the gun was less noticable than it could have been. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but if they did, not a word was said.
I just smiled, and waited there with my Glock 23 concealed under my untucked shirt.

 

[ladder13]

We all know the criteria for a 'Terry Stop' ....


In the Commonwealth of Kentucky,

The open carrying of a firearm in and of it's self,
would NOT constitute probable cause for a field interview
in the absents of any criminal activity in or adjacent to the immediate area of contact.

The sole fact of a person, an adult (18 years of age or older) who
openly possesses a firearm does NOT constitute a criminal offense.

And therefore person(s) of the Commonwealth are NOT subject to any type of unlawful and
questionable 'stop and frisk' activities of law enforcement in over reach states.

Boys,
.........................................

.

Perfectly clear, thanks.

 

[keith44spl]

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
...
Last post in this, and one that OC people will dismiss.
If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun
(and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or
somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing?
If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?...

Sir,

Outside of the 1930s era gangster movies.......
,
I have never encountered a criminal wearing a holster.

What modern day gangster wants to be caught flee the scene
of his latest mis-deeds with a holstered sidearm or
worse an empty holster after ditchin his gat?

Of the few dust-up that I have been in...
The POSs drew from concealment, a pocket or waistband.

No holster need by Ricky the Armed Robber


.

 

[ladder13]

AR's,AK's, M1A's, SKS's, Mosins,Enfields , M1's, etc etc etc are absolutely used for hunting.

To add, semi-auto's are legal in 48 states, even crappy NY , but banned in PA and DE.
Reading some of the FUDD comments in this article, it's easy to see why.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...utaUAsGmL9iiAug&bvm=bv.73373277,d.cGU&cad=rja

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I was in a Home Depot recently (in Detroit, of all places), and in the checkout line next to me stood a guy open carrying a full size semi-auto (looked like a Sig). Dressed in black pants and a dark shirt the gun was less noticable than it could have been. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but if they did, not a word was said.

So much for someone open carrying to draw attention to oneself.

I just smiled, and waited there with my Glock 23 concealed under my untucked shirt.

I wouldn't go around letting people around here know that you carry a Glock. They might take you for a "new ager" or someone else who doesn't know what a quality firearm is.

 

[The Big D]

Just one for me.

Only one bad guy in my career was rolling with a holstered gun.

Though I was not directly involved I was first to arrive at the crime scene after the dust settled.

'Routine' stop for speed violation id'd by radar. Bad guy likely thought the stolen car he was driving was the reason. Shot the first officer point blank as the officer was standing by the door; that officer and second officer who had stopped returned fire. Bad guy dead behind the wheel; wounded officer saved by his vest.

Bad...oops, DEAD guy used a Taurus 9mm and had an Uncle Mike's IWB holster at 12 o'clock.

Much more to the story...that's for another thread someday.

Be safe.

...,
I have never encountered a criminal wearing a holster.

What modern day gangster wants to be caught flee the scene
of his latest mis-deeds with a holstered sidearm or
worse an empty holster after ditchin his gat?

Of the few dust-up that I have been in...
The POSs drew from concealment, a pocket or waistband.

No holster need by Ricky the Armed Robber


.

 

[Ben_hutcherson]

But OC is not the only legal way for you to carry. You just choose not to go through the process of getting a ccw.

When I got in the car at 10:00 to go to the gas station last night, open carrying was the only legal option I had at my disposal to carry a gun.

The fact that I could get a CCW is really irrelevant, as even if I'd attended a class yesterday, it would be a roughly 3 months before I'd get the little white card that would bless me to carry with a shirt over my gun.

Skimming back through this thread, you have said that open carry was "stupid" even where legal, and called folks who do so "idiots" just in the past page or two. I'm really bothered by someone who displays a shield next to their name saying this, especially since situations have been outlined here where the choice is between open carry or don't carry.

 

[Protected One]

So much for someone open carrying to draw attention to oneself.



I wouldn't go around letting people around here know that you carry a Glock. They might take you for a "new ager" or someone else who doesn't know what a quality firearm is.

I've been heckled by professionals so amatuers no longer bother me!

 

[eyegots2no]

It is interesting how we have open carry and/or concealed carry in our land----then ----we have the PA resident with a CHL getting arrested as she drove through NJ---(see the thread..."has anyone been keeping up with...")

Real shame that by one political boundary in the USA, you could get 10 years.

 

[gearup]

You have any proof I violated my oath? Lots of laws I don't agree with. I enforced the law, not my opinions. I worked in NY, so no open carry issues there. If it had been legal, I would have felt the same way about it as I do now.

If OC is your ONLY option then I see the validity. I think owning a gun is an absolute right and ccw should be legal in ALL 50 states with reciprocity between states.

Last post in this, and one that OC people will dismiss. If OC is legal, and an officer has no authority to stop and question you simply for walking with a displayed gun (and a holstered weapon IS displayed if I can see it) then what is to stop a felon or somebody prohibited from owing a weapon from OC'ing? If he can't be forced to answer questions, then how would you know?

And before I get the whole "how often does that happen?" My answer is I don't know. And neither do you.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. What would make you think you have the right to stop me for simply OCing. You see me and I am not in violation of the law then you have no need to know anything about me.

The police are for law enforcement not citizen control.

By your logic, OCers are automatically suspicious. What if I am a felon? REALLY. What if you're a felon? See how stupid that sounds.

Continuing down your own logical thread, CCers are not suspicious. Criminals never jam a gun in their pants or coat.

How do you walk through a crowd? What if one someone CCing is a felon? I get it.......we are only worried about the OCing felons because they are the worst and most dangerous.

Your prejudice opinion seems to have led to a invalid sense of entitlement. Based on all this logic one would wonder if a minority OCer makes you extra nervous.

 

[snubbyfan]

Your prejudice opinion seems to have led to a invalid sense of entitlement. Based on all this logic one would wonder if a minority OCer makes you extra nervous.

Being a minority, I've been stopped and questioned and even accused of being a drug trafficker at gun point by the police.
I feel that if I was open carrying it would have been shoot first and ask questions later.
Ya darned right I always carry concealed.

 

[gearup]

Being a minority, I've been stopped and questioned and even accused of being a drug trafficker at gun point by the police.
I feel that if I was open carrying it would have been shoot first and ask questions later.
Ya darned right I always carry concealed.

I understand what you are saying. It is unacceptable but unfortunately true.