+P+

[RoGrrr]

I'm familiar with 9mm +P+ loads but have not seen much concerning reloading your own hot loads. I have several boxes of them to use in my carry gun so I'm not concerned about the 9. I feel I have a lifetime supply.

I have also seen some (expensive) +P in 45ACP.
I've never heard of them so far but is there such a thing as +P+ in 45 ACP ?

I understand all those lawyer-speak caveats when it comes to (re)loading overpressure loads, has anyone developed anything in the area of the +P+ for the 45 ?

I've also seen some hollow points that are (more than) extremely aggressive and I plan to research more on them for self defense. After all, when you pull your sidearm to protect yourself, you want something that is going to stop the thug, his lawyer be damned....

I recall people loading hollow base wadcutters in their 38/357 upside down for better expansion. And I really don't want to hear your lawyer-speak telling me NOT to do stuff like that. If YOUR life were in danger, I'm sure you would want something/anything that would be effective to the point that you would be able to walk away from the encounter. So don't even think of starting on me.....
BTW, I load my 45s with Universal Clays and I shoot bowling pins with them. I want a bowling "man" load !

 

[squidsix]

.45 Super is about .45+P+, but terribly costly.
No reason to worry about litigation. I have heard a lot about it, but never ONE INSTANCE OF CASE LAW. So load what you like, and carry it.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm familiar with 9mm +P+ loads but have not seen much concerning reloading your own hot loads. I have several boxes of them to use in my carry gun so I'm not concerned about the 9. I feel I have a lifetime supply.

I have also seen some (expensive) +P in 45ACP.
I've never heard of them so far but is there such a thing as +P+ in 45 ACP ?

I understand all those lawyer-speak caveats when it comes to (re)loading overpressure loads, has anyone developed anything in the area of the +P+ for the 45 ?

I've also seen some hollow points that are (more than) extremely aggressive and I plan to research more on them for self defense. After all, when you pull your sidearm to protect yourself, you want something that is going to stop the thug, his lawyer be damned....

I recall people loading hollow base wadcutters in their 38/357 upside down for better expansion. And I really don't want to hear your lawyer-speak telling me NOT to do stuff like that. If YOUR life were in danger, I'm sure you would want something/anything that would be effective to the point that you would be able to walk away from the encounter. So don't even think of starting on me.....
BTW, I load my 45s with Universal Clays and I shoot bowling pins with them. I want a bowling "man" load !

Nothing like a little attitude with your first post eh?

If you want to reload your own, that's your business. Just be ready to accept the consequenses.

As far as 45 ACP +P+, the case walls were not designed for those kinds of pressure. The 45 Super is the closest thing but it was a thicker case.

 

[MrApathy]

there is also 460 rowland cartridge which is souped up 45 super

there are standards for pressure P is standard by saami specification
so is +p

+p+ exceeds specs and could be anything pressure wise

your going the wrong way if you want higher pressure you could do that with any powder disasterously
try shopping for slower burning powder that will give the velocity you really want.

 

[Dragon88]

I'm familiar with 9mm +P+ loads but have not seen much concerning reloading your own hot loads. I have several boxes of them to use in my carry gun so I'm not concerned about the 9. I feel I have a lifetime supply.

I have also seen some (expensive) +P in 45ACP.
I've never heard of them so far but is there such a thing as +P+ in 45 ACP ?

I understand all those lawyer-speak caveats when it comes to (re)loading overpressure loads, has anyone developed anything in the area of the +P+ for the 45 ?

I've also seen some hollow points that are (more than) extremely aggressive and I plan to research more on them for self defense. After all, when you pull your sidearm to protect yourself, you want something that is going to stop the thug, his lawyer be damned....

I recall people loading hollow base wadcutters in their 38/357 upside down for better expansion. And I really don't want to hear your lawyer-speak telling me NOT to do stuff like that. If YOUR life were in danger, I'm sure you would want something/anything that would be effective to the point that you would be able to walk away from the encounter. So don't even think of starting on me.....
BTW, I load my 45s with Universal Clays and I shoot bowling pins with them. I want a bowling "man" load !

Sounds like you have all the answers, so I won't even "think of starting on" helping you. Good luck.

 

[RoGrrr]

kane and dragon
I've seen so many posts saying "you will be sued" or "your gun will injure people" that I simply decided to preclude them. Apparently some of you are so haughty that you do it anyway. It's your types I don't need, first post or not. And dragon, I don't have answers which is why I asked the question. Apparently you have..... Ahhh, forget it
If you want me to go away, simply ignore me and you won't have to worry about me or my attitude.

MrApathy, I do like that you offer some factual information which gives me something to go on. Additionally, it gives me something to respect you for. Thank you.
It's not that I want higher pressure. I want higher velocity and if that means developing a higher pressure, I want some idea how far I might go. SAAMI tends not to even mention anything above what they consider (standard) maximum loads, yet the manufacturers sell their +P and +P+ but won't offer any info on how they get there.
And it doesn't cost them any more to make the hot loads. It's those darn lawyers who have jacked up the malpractice and liability insurance rates that we all have to pay for by way of higher prices.

 

[Skip Sackett]

RoGrr,
The caveat that I want to throw in is this: What kind of firearm are you planning on shooting your hot rod 45ACP out of?

To me, that make ALL the difference in the world. Loading for a Glock 21 is much different than loading for a S&W M625JM, and, I do both!

My 45ACP loads that are what you are looking for, only get fired in the M625JM. Those hurl a 240gr LSWC @ 1100fps from the 4" tube. I would NEVER run them through a 1911, Glock nor any stock 45ACP semi auto.

Just too much can go wrong, and, hey, I kind of like my fingers, my eyes, nose and the loved ones that go to the range with me. The other folks, not so much but, ............................. Just kidding!


Answer the question, more info will follow.

p.s. If you want attitude, dude, you came to the right place!

 

[2hawk]

RoGrrr, it seems that by anticipating contention you have promoted it. Not your intention, I'm sure.
No responsible handloader is going to pass on information that may result in a blown up gun or injury... and while I'm sure many here have pushed the envelope, the rules have always been the same. You work up your own loads, in your own guns, because what is safe in your gun may not be in someone elses. Just the way it is.
You state that it doesn't cost the manufacturers any more to make the hot loads, and seem to resent that they keep their proprietary information to themselves. Guys like Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore has built his business on hot ammo, and it doesn't come cheaply. Testing with pressure equipment and fomulating non-cannister powders that are NOT available to the average handloader costs money. He isn't just some guy tinkering at his bench, you know.
Final thought, for now anyway, is that velocity is only one aspect of a good defensive load, and is certainly less important than proper bullet placement and bullet design/terminal performance. Many serious handgun users have come to believe that more is not necessarily better, at least where bullet weight and velocity are concerned. (Look up Jim Cirillo, see what he used on the stakeout squad). My experience is, if you feel that your chosen caliber is lacking, you need another caliber, not a hotrod load. imho, ymmv, etc.

Now, you don't say what type of firearm you have. If you've got a 45acp revolver you could probably go up to 45 super levels without a problem, but not in a semi. So, if you want people to share what they know, give us a little help instead of the attitude. What are you shooting, and what do you want to do with it?

eta skip is obviously a better typist

 

[ClarkMag]

I worked up to 460 Rowland loads in May 2000 with a 20 ounce Patriot pistol. They are not rated for 45acp +P in the manual, but the factory was supporting me with free parts.

I developed a flinch.
I built a 42 pound triple recoil spring assembly and eventually the flinch went away.

This is all just gee-whiz stuff for guys who know what they are doing.

Most people would be better off just sticking with the 45acp levels.

From a mixed source of published loads:

1) 45 acp..................185 gr. 10.2 gr. AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...............185 gr. 10.8 gr. AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super................185 gr. 12.4 gr. AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............ 185 gr. 14.5 gr. AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup

 

[Rule3]

For the OP, I guess I just do not understand the "need" for a +P+ 45 ACP load.

The max load of a "regular" 45 ACP with whatever 230 gr bullet is not sufficient for your needs?

It seems to have worked well for 100 years

 

[125JHP]

IMO +P+ is sales marketing hype. It only means more than +P. If there is a SAMMI standard for +P then +P+ only has to be 1 fps faster to be called +P+ - if there isn't a recognized +P standard (which there isn't for most calibers) then the manufactures are free to make up anything they want and call it "new and improved" of whatever - consumers fall for it all the time. Now all that aside, I have heard on the internet that as a general rule of thumb +P is between standard PSI and +10% and that +P+ is another 5% to as much as 10% above that, so depending on who is making up the story, +P+ could be up to 20% over standard load.
I don't know about you but I can't eyeball pressure that closely and don't have the right gear to measure it either.

 

[Moonman]

I think we may have a juvenile type MALL-NINGA personality here.

 

[125JHP]

There you go... using that "N" word .

 

[Erich]

Is a 255-grain LSWC load that does 935 fps from a 4" semiauto what you're looking for, roGrr? How about a 255-gr LSWC load that does 950 fps from a 3" revolver? Or a 200-gr LSWC that does 1570 fps from a 3.75" revolver? Because I've got those . . . but until a person demonstrates that he's man enough to understand their place in the world, I don't share data with him.

Hey! Clark is here! Good to see you, amigo!

 

[parabarbarian]

AFAIK, there is no +P+ standard for 45 ACP or any other cartridge. So, any 45 ACP over 23,000 PSI maximum pressure could be called a +P+. OR ++P or P++ or ...

It seems the label is a marketing ploy to sell ammunition but otherwise devoid of any meaning.

 

[MichiganScott]

I think we may have a juvenile type MALL-NINGA personality here.

He even use Mall Ninja syntax.

Personally, I only carry factory ammo for self defense because people with far more experience in court than I have recommend only using factory ammo.

 

[2hawk]

I think I've got the solution the OP needs....

Arsenal Firearms

 

[Knightrider03m]

The market has no need for 45 +p+ so the market hasn't made them.

 

[Nygma]

Maybe try one of these?

 

[358156hp]

One little point worth mentioning. Many semi-autos are likely to need the firing pin hole bushed, and a tighter fitting firing pin fit if you're going to be adventurous. Most 1911s especially, seem to have firing pin holes a bit oversized for high pressure loads. Do the "45 Super" research to learn about the recommended gun modifications before setting off for where angles fear to tread.