I keep hearing about the double charges that blow guns apart, How many calibers can actually be double charged? The brass is only so big depending on caliber, are some only half full of powder? Or is someone using a more powerfull powder?
Question for the Reloaders
- Thread starter Franklin
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Well said if I do say so.
Broker50
Member
A lot depends on the burning rate of the powder, & case capacity. A powder with a fast burn rate, like Bullseye, could be triple charged in a case like 38 Special. A slow burn rate powder, such as used in a Magnum rifle case, though it can't be double charged, can be over pressure enough to still wreak havoc.
Oldiron
US Veteran
Franklin, A double charge is quite possible if you use a powder such as Bullseye. Best bet for a beginner is to use a powder that has high volume and comes close to filling the case. If you need to find more info on high volume powders check with the guys on the reloading side of the forum. Reloading is like playing with snakes, a moments distraction or inattention can get you in trouble.
Larry
Larry
Some cartridges like the 45 Colt; various .44's; and even the .38 Special were developed during the black powder era. When loaded with smokeless powder there's an excessive amount of internal volume unless you're using a slow burn rate powder. That's why you have to be very careful when reloading these rounds. If you're using Bullseye, which is one of the fastest burning powders it's easy for a double charge to go unnoticed until you pull the trigger.
David R
Member
I look in every case to make sure it is charged properly. Been reloading since 1987. I have not had a double charge yet. I have had just a couple with NO charge which can cause problems if not detected before the next shot is fired. If you use a loading block to put all 50 cases in them just look with a good light and make sure all are filled the same amount. I use a progressive press and look into each case as it goes by.
Pay attention. The safest thing about reloading is between your ears.
Just because you can fit 2 or 3 charges of Bullseye in a 38 case does not mean its a bad powder or you should not use it. Just use your head.
Have fun
David
Pay attention. The safest thing about reloading is between your ears.
Just because you can fit 2 or 3 charges of Bullseye in a 38 case does not mean its a bad powder or you should not use it. Just use your head.
Have fun
David
Ben_hutcherson
Member
One of the things I often do when I set up a powder charge is intentionally double charge a case to see what it looks like vs. a standard charge.
As mentioned, double charges are probably easiest to happen in the older low pressure, large volume cartridges. This is especially true with fast powders(Bullseye is the stereotypical example). A "target load" charge of Bullseye in 38 special might be around 3 grains, and it's very easy to fit 9 or 12 grains of Bullseye in a 38 special case.
I tend to use Unique a lot in 38 special, and one advantage of using it is that a double charge will fill the case to the point where it's immediately obvious on inspection.
Magnum cartridges loaded with "magnum" powders like 2400 or 296 are essentially impossible to double charge, as a normal charge of one of these powders will fill a good portion of the case and a double charge will overfill it.
As mentioned, double charges are probably easiest to happen in the older low pressure, large volume cartridges. This is especially true with fast powders(Bullseye is the stereotypical example). A "target load" charge of Bullseye in 38 special might be around 3 grains, and it's very easy to fit 9 or 12 grains of Bullseye in a 38 special case.
I tend to use Unique a lot in 38 special, and one advantage of using it is that a double charge will fill the case to the point where it's immediately obvious on inspection.
Magnum cartridges loaded with "magnum" powders like 2400 or 296 are essentially impossible to double charge, as a normal charge of one of these powders will fill a good portion of the case and a double charge will overfill it.
stevehart3578
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What you need to understand about powders is that each has it's own volumetric density. That means that a CC of one powder weighs different than a CC of another powder. Or conversely, 10 grains of one powder takes up a different amount of space in a case than 10 grains of a different powder.
The question you ask is very valid and it is what has lead to high volume powders like Trail Boss that is very hard to overload.
When my son loads for his AR he fills the case with Varget to just below the top. He doesn't even weigh the charge. In that particular cartridge (.223) it is literally impossible to overload the case with that powder.
When I load Bullseye in my .45 it is easy to TRIPLE load the case. What David R. said sums it up.
Pay attention. The best reloading tool in existence resides between your ears.
The question you ask is very valid and it is what has lead to high volume powders like Trail Boss that is very hard to overload.
When my son loads for his AR he fills the case with Varget to just below the top. He doesn't even weigh the charge. In that particular cartridge (.223) it is literally impossible to overload the case with that powder.
When I load Bullseye in my .45 it is easy to TRIPLE load the case. What David R. said sums it up.
Pay attention. The best reloading tool in existence resides between your ears.
Twoboxer
Member
I don't know if anyone can answer the question how many calibers are there, let alone what you asked.
But it's probably safe to say that almost all calibers can be double-charged either with twice the load of a "normal" powder for that caliber, or certainly by mistakenly using the "right" charge of the "wrong" powder.
The reason you read about it so much is simple - it's one of the few things that are quite possible while reloading and are truly dangerous.
FWIW; a lot of things can cause a Kaboom! in our guns and double charges are one. But, if a new reloader starts out right, learns safety first and foremost, it isn't a problem. I learned to look in every case before I put a bullet in it. If one learns to check all important steps, charging included, there is no need for "buying a bulky powder 'cause it's safer"...
gwpercle
Member
Just about all of them can be double charged with fast burning powders......be careful.
bedbugbilly
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Well said by many already. A lot of folks have the misconception that cartridge cases are "fill" of powder - which is wrong for smokeless powder in a lot of cases. Black powder cartridges (as muzzleloading rifles, pistols, shotguns) can have no air space between the powder and ball/load - if there is - the results are not nice.
As already mentioned, different smokeless powders have different "make up" - some are "ball", some "stick", some "flake" etc. The "grain weight" of a smokeless powder charge will vary depending on the type/make up of the powder and the "volume" of the load will as well. i.e. - some powders are more "dense" and others are more "fluffy".
I load mainly 9mm and a lot of 38 special. My powder of preference is Bulls Eye. My charges can vary from 2.7 grains of BE for my wad cutter loads to 3.2 or a little more for my round nose bullet loads (I only shoot cast lead). "Volume wise" - those charges take up very little room in a 38 special casing so a double or even a triple charge could be possible if you aren't paying attention. That mistake could cost you a good revolver and perhaps some fingers. A different powder, such as Trail Boss which is "fluffy" would take up the majority of the room in a casing so it would be awful hard to "double charge" and not catch.
Reloading is an interesting and rewarding hobby - but you need to keep your wits about you when doing it and always double check yourself. I load with a 4 die Lee set of dies on a 4 hole Lee turret. I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure mounted to my expander/powder thru die. After the casing is in the die and expanded, I trip the powder measure and dump a charge in before indexing to the seating die. I find that measure to be very accurate and consistent with Bulls Eye. I have never used it with other powders. I just keep on my toes and when loading a cartridge, make sure that I only introduce one load in to the casing. If I get interrupted for some reason, I stop, remove the casing and if charged or not, dump it back in to the hopper and start over. Every tenth cartridge, I charge it, remove it and dump the load in a scale to make sure everything is consistent.
As already mentioned, different smokeless powders have different "make up" - some are "ball", some "stick", some "flake" etc. The "grain weight" of a smokeless powder charge will vary depending on the type/make up of the powder and the "volume" of the load will as well. i.e. - some powders are more "dense" and others are more "fluffy".
I load mainly 9mm and a lot of 38 special. My powder of preference is Bulls Eye. My charges can vary from 2.7 grains of BE for my wad cutter loads to 3.2 or a little more for my round nose bullet loads (I only shoot cast lead). "Volume wise" - those charges take up very little room in a 38 special casing so a double or even a triple charge could be possible if you aren't paying attention. That mistake could cost you a good revolver and perhaps some fingers. A different powder, such as Trail Boss which is "fluffy" would take up the majority of the room in a casing so it would be awful hard to "double charge" and not catch.
Reloading is an interesting and rewarding hobby - but you need to keep your wits about you when doing it and always double check yourself. I load with a 4 die Lee set of dies on a 4 hole Lee turret. I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure mounted to my expander/powder thru die. After the casing is in the die and expanded, I trip the powder measure and dump a charge in before indexing to the seating die. I find that measure to be very accurate and consistent with Bulls Eye. I have never used it with other powders. I just keep on my toes and when loading a cartridge, make sure that I only introduce one load in to the casing. If I get interrupted for some reason, I stop, remove the casing and if charged or not, dump it back in to the hopper and start over. Every tenth cartridge, I charge it, remove it and dump the load in a scale to make sure everything is consistent.
I use a bright overhead light so I can see down inside my charged cases. I visually scan them, 50 or 100 at a time, for uniformity. If I take my time with this a double charge will be obvious. The same goes for a no charge, which can also be dangerous in a revolver.
bbqncigars
Member
Giving each charged case the hairy eyeball is a good practice. There are nice press-mounted LED setups available for this. A good overhead light will do for batch reloading.
Collo Rosso
Member
I like using the sized loading trays from Frankford arsenal. After charging them with the powder measure I place the tray down, tap once or twice to level the powder and look across the rows at an angle. The gray powder level is obvious against the brass and a double charge or no charge (squib is as bad as a double charge!) sticks out like a sore thumb. Works for me.
It is the dense, fast burning.....
It's not the calibers. Dense, fast burning powders like Bullseye and Titegroup that barely fill the bottom of a case with a full charge. A double charge is barely visible when you look in the case. You can't be too careful with fast burning powders. Slower powders are usually bulky, or at least some fast powders are made to be bulky and it's harder to double charge them. One nice thing about fast, dense powders is that a pound will load a few thousand pistol rounds but that may be false economy if you blow your gun up.
It's not the calibers. Dense, fast burning powders like Bullseye and Titegroup that barely fill the bottom of a case with a full charge. A double charge is barely visible when you look in the case. You can't be too careful with fast burning powders. Slower powders are usually bulky, or at least some fast powders are made to be bulky and it's harder to double charge them. One nice thing about fast, dense powders is that a pound will load a few thousand pistol rounds but that may be false economy if you blow your gun up.
