F4phantom
US Veteran
Back in '65 we heard of a recruit who got into it with a DI. They said he won the battle but lost the war in a big way. You didn't screw with the DI's.
Question on Basic Training....
- Thread starter The Last Standing Knight
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Sistema1927
US Veteran
In the 1980's, I would often order up a detail of raw recruits from the reception station at Ft. Knox to perform various menial tasks. It is amazing how a 3 lb. can of coffee was able to procure the labor of a half dozen men for a day.
One time, this kid was bragging about how he was actually a conscientious objector, and that he would never go into combat. I left the rest of the recruits with my subordinate, loaded this kid up in the truck, and took him back to the reception station where he repeated his claim to the commanding officer. He was out of the Army that quick with a general discharge.
One time, this kid was bragging about how he was actually a conscientious objector, and that he would never go into combat. I left the rest of the recruits with my subordinate, loaded this kid up in the truck, and took him back to the reception station where he repeated his claim to the commanding officer. He was out of the Army that quick with a general discharge.
I went in in 69 , one of my brothers followed me in 70. At one point in basic I was called into the duty hut by the DIs all 3 of them were present and I got severely harassed and a bit slapped around, whacked by a clipboard etc, made to squat against a wall while they harassed me. I just yes, sired and no sired and took it. My brother and everyone else I knew had a similar experience. I think it was just part of the whole thing and maybe an evaluation. I am quite sure if I had fought back I would have gotten a beating. I saw guys get some serious beat downs. Later, I have often wondered what would happen if you fought back and then as you laid on the floor a bloody mess said to them " Let that be a lesson to you". LOL Later in life I wasn't bashful about fighting and several times got seriously knocked around.
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cherrypointmarine
Member
If I remember right , the guys who saw us get off the bus weren't our DI's . Once there were enough guys in the transit barracks they would form a platoon and the DI's would come get the mob . I don't even think they were DI's , maybe DI's in training .
Plenty of stories , but one sticks out . Remember going to the showers with your belt around your neck so you could clean it ? One of the guys obviously forgot where the was . He came dillybopping out of the shower whistling . Now one of our DI's had been on the Marine Corps weight lifting team . This look came over him when he heard the whistling . He walked over , grabbed the guys belt and picked him up until his feet were off the ground . The belt pressed on his carotid artery and out he went . SSgt Place calmly looked down at the guy , tuned around and walked away . There was never another incident at shower time .
Plenty of stories , but one sticks out . Remember going to the showers with your belt around your neck so you could clean it ? One of the guys obviously forgot where the was . He came dillybopping out of the shower whistling . Now one of our DI's had been on the Marine Corps weight lifting team . This look came over him when he heard the whistling . He walked over , grabbed the guys belt and picked him up until his feet were off the ground . The belt pressed on his carotid artery and out he went . SSgt Place calmly looked down at the guy , tuned around and walked away . There was never another incident at shower time .
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
That kid is probably one of those you see touting his exploits as a Navy SEAL on youtube.
DI's were never "allowed" to strike recruits, but in those days it was "don't ask, don't tell", and the DI's were a tight knit group who'd back each other up regardless of how wrong one was. Repercussions could be harsh for recruits who'd blab when someone was "physically corrected", so they kept their mouths shut for the most part.
I had a great uncle who was a Parris Island DI back in the 1950's and later an instructor at Camp Lejeune during the 1960's. He tried to get me to join the Marines when I was a teenager, but my attitude at the time was "no way, Jose", because I knew where I'd end up (Vietnam). I did admire him, though, as he was always good to my sister and I when we visited them in Jacksonville, and when he'd take us to the base PX, it was like everybody knew him.
UncleEd
Member
Not actual real news but MSNBC just
mentioned this early afternoon how
recruitments for all services were
down.
Reason given were more couch potatoes,
sense of individual worth among young
men and a belief that U.S. policies not
worth commitment.
Add to this a report I recently read where
the military has had to lower standards to
attract or allow entry of recruits.
Now when it comes to individual branches,
I've always heard the Marines were trained
to be "shock troops" and they are very good
at it. But in the same breath, I remember
Army officers referring to them as "our
cannon fodder." Right or wrong this is
an image the Marines have. Young men
entering the Corps have to really fight
being jaded about their futures.
mentioned this early afternoon how
recruitments for all services were
down.
Reason given were more couch potatoes,
sense of individual worth among young
men and a belief that U.S. policies not
worth commitment.
Add to this a report I recently read where
the military has had to lower standards to
attract or allow entry of recruits.
Now when it comes to individual branches,
I've always heard the Marines were trained
to be "shock troops" and they are very good
at it. But in the same breath, I remember
Army officers referring to them as "our
cannon fodder." Right or wrong this is
an image the Marines have. Young men
entering the Corps have to really fight
being jaded about their futures.
I posted this last week:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/redire...gh-school-diploma-amid-recruiting-crisis.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/redire...gh-school-diploma-amid-recruiting-crisis.html
UncleEd
Member
Yes, this.
Interesting point, the lower scores for
entry only qualify a potential recruit
for Army infantry or armored cavalry
scouts. They fit into the category of
"they were expendable."
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
I think that speaks volumes to consider compulsory military service. Not a draft, but do it like countries such as Israel and Switzerland.
venomballistics
Member
I've heard a few in service stories in this vein.
One case, the guy was an instructor (classroom type, not R Lee Ermie kind)
Heavy technical subject matter, that almost nobody in the class seemed to grasp. Out of frustration, and probable mental defect, he drew his service pistol and pounded 124 grains into the ceiling tile.
brig and dishonorable discharge was the result.
Another case is a guy I flew RC models with.
Festering psychiatric problems came to a head with a newly commissioned commanding officer that didn't have any concept of respectful interaction.
the officer issued an insult about the guys wife. He snapped, jumped over the desk and broke the officers jaw.
apparently the officer got the message and did a little reflection.
It worked out to a medical discharge
One case, the guy was an instructor (classroom type, not R Lee Ermie kind)
Heavy technical subject matter, that almost nobody in the class seemed to grasp. Out of frustration, and probable mental defect, he drew his service pistol and pounded 124 grains into the ceiling tile.
brig and dishonorable discharge was the result.
Another case is a guy I flew RC models with.
Festering psychiatric problems came to a head with a newly commissioned commanding officer that didn't have any concept of respectful interaction.
the officer issued an insult about the guys wife. He snapped, jumped over the desk and broke the officers jaw.
apparently the officer got the message and did a little reflection.
It worked out to a medical discharge
venomballistics
Member
cannon fodder .... the unspoken military service commodity
UncleEd
Member
"Nothing is more destructive than the charge of artillery on a crowd.
The best generals are those who have served in the artillery.
God fights on the side with the best artillery.
Great battles are won with artillery.
Napoleon Bonaparte"
When it comes to battles, especially in the
sense of WWII battles and now the proxy
war we have going in Ukraine, old Napy was
so right. Of course, add in air power nowadays.
Artillery Gen. Henry Hunt of the federal army
during the "war of Northern aggression"
provided the doorway to success for Grant.
Was it General Giap in Vietnam who said something
to the effect "grab the Americans by the belt
buckle so they can't use their artillery."
Basic training and recruitment needs to reflect
the modern needs of what soldiers can
learn, accomplish with complicated weaponry.
Again, old Napy knew what he was talking
about in his day.
The best generals are those who have served in the artillery.
God fights on the side with the best artillery.
Great battles are won with artillery.
Napoleon Bonaparte"
When it comes to battles, especially in the
sense of WWII battles and now the proxy
war we have going in Ukraine, old Napy was
so right. Of course, add in air power nowadays.
Artillery Gen. Henry Hunt of the federal army
during the "war of Northern aggression"
provided the doorway to success for Grant.
Was it General Giap in Vietnam who said something
to the effect "grab the Americans by the belt
buckle so they can't use their artillery."
Basic training and recruitment needs to reflect
the modern needs of what soldiers can
learn, accomplish with complicated weaponry.
Again, old Napy knew what he was talking
about in his day.
venomballistics
Member
It's evolved some ... be it a belly full of B52, a battleship off the coast, or the blessing of a 155mm Paladin, that is largely the priority in war.
After the Army went all volunteer I think this would be a rare exception to the rule. I knew one young man back in the eighties that I had known for years. He was a smart###, had gone through all grades of school for the difficult complete to graduation. He got on my bus one day and announced that he was joining the Army, I congratulated him, wished him good luck. Within a week or so he was back, I asked him about his experience and why his quick return. He said "They started pushing me around, telling me what to do and I finally told them the Army was not for me because I don't take s### off anyone." They gave him a general discharge. I told him "Just to be fair to any of your future employers be sure to let them know about not taking s### off anyone." The kid started his own window washing business and last time I saw him was quite successful and happy with his life.
UncleEd
Member
Kinman,
Your friend may have been an example of
just how the military can work in
cross purposes. On one hand the
system is a top down dictatorship.
Often not too bright individuals
end up with a lot of authority over
others, those others having the
very skills and abilities that the
military needs or could need.
So these skilled individuals chuck
it at the first opportunity, not
wishing to continue in a life where
disobeying even trivial orders
can land one in very hot water.
My impression of the Air Force is
that it learned early on not to
dwell on so much of the trivia
enforced by other military
branches. I may be wrong and
I'd like veterans of the Air Force
to pipe up and affirm or correct
this imprssion that I have of it.
At an all-branches school I was
familiar with, it seemed that the
Air Force non-coms always placed
highest in learning skills. I won't
mention which service non-coms
always placed dead last.
Your friend may have been an example of
just how the military can work in
cross purposes. On one hand the
system is a top down dictatorship.
Often not too bright individuals
end up with a lot of authority over
others, those others having the
very skills and abilities that the
military needs or could need.
So these skilled individuals chuck
it at the first opportunity, not
wishing to continue in a life where
disobeying even trivial orders
can land one in very hot water.
My impression of the Air Force is
that it learned early on not to
dwell on so much of the trivia
enforced by other military
branches. I may be wrong and
I'd like veterans of the Air Force
to pipe up and affirm or correct
this imprssion that I have of it.
At an all-branches school I was
familiar with, it seemed that the
Air Force non-coms always placed
highest in learning skills. I won't
mention which service non-coms
always placed dead last.
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Well….. now days in the Air Force there are MTI Military Training Instructors and MTL Military Training Leaders. My son is the latter. He made Tech Sgt in 7 yrs. He intends to do 20 so he needed to do a DSD Job. So he’s been an MTL about 2 yrs. He’s 6’ 210lbs of granite. I can’t imagine any recruit mouthing off to him. In the regular world the recruit would get knocked out. But in the military world we all know that’s not how it’s done nowadays. However said recruit would be put through a hellish PT regimen until he puked. And tomorrow he’d get more of the same. And the day after etc…….. The guy with the most stripes always wins, even if he’s not allowed to kick your ***.
I left Lackland 51 years ago. That was before the MOS designation and the origami dinner napkin logo.
I haven't kept up.
I haven't kept up.
That never happened. I've never heard of any training
unit in which the instructors were armed.
As for the OP's story I don't have any problem believing someone took a swing at a Drill Sergeant but if they did I'm also certain they received a General Courts Martial and a dishonorable discharge and they ruined their lives.
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I seriously doubt the story, but things have changed since my time. I still doubt it, though.
Every Drill Sgt I saw in 1968 would have had him on the ground with his face in the dirt without really hurting him so fast he would not know how it happened. If he kept it up he would have learned it is a major mistake to put your hands on a Drill Sgt.
They were formidable men.
Most were very intense combat vets that were determined to make you a soldier or wash you out. Period. One or two were real psychos.
I picked up on the game very quickly. I got through Basic and Infantry AIT with no major problems and was a squad leader in both eventually. I did not try to be a squad leader because I took the avenue of performing competently, but tried to keep a low profile and be invisible. I got picked when others were busted out of the job.
ALWAYS show respect, NEVER show fear. Don't even think about sucking up, which I never tried, but saw a few who did. It did not go well for them.
Amazing! I know where that guy went! He was the mess sgt for the Bn mess hall for the 1/509th PIR at Mainz in 1969 when I got there! It has to be him- a grizzled old SSG (in his 50s?) that won the MOH in WW II, was a drunk, and ran the sorriest mess hall I ever encountered on three continents! He did not have to short you on the serving size- you couldn't eat it! He was just riding the ribbon (wore it on his fatigues) and probably had nowhere to go if he retired and they wouldn't put him out. Pathetic, really. I ate breakfast in the mess hall, sometimes tried to eat lunch, but supper I ate at the EM club!
KP in that mess hall was a 16 hour shift, and the times he was there I never saw him do anything but drink coffee, smoke, and read the paper for the few hours he was around. I never saw him enter the kitchen.
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RobertJ.
Member
This was my first thought!
