Quick: What Was the Spec. on WWII .38 Special?

[Don89044]

Gatofeo,
I was in the 3415th from Jan 1973-October 1976. I would have drawn my weapons from you in 76.
I was envious of you guys with all those weapons in that little room.
It is good to know some of us from those days are still out here kicking around.
Stay safe!

 

[ironhead7544]

I was in the Army from 1969 to 1972 as a Small Arms Repairman 45B20. The various military organizations were using the 38 Special S&W and Colt revolvers. The ammo was the above 158 gr FMJ loaded to 850 fps as indicated on the box.

Later, 1979 to 1982 I was in the I.L.A.N.G. as Security Police on the SAC base at O'Hare. We used the M15 with the 130 gr load. It was very mild and rumor had it that a bullet would stick in the barrel sometimes. I never saw that. Then we got new ammo with the pushed in bullet and star crimp. I would guess it ran at least 1000 fps and I was at least a bit more confident of it. The bullet was down almost to the tip in the case. The original load was supposed to be 3.5 grs Bullseye with what I think was the .356 38 Super 130 gr RN bullet. With the bullet down that far they may have kept the same powder charge but may have had to reduce it.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Here's a well known Gyrene in Korea.
Most likely carrying the same type Revolver and ammo he carried in WWII.
He is visiting the AF after surviving a Fire Ball Crash Landing.

 

[DWalt]

According to Pate's U.S. Handguns of World War II:The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers, the correct era ammo was the Remington 158 gr, lead core, copper plated steel jacketed ammo. Head stamps were REM UMC .38 SPL. Several large contracts were issued to Remington during the war. The packaging was the commercial green box Kleanbore label. Pate shows some on page 311. I bought some at a local show a couple of years ago. The box is a bit tattered but this is the stuff.

That is exactly the military ball round used during WWII. I have two boxes that are in slightly better condition in my collection, but still ratty. It was packed in a commercial-style box, but labeled as having a steel jacket. NOTE - there was no index number printed in the lower right-hand corner of the commercial box as was typical of Remington's contemporary commercial ammunition of other types. There was no specific military nomenclature adopted for that round such as Mxx. The only other .38 Special military issue round used during WWII was a red tracer which had a red-tipped bullet. Examples of the tracer round are somewhat difficult to find, but they came packed in a white box. The idea was that they could convert the revolver into an emergency signaling device for use by downed Naval aircraft flight crews, not for shooting at the enemy. There was some postwar experimentation into developing trace colors other than red, but I do not believe that any of them ever went into military service.

Back around 8-10 years ago, there was an extensive article about the .38 Special military rounds used during WWII published in the Journal of the International Ammunition Association (IAA), but the IAA circulates journals only to its paid members. I abstracted and posted relevant parts of that article on this forum but got dinged for it as being an improper use of copyrighted material, so it was taken down.

 

[71vette]

I'm reviving this thread as it's just so good. I searched for WW2 38 Special ammunition and this thread popped up.

Thanks everyone who posted. Truly one of the better forums on the internet!

 

[DWalt]

One obscure point about the Remington WWII .38 Special 158 grain FMJ loads. While the case headstamp appears to be commercial, it is not. Commercial headstamps used "REM-UMC". The military loads used "REM UMC". No dash.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

As the risk of a repeat-misfire-
My Old Navy Buddy Frank told me - in the S Pacific during WWII, they would remove just enough Cosmoline from their revolvers so you could rotate the cylinder and see through the barrel.
Cause when they got shot down, it was saltwater bathing time!
He did get shot down.

 

[BoulderTroll]

I'm reviving this thread as it's just so good. I searched for WW2 38 Special ammunition and this thread popped up.

Thanks everyone who posted. Truly one of the better forums on the internet!

I'm just getting a kick out of how many times it's been necroposted. It began in 2009, then was revived in 2012, then again in 2022, and now in 2025. So to whoever brings this back in 2028, I hope you guys still have internet and that the mushroom clouds have all cleared.

 

[larryofcc]

Here's a box with a 1944 Maritime Victory. Big Larry

 

[71vette]

I know the specs of the 158gr FMJ load is supposed to be 850fps, but does anybody actually know what it does out of a 4 inch barrel? A jacketed 158 getting to 850 out of a 4 inch would be reasonably hot.

 

[BoulderTroll]

I know the specs of the 158gr FMJ load is supposed to be 850fps, but does anybody actually know what it does out of a 4 inch barrel? A jacketed 158 getting to 850 out of a 4 inch would be reasonably hot.

I don't know what test barrel length they use, but Norma's standard pressure (non +P) 158 grain is 970 fps. Like I pointed out in my thread about safe loads for modern 38's, the current SAAMI spec is very watered down, for both standard and +P 38 special, so 850fps with 158 grains did not used to be considered hot. It only is by modern standards.

 

[71vette]

I don't know what test barrel length they use, but Norma's standard pressure (non +P) 158 grain is 970 fps. Like I pointed out in my thread about safe loads for modern 38's, the current SAAMI spec is very watered down, for both standard and +P 38 special, so 850fps with 158 grains did not used to be considered hot. It only is by modern standards.

I did notice that the non jacketed spec was 850 as well as the jacketed. If they used the same charge in my limited experience the volicity would be lower. Just wondered if they changed the load when they swapped the bullet.

Also, I believe Norma loads to CIP spec which is higher than +P. CIP max for 38 is approximately 22k PSI. SAAMI regular 38 is 17k. +P is 20k.