Range Report Bayou Hi-tek coated 158 L SWC and 2400 in 686

[forestswin]

Finally got some of these loaded and to the range to see how these bullets do.

Loaded 18 rounds with 12.8 grains of 2400 in new Starline Brass and CCI 500 primers.
This is a standard load for me with cast 158 grain LSWC and this gun.

the targets are 1 1/2" diameter

I didn't notice any smoke and my friend said all he saw were some flames coming out of the end of the barrel.

Chrono results:
I don't think I've ever had such poor chrono data correspond to such good target results in this test with these Hi-tek bullets??? Its kind of odd.

The bullets are very accurate and seem well made. The shoulders of the bullets are very consistent and crimped nice and uniform.
Overall, I am very happy with these bullets.

Generally, when I've seen 3 or 4 of the holes in a nice tight group, like these, I figure the load doesn't need any improvement and figure the guy pulling the trigger still has some fault involved.

The barrel cleaned right up with 1 wet patch and 3 dry patches. There was only a little bit of un-burnt powder in the barrel.



As others have said, this really changes the game.

 

[Nevada Ed]

For a "custom body" a ES of 121 seems a little high ?

The groups are still in the ball park though............

Wonder if they may work like a 22?
Fowl the barrel with 10 shots and see if the groups settle down ...... and never take a brush to that barrel again !!

Good luck with those bullets.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Guess the target didn't care what the chrono said. Curious results on the chrono, certainly.
Post you followups, be interested to know what you find.

 

[forestswin]

For a "custom body" a ES of 121 seems a little high ?

The groups are still in the ball park though............

Wonder if they may work like a 22?
Fowl the barrel with 10 shots and see if the groups settle down ...... and never take a brush to that barrel again !!

Good luck with those bullets.

Nevada and bugkiller - chrono results can really drive me crazy - high and low ES and SD should show up on the target. When they don't I'm left baffled, but I've learned to accept...

with chrono results on other similar bullets and this powder, the lower ES and SD have pretty much followed the better targets.

I did have 3 of the 18 in this batch with very low velocities, if I discounted them - the ES drops to 77 and the SD to 23.

But it really comes down to what happens on the targets.

I guess I'll just have to shoot more

 

[Rule3]

Nevada and bugkiller - chrono results can really drive me crazy - high and low ES and SD should show up on the target. When they don't I'm left baffled, but I've learned to accept...

with chrono results on other similar bullets and this powder, the lower ES and SD have pretty much followed the better targets.

I did have 3 of the 18 in this batch with very low velocities, if I discounted them - the ES drops to 77 and the SD to 23.

But it really comes down to what happens on the targets.

I guess I'll just have to shoot more

Throw out the high and the low and what does that "data show"??

Too much is made over ES especially with only 18 in the sample.

 

[venomballistics]

Muahaha, all must be assimilated.

 

[forestswin]

Throw out the high and the low and what does that "data show"??

Too much is made over ES especially with only 18 in the sample.

throwing out the Hi and Low, as requested

I get this:

COMPUTED
HIGH 1147
LOW 1044
AVG 1111
ES 103
STD DEV 30

 

[Rule3]

throwing out the Hi and Low, as requested

I get this:

COMPUTED
HIGH 1147
LOW 1044
AVG 1111
ES 103
STD DEV 30

OK, now throw out those two highs and lows, whta do you get?

Eventually we will get some numbers that look good.

Fun with statistics.

Now get of the internet and go load some proper accurate ammo that has good numbers!

As we discussed before you are stuck on that 12.8 grains of 2400, there may actually be another load that will work out better,

 

[forestswin]

OK, now throw out those two highs and lows, whta do you get?

Eventually we will get some numbers that look good.

Fun with statistics.

Now get of the internet and go load some proper accurate ammo that has good numbers!

As we discussed before you are stuck on that 12.8 grains of 2400, there may actually be another load that will work out better,

Oh come on now!
the chrono is a fun toy and I also get to play with spreadsheets. I don't let it govern my loads, it just provides another piece of information.

Why in the world would I want to change that load?

As we say, target trumps chrono!

I always get that one "flier" on everything I shoot.

Look at the other 5 holes. I don't really expect the groups to get any better than that. Would you?

 

[Nevada Ed]

I got my chrony so I could get an idea of the speed of my loads.....
Some times the numbers are great other times I wonder if my chrony is working correctly ? (battery)

I too get groups that have terrible ES and tight groups...... and tight ES with loose groups.......... I never figured that one out, either?? !!

Now I don't sweat the small stuff as much ......and just go for the "Ball Park" figures.

Good shooting.

 

[TAROMAN]

I too get groups that have terrible ES and tight groups...... and tight ES with loose groups.......... I never figured that one out, either?? !!

Same here.
Let the targets rule.

 

[rwsmith]

That sound like...

That sounds like a 'just right' load. Since it works in your gun, good. That's a nice looking group at 25 yards by any stretch.

 

[ironhead7544]

With 2400 I have found that it works best on the high ends. The lower charges are much less consistent.

 

[venomballistics]

I think I load something like 14 grains behind a 175 grain pill.
Ya gotta use the powder if you want to see good numbers
Also, unburned powder is a sign that you're under that powders range.

I'd try again with blue dot to the same power levels.

 

[Rule3]

I forgot to add, at least this time we can see 6 holes and not the usual 5. You know the "flier"

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Which case?

Loaded 18 rounds with 12.8 grains of 2400 in new Starline Brass and CCI 500 primers.
This is a standard load for me with cast 158 grain LSWC and this gun.

You used 357Mag cases, not 38Spcl, right? I wonder if the smaller case would make a difference for the ES & SD?
.

 

[alwslate]

forestwin chronograph results like yours is why I went back to magnum
primers with 2400 in the 357 magnum. With the fairly recent warnings
to use standard primers only I loaded up a batch of 357s with various
powder charges and standard primers a while back. When I started
chronographing them I actually thought there was something wrong
with my chronograph. I dug out a few old reloads with mag primers
to compare. To make a long story short, I'm done with using standard
primers with 2400 in the 357. Most handloaders are picky about some
aspect of their loads and I can't stand to see large ESs. I don't care
if a load shoots one hole groups if the velocity spread is 100+ fps it
will never be used. I have seen ES drop from 130 fps down to 30 fps
by changing to magnum primers with 2400. I think the primer is even
more important when loading well below maximum as you are, and as
I also do anymore.

 

[forestswin]

Nevada
thanks for your words of wisdom

Nevada and TAROMAN
I will be trying another batch of the same load over the chrono.
It was late afternoon and the sun was a little below the trees, maybe it spit out some bad readings. I certainly don't plan on changing that load, I may try different loads in the future, but that one will go in the book with a star.

thanks rw
we've both had targets with scattered holes - its very rewarding to see good groups

ironhead
I have other 2400 loads up to 14.5 grains that are pretty good, but I like consistent groups over consistent numbers

venom
my approach was to load them the way I would load any other 158 swc's to see what differences came up. I've loaded from 11.8 up to 14.5 and duplicated some of those loads using magnum primers. The best groups were the 12.8 grain loads. Previous chrono readings showed some of the lowest ES's and SD's there too. But none of my previous tests had any velocity below 1080 fps, this batch had 3 readings below 1080. If the groups didn't show up the way they did, I would be going up and down with the charge weight. I will add there wasn't much unburnt powder, just a few flakes that I saw after I shot all 18.

Rule
that's it, I'm getting an auto-progressive and load thousands of rounds and shoot everyday until I get rid of my signature flier.

Bluedot
yes, 357 cases
but I have recently started loading more 38 special loads to conserve powder, after I retest this load, that bullet is going to be coming out of a Model 67 but with a different powder.

alwslate
Alliant and Speer said they no longer suggest magnum primers for their bullets.

Well Alliant doesn't give loads for 2400 in 357 cast bullets in their newer load data and Speer doesn't make any cast 158 swc's.

So as far as I'm concerned, they took themselves out of the advice game for 2400 and cast bullet reference material . Laser cast and many other load books still use magnum primers in their tests, so I consider magnum primers as a viable component during my load development with 2400.

I've found they add about 50 fps in my 357 / 2400 loads in the load ranges I've used so far. They have helped on some loads and some - they didn't seem to do anything different on the targets and I haven't seen any erratic velocities from their use either.

The high ES's do bother me, but what bothers me more is that they don't string vertically. That drives me crazy....I just have to accept that internal ballistics is voodoo science.

But, I think I'll have to do another batch to see what happens with the data.

 

[forestswin]

add on data

I'm bringing back an older thread, to post some follow-up range results.
I shot these a little while after the original test, but forgot add the data afterwards.

I really liked the groups of the earlier tests, but couldn't accept the high ES and SD.
I am happy with these last results, as the ES and SD both came down and still nice tight groups.

It seems the Bayou coated bullets just needed a little more oomph!

 

[venomballistics]

I wouldn't be ashamed of that at all.
And yes, I too have noticed a sort of shift in the load dynamics with coated.
It seems to like being pushed a little harder before it hits the butter zone.