Real Light .38 Spl Loads

[GypsmJim]

The objective was an ultra light revolver to hide in her purse for PP. The lady wanted a titanium .22, but got talked out of it because of inadequate ballistics. She settled on a S&W 642.

"Regular" .38 spl loads in a 6" model 10 were uncomfortable for her - she didn't like the recoil. OTOH, a K-22 was more palatable.

My thought was to load the .38 real light at first until she gained confidence, then work up. Any recommendations? I realize a .38 can't duplicate the felt recoil of a .22 LR, but what's a safe minimum load?

 

[steamloco76]

148 grain wadcutters are the answer!
Any loading manual should have good, light loads using Bullseye, W231, 700X, TiteGroup or AA #2.

Not much recoil at all and they usually shoot pretty much POA from a snubbie.

After she gets used to those, move up to a 158 grain cast LSWC with loads just over the starting numbers in the manuals. Then move to a good old medium load like 4.3-4.5 grains of Unique under the same bullet.

One thing I've noticed about women shooters; they don't like noise. Make sure she is wearing hearing protection with at least 23 dB or more attenuation. My wife can shoot heavier kicking mid level .44 mags better than mid level .357's and it is all because the sharp crack of the .357 makes her flinch.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Use the lightest bullet possible. 110gr or so. Find data for Bullseye and have at it.

Another choice is the 148gr HBWC with the standard load of Bullseye.

I would look into different grips for shooting days as well as a glove too. There are those "mechanic's" ones out now and some of them are padded. Much cheaper than shooting gloves.

Have her shoot what she is comfortable with. If it is a 22LR, have her shoot that until she is tired of it. Then, move on. One thing that will keep her involved is reactive targets. Pop cans, tennis balls, golf balls, or steel plates, are always good. There are these things out now too:

There is a video here too:
Do-All Outdoors

Have her enjoy the shooting first, then move on to the firearm. I NEVER thought my wife would shoot a large caliber muzzle loader but now she owns a 50 caliber Encore Endeavor! She can put three shots in an inch @ 50 yards with open sights too! (Her scope is a Christmas present, shhhhhh, don't tell her!)

 

[moxie]

Try the 148 gr. wadcutter (any style) over 2.8 gr. Bullseye. That's as light as it gets and is known for its accuracy.

 

[jimkim]

So she was talked out of getting a gun with which she would become proficient in favor of a loud paper weight. You need to talk to that salesman's supervisor. They clearly didn't have her best interest in mind. IDK about you but I'd much rather be missed by a 38 than hit by a 22. Too bad you couldn't take the gun back and let her look at a Ruger Mk III or something. It probably wouldn't hurt to enroll her in a self defense class or two. Training usually helps in these situations. Once she learns some proper shooting techniques she may even begin to like a little recoil.


This will give you somewhere to start.

38 cal Speer GDHP
Unique 5.4gr@947fps - 5.8gr@1065fps
W231 4.6gr@871fps - 5.0@971fps
I'd give Alliant and Hodgdon a call and see if theses loads can be reduced a little.

 

[Waidmann]

I have seen 90 grain plinker rounds for training training only. I also identify with the comments identifying wadcutters as working minimum for home defense.

Having said tht I'd rather see her picking off shirt buttons with a .22 rather than scraping ribs with a .38 or punching clouds with a .44

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For a really light .38 Special load try a 148gr DEWC over 2.5gr Clays. It's really soft shooting, it's clean and I've found it to be accurate.

 

[Paul5388]

I'm thinking real hard about a M637 at less than 15 ounces, or a M37 at about the same weight. I plan on using a wadcutter load, but turning the hollow base backwards for actual carry. 3.5 gr of Bullseye doesn't generate that much recoil and I'd rather have a 148 gr bullet than a 39 gr bullet any day.

Then it's just a matter of acclimation to achieve proficiency.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I have a M637. Goes into an ankle holster then it rides imy Roper boots most of the time.

3.5gr of Bullseye with a 160gr LSWC is my standard load for ANY 38spl I shoot. Long or short barrel. THE LOAD is in my M60 -13 right now with my own cast 160gr WC.

While I shoot the pretty well, respectively, FOR TRAINING A NEW FEMALE shooter, I would not use either load, and certainly not from a snubby.

All three of my daughters shot a Ruger Single Six in 22LR to learn the basics. Now they all carry something with more punch and they can shoot them pretty well.

Training and carry AT THE BEGINNING are two very different things.

Get some plastic bottles, fill them with water, put them at varying distances and let her KILL them with a 22LR. After a bit, shoot some with her watching with a heavier caliber. Most will see what can be done and will want to try the same.

Light bullets going slow to start and move up when she is ready.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I cast Lee's 105gr SWC's for my .38 special bunny fart loads. I'm not sure if they even feel like .22LR level recoil. I'm using the lightest load data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. They are so much fun that I can forget how many I have run through and the box goes empty way too fast. Then the casting and reloading can begin anew.

 

[sunday bill]

I'm afraid that with some of the loads mentioned, the excess space in the 38 case can lead to inconsistent ignition. If poor ignition leads to squibs and squibs lead to any of the possibilities, all of them bad, someone may get hurt. Best case scenario may be that a potential shooter may be turned away.....I'd suggest ordering a few 38 Long Colt or even 38 Short Colt cases from Starline or another brass supplier. Load'em with IMR's recommended charge of their Trail Boss and top'em with a 90-105 grain bullet from one of the Cowboy Action bullet casters.

 

[hawgleg]

Hard to beat a 148 gr WC with 2.6-2.8 gr of Bullseye. For low recoil and accuracy it's great.

 

[Treeman]

You can replicate .22 feel in a .38. While you probably don't actually need to go this light the data is tested and real.
Option 1. Speer primer propelled plastic bullets
Option 2. NRA tested super light loads for .38 spl. .75gr of Bullseye and 146 gr. wadcutters. Good fro about 195fps from a 2" barrel----it will stick in a 6 inch barrel. 1.25 grains will work in a 6 inch giving under 300fps.

You don't have to go that low but it demonstrates what can be done. Most manuals have starting loads but they are not NECESSARILY minimum loads. With slower powders they may be minimum, but the old standby "fast" pistol powders(No 1 example is Bullseye) can be used at any level capable of consistently expelling the bullet.

Round balls and minimal charges are even milder than the ones above.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I'm afraid that with some of the loads mentioned, the excess space in the 38 case can lead to inconsistent ignition. If poor ignition leads to squibs and squibs lead to any of the possibilities, all of them bad, someone may get hurt. Best case scenario may be that a potential shooter may be turned away.....I'd suggest ordering a few 38 Long Colt or even 38 Short Colt cases from Starline or another brass supplier. Load'em with IMR's recommended charge of their Trail Boss and top'em with a 90-105 grain bullet from one of the Cowboy Action bullet casters.

I have gone through piles of these light loads and never had that happen. If the concern is valid then maybe try and use a case filling powder like Trail Boss. And the .38 Long Colt is the shorter of the two with a case length of 1.03 " while the .38 Special's length of 1.16". That's not much of a difference.

 

[CCV]

I like a 125 grain Cast Oregon Trail over 3.2 grains of CLAYS. Shoots like a laser beam in my K38. Not sure how well it will perform out of a snubby.

 

[jhvaughan2]

Another option:
Rather than work down .38 have you thought about working up .32 long/mag? I have found recoil shy people do enjoy centerfire shooing with the .32.

98 gr wadcutters are a much lighter recoiling load than .38, especially in a j frame. Working up from there you could make SD loads that are much better than .22 -- or go magnum if you revolver allows.

 

[TAROMAN]

Nobody's mentioned it yet, but another option is to just load her up with 38 Short Colt cartridges:

 

[GypsmJim]

So she was talked out of getting a gun with which she would become proficient in favor of a loud paper weight. You need to talk to that salesman's supervisor. They clearly didn't have her best interest in mind. IDK about you but I'd much rather be missed by a 38 than hit by a 22. Too bad you couldn't take the gun back and let her look at a Ruger Mk III or something. It probably wouldn't hurt to enroll her in a self defense class or two. Training usually helps in these situations. Once she learns some proper shooting techniques she may even begin to like a little recoil.


This will give you somewhere to start.

38 cal Speer GDHP
Unique 5.4gr@947fps - 5.8gr@1065fps
W231 4.6gr@871fps - 5.0@971fps
I'd give Alliant and Hodgdon a call and see if theses loads can be reduced a little.

First of all, she's my buddy's wife and once her mind is made up its hard to change. My wife is quite competent and she will also listen to reason and is willing to practice.

Secondly, she already has a .22 and for her it works fine (actually it IS a Mk III). Hubby has a .38 and that's what has bothered her. The perception is that the recoil is why she can't hit the target. Up to now they have only used factory loads.

Her objective was a .22 snubby that would fit in the purse. I admit I'm the "salesman" that swayed her. My idea was to master the .22 100%, then switch to a lightly loaded .38, gradually building up confidence until she could master a full defense load befoore she actually put it in her purse. No sense buying a useless .22 snubby, only to trade it in for a .38 later.

Anyway, thanks to all for the load data. The recommendatiuons were spot on what I had planed to tell my buddy. Now that he has reloading equipment he won't be saddled with factory loads anymore.

Thanks again...