Reconsidering pepper spray

[Protected One]

I am reconsidering adding pepper spray to my carry equipment when I leave the house.
Having retired from LE but still living in the same town where I was stationed, I have always considered the possibility of a confrontation with an old suspect/defendant as a possibility.
However with today's current climate, some other folks seem to have become emboldened to challenge everyone for some perceived wrong.
Now being retired, I recognize that I no longer have a need to interact with these people and I will go out of my way to avoid them but some of the confrontations we are seeing, these idiots just will not take no, go away, for an answer.
No, I do not frequent bars or spots normally associated with less than civilized behavior, but that doesn't seem to matter any more. You are just as likely to be accosted in the grocery parking lot or at the gas pumps.
I am rapidly approaching my 62nd birthday and never was much of a boxer/fighter, (in the academy, during boxing week, an instructor noted that I could take a punch . . . lots of them). I can now envision a greater need to have a non-lethal option at my disposal.
I am always armed when it is permissible, so that is covered but it feels like having a non-lethal option might be prudent until things calm down.
Yes, I do carry a cell phone and will call proper authorities but I do not want to be looking at a phone when the threat is already closing the distance.
Any thoughts, suggestions?

The older we get the more likely ANY attack is to cause us great bodily harm or death, thus justifying the use of lethal force. That, combined with a past experience where pepper spray FAILED to do the job makes me less likely than ever to take chances with my life.

Today I turned 64, and am firmly in the "vulnerable population" category. Having never been a LEO and use to carrying multiple means of dealing with a threat, I choose to keep things simple: my firearm. If a situation presents itself where my verbal judo is unsuccessful, I don't intend to be confused as to what comes next.

 

[Protected One]

Unfortunately, there are also many times where it is not effective against dogs, as well. So, don't feel overconfident in regard to its effectiveness. (Though I applaud your decision...I am the same when it comes to dogs, by and large. I love mine and try to treat others well.)

I use to work for one of the local utility companies. After a big storm I was sent out (alone) to do "triage". All triage personnel were equipped with a hot stick, pepper spray, cell phone and yellow tape. I was forced to use the pepper spray on an attacking rottweilder ...and it was TOTALLY ineffective. Thank God for that hot stick! As a result, I am not inclined to put any faith in pepper spray.

 

[Mister X]

The older we get the more likely ANY attack is to cause us great bodily harm or death, thus justifying the use of lethal force. That, combined with a past experience where pepper spray FAILED to do the job makes me less likely than ever to take chances with my life.

Today I turned 64, and am firmly in the "vulnerable population" category. Having never been a LEO and use to carrying multiple means of dealing with a threat, I choose to keep things simple: my firearm. If a situation presents itself where my verbal judo is unsuccessful, I don't intend to be confused as to what comes next.

What type and specific model of OC? There's a huge range of different products(even from the same manufacturer) that vary greatly in effectiveness. Twist-top gel models bought in the supermarket checkout seem to be the most common type the average person buys and carries, but it's usually the last type any reputable instructors recommend.

Regardless of vulnerable population status, there is still a long list of potential scenarios where pepper spray would be the better choice. Sit down and talk with an experienced cop for half an hour an hour and they will tell you things they'll encountered you never imagined.

 

[Protected One]

What type and specific model of OC? There's a huge range of different products(even from the same manufacturer) that vary greatly in effectiveness. Twist-top gel models bought in the supermarket checkout seem to be the most common type the average person buys and carries, but it's usually the last type any reputable instructors recommend.

Regardless of vulnerable population status, there is still a long list of potential scenarios where pepper spray would be the better choice. Sit down and talk with an experienced cop for half an hour an hour and they will tell you things they'll encountered you never imagined.

It was 20 years ago so I don't know what type it was, but I don't imagine this major utility would send their people out with supermarket checkout items, they generally provided the best equipment available.

I know that there are lots of situations LEO's encountered where pepper spray is an option. But not being a LEO I won't encounter most of them. My best friend is a Sheriff's Deputy and we talk about this stuff all the time. He carries pepper spray - even gave me one but I won't carry it.

 

[Mister X]

I know that there are lots of situations LEO's encountered where pepper spray is an option. But not being a LEO I won't encounter most of them. My best friend is a Sheriff's Deputy and we talk about this stuff all the time. He carries pepper spray - even gave me one but I won't carry it.

The odds of needing a gun as a civilian are exceedingly low, but most of the members here carry one on a daily basis despite the hassles.

By contrast, carrying OC is very easy and gives you options, but to each his own.

 

[Naphtali]

After chatting with a Missoula County [deputy] sheriff, I bought three PepperBlaster II devices — one for me, one for my friend, and one to tryout to determine whether I wasted a lot of money.

They work. They are loud. They have significant precision delivering two distinct pepper payloads. The city of Missoula has no restriction or "issue" with the device when it is carried concealed.

They have a profile that "the other guy" might perceive as being a gun. And this benefit could reduce the confrontation, allowing me and "the other guy" to walk away.

 

[Old cop]

I'm in my middle 70s, handicapped, and recently added pepper spray for all the reasons previously stated. Also, I have a canister of pepper spray close to the front door of my house.

 

[haywood]

I figure if you have the time, use pepper first. If that doesn't work and you are in fear of life or bad injuries, shoot. At least you can show you tried not to shoot. It worked for me keeping a dog away long enough for me to leave.

 

[gnystrom]

A container of POM OC spray in every vehicle and in the vehicles of the ones I love. I have told them to carry it with them when they leave the vehicle and return it to the cup holder when they return.
Simple way to force them to be more aware of their surroundings when they are holding on to something before exiting their vehicle.

 

[Johnrh]

I know this is a somewhat older thread but here's my question. Regardless of SYG laws etc as almost no matter what you will be looked at for some sort of prosecution even though you may be justified after it's all said and done.

But....let's say you are confronted by an attacker and you use your gun to defend yourself. You are also carrying pepper spray. Isn't the prosecutor going to argue that you should have used the pepper spray first, as a deterrent, before using deadly force? I know they can use anything against you, but what will a jury think when you had a less deadly ability to deter the attacker?

And won't the civil suit also use the same argument?

Seems the pepper spray is a double edged sword.

 

[mckenney99]

Pepper spray is just another tool. Having pepper spray on your person does not mean you must go to that first if you are being threatened with serious physical harm or a lethal threat. Depending on the level of the threat being used against you, pepper spray will give you a tool to use if you are being threatened with less than lethal force or of serious physical harm. I also believe it is certainly preferable to drawing a firearm (because that is all you have) to try and dissuade a perceived threat. It sure beats being on the receiving end of a physical assault that has not escalated to something more serious and it MAY open up an avenue of escape or time to react in some other way.

Perhaps a review of the Dept of Justice's "Use of force Continuum" would be informative. While it normally is applied to law enforcement use of force, it is advisable for every armed citizen to be aware of it also.

The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice

 

[Johnrh]

Thanks, that's a good summary

 

[Protected One]

I keep a POM pepper spray in my car console but don't carry on my person. I have enough stuff to carry without adding anything else.

 

[fastreb999]

A long time ago, I decided that having options was a good thing. I have many people in my family that are/have been LEO, so I have heard stories where pepper spray did not work. These usually were people either high, drunk or mentally challenged. However, it does work most of the time, IMO, so I carry pepper gel wherever I go. This, of course, is in addition to my sidearm. This is a personal choice for everyone.

 

[Protected One]

If I may give a non-LEO opinion. I live in a state where self-defense is not a protected right, and the tools of that denied right can get you a felony conviction with prison time.

Fortunately, I possess a non-resident CWP for when I travel in FREE America. Being disabled, I can't carry a full compliment of non-lethal defensive options. Yes, a taser can be effective, but what if you are acosted by multiple threats? I also fear that some kind of spray would require the threats to get too close for comfort.

I don't think that I project myself as a threat, but perhaps more an aire of confidence. Being disabled with a noticeable limp and cane, I (unintentionally) project myself more as an easy target/victim.

I don't go out looking for trouble, but I also don't want any of my defensive tools to fall out of my possession or control. As a result, anyone that presents themselves from the start as a threat needs to be viewed as a dangerous threat from the start. It really does "oscillate air inwardly between the lips" when you are disabled and have to defend yourself and your family.

At a certain age I decided that the overriding focus would be on MY safety - not what the law might think or do in the aftermath of my defensive situation. If I find myself under threat or attack it is because my best efforts at avoiding trouble were unsuccessful (the criminals get a vote too, you know) and I now find myself in danger of death or great bodily harm. I will not be fumbling around or trying to figure out which "tool" to use. I will go with the one demonstrated to solve the problem if properly employed. The rest I can deal with with later, if necessary, but it won't matter much if I'm dead .

There have been enough stories told about people (mostly elderly) who died after being punched ONCE....not always from the punch itself, but from their head striking the curb or street where they fell. No thank you.

It is also a documented fact that tasers fail something like 50-60% of the time, for various reasons, and while I do keep a can of OC spray in my car, oc spray was ineffective in the one instance where I was attacked and needed it. So no thank you.

I carry a firearm....and pocket knife, but while that can be used as a weapon I don't view it as such. Just a handy tool for other stuff.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Civilians should steer clear of trying to operate under the constraints of law enforcement. LEO's receive extensive training in that model, and in the tools utilized. They have different goals. LEO's ultimately are trying to take the assailant into custody. Civilians are merely trying to get away, to try to make the assailant decide he's got something better to be doing at the moment, and in the end, survive . . .

Perhaps a review of the Dept of Justice's "Use of force Continuum" would be informative. While it normally is applied to law enforcement use of force, it is advisable for every armed citizen to be aware of it also.

The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice

 

[seldon14]

When I lived in town, I carried pepper spray specificly for dogs. Many dogs will appear or sound highly aggressive when they are not, and even many truly aggressive dogs can be dissuaded with some pepper spray.

 

[HardToHandle]

Serious question - does the COVID mask mandates make you think differently about pepper spray?

I will state while dogs are susceptible to COVID, they don't seem to be wearing mask in my neighborhood... yet.