Reconsidering thumb safeties on mouse guns... LC9s et al

[TTSH]

Background: Because of my excess weight, old age and plump shape, I have just two choices for practical carry: mouse guns in a pocket holster or use a shoulder holster. 99% of the time, it's a mouse-sized pistol in my pocket.

The Problem: Up until very recently, I was with the majority of gun enthusiasts I know in dissing most pistols with a thumb safety for one reason or another (other than single action, of course). But when the time came to thin the herd of excess mouse-sized plasticware for the sake of economic survival, I found myself hesitating to dump those mouse guns with thumb safeties. I found that very odd because that was the plan from the time I started to think about this plastic purge project months ago.

What is going on here? Is it just old age and senility setting in? Is it reading about too many instances of Glock leg lately? Is it the Sig P320 "drop & fire" fiasco? Am I losing confidence in myself? Is it the fact that I will soon have to carry much more often after we move?

Because "Massachusetts", I've ended up with more than my share of small, lightweight carry guns in both thumb safety and no thumb safety versions. MA commonly approves one version first and then the other... and, of course, I've got to have the latest and greatest. Or at least I did up until recently.

Part of the problem may be that in the last couple months, I have encountered far more people choosing carry guns with thumb safeties than not (almost 100%!). Now I even see pix on the Web of new Glocks bearing thumb safeties and reading about Sig P320 owners wanting thumb safeties too. Maybe it's all starting to have an effect on me.

So what would you do at this point? Stick to Plan A (dump the thumb safety pistols) or stop and reevaluate everything?

 

[Iggy]

Like you, I have a LC9s with a safety. It sounds like you and are in the same boat physically and have been downsizing my EDC guns. I am learning to accept striker fired guns, but I'm not yet ready to trust most of them in my pocket or even in a holster without a safety.

I do however, like the Kahr CW series of pistols.. They don't have safeties, but the long smooth trigger pull is like a double action revolver. I have taken that gun apart and learned how the firing pin block etc, works and I trust it. You have to want that gun to fire before it goes off.

 

[Walkingwolf]

If you feel more comfortable with safeties, then you should act on your carry requirements. I personally carry a 1911, but my pocket gun, NAA mini revolver, has no safety.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I would do whatever I had to do, to carry every time I leave the house. There are preferences, but my 4 carry rotation choices are all different. SA, DA, DA/SA, and Striker. The SA and Striker have a Safety. The variety is the result of experimentation, but they are all OK.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Personal preference. My own preference is for carry guns without manual safeties, though I wouldn't necessarily consider it a deal-breaker if a gun I wanted had one.

I think the deciding factor should be how well you can manipulate the manual safety. If you're comfortable with manipulating the safety, and can do so under stress, then stick with what's comfortable for you. However, if you can't consistently deactivate the safety quickly, or you're not confident in your ability to do so, for whatever reason, then you should probably switch to guns without a manual safeties.

I've seen the safeties on some mouse guns and I'd be concerned about being able to deactive them under stress because of the size and/or shape of the levers. Even if I could safely carry one with the safety off I would be concerned about inadvertently engaging it.

Just my opinion.

 

[TTSH]

Like you, I have a LC9s with a safety. It sounds like you and are in the same boat physically and have been downsizing my EDC guns. I am learning to accept striker fired guns, but I'm not yet ready to trust most of them in my pocket or even in a holster without a safety.

I do however, like the Kahr CW series of pistols.. They don't have safeties, but the long smooth trigger pull is like a double action revolver. I have taken that gun apart and learned how the firing pin block etc, works and I trust it. You have to want that gun to fire before it goes off.

Glad to know I am not the only one here who may, at times, feel better with a thumb safety-equipped mouse gun in my pocket. Like I said, my situation will be changing and maybe my old view may not be the correct view for my new circumstances.

 

[TTSH]

Personal preference. My own preference is for carry guns without manual safeties, though I wouldn't necessarily consider it a deal-breaker if a gun I wanted had one.

I think the deciding factor should be how well you can manipulate the manual safety. If you're comfortable with manipulating the safety, and can do so under stress, then stick with what's comfortable for you. However, if you can't consistently deactivate the safety quickly, or you're not confident in your ability to do so, for whatever reason, then you should probably switch to guns without a manual safeties.

I've seen the safeties on some mouse guns and I'd be concerned about being able to deactivate them under stress because of the size and/or shape of the levers. Even if I could safely carry one with the safety off I would be concerned about inadvertently engaging it.

Just my opinion.

Almost by definition, mouse gun thumb safeties tend to be small and hard to manipulate. Some would even argue that they should be that way to be of any real worth for pocket carry.

The truth is that I don't have much experience deactivating any of them under stress or specific training for same... which probably explains why, up until now, I have had a strong preference for no thumb safety on the mouse guns that I prefer to carry. But then why my sudden apprehension and second thoughts about purging the collection of my safety-equipped mouse guns? Again, most of them were bought because I didn't have any choice at the time I bought them. Choices came later in almost all cases.

Anyway, I'll think about it more before I continue the plastic purge. My circumstances are changing. I will need to carry more often in the future and in situations that aren't always as comfortable and convenient for carry as they are now.

 

[Spokes]

I have carried both....
My three main EDC are two revolver's and a Ruger LC9 pro no safety.
Of course I feel comfy with the 38's..
Feel OK with the pro..

 

[Stevens]

I find the thumb safety on the LC9s very convenient, intuitive,for me to use. I bought the "s" LC9 version instead of the Pro because of that. I have some other small pistols with thumb safeties that I find less convenient to use.
It is a matter of what you feel best, safest, carrying.
Good luck,
Steve

 

[richardw]

My pocket gun is Remington 380. It is the first gun
I ever owned or was issued that has no safety. It is hammer fired and double action only. It has long but smooth trigger pull. I carry it in a pocket holster. I have no safety concerns with. It is not going to go bang unlesswant it to..

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I've seen far too many well experienced guys stand up to the firing line and attempt to shoot their carry gun with the safety engaged. That's in a no stress environment... I reckon it doesn't get any better under high stress. Then compound the situation fumbling with miniature controls on mouse guns... no thanks.

 

[VThillman]

"Well experienced"? I guess it depends on the nature of the experience. I'm guessing it wasn't with a 1911.

Another 'forgot the safety' problem is related to range practice. Many ranges do not permit 'draw and fire' practice. If you have spent countless hours with an empty gun practicing draw and fire, with the safety release part of the procedure, picking up the loaded, safety-on gun from the bench short-circuits that practice.

 

[Old cop]

My pocket gun is an LCP which does not have a safety, but the trigger is similar to that of a J frame which is something I've carried & shot for years. It comes down to a training & experience issue. I've had to use deadly force during my LEO career and my experience is w/a revolver. If you fail to train & establish muscle memory then when something bad happens you might not have time to disengage that safety.

 

[TTSH]

I have carried both....
My three main EDC are two revolver's and a Ruger LC9 pro no safety.
Of course I feel comfy with the 38's..
Feel OK with the pro..

For the record, I've had one eye open for a Model 442 ever since I lost an outstanding deal at one shop for lack of time. Unfortunately, my other J-frames are all steel and too heavy for convenient pocket carry. I am not against revolvers for pocket carry provided they are airweights.

 

[TTSH]

I find the thumb safety on the LC9s very convenient, intuitive,for me to use. I bought the "s" LC9 version instead of the Pro because of that. I have some other small pistols with thumb safeties that I find less convenient to use.
It is a matter of what you feel best, safest, carrying.
Good luck,
Steve

I have both versions of the LC9s. When I carried the original, I never used the safety. When the Pro came along at a very attractive price, I went for it and it is still my most carried pocket mouse gun. So the question is: Why the heck can't I now bring myself to sell the original?

 

[TTSH]

I've seen far too many well experienced guys stand up to the firing line and attempt to shoot their carry gun with the safety engaged. That's in a no stress environment... I reckon it doesn't get any better under high stress. Then compound the situation fumbling with miniature controls on mouse guns... no thanks.

"Well experienced"? I guess it depends on the nature of the experience. I'm guessing it wasn't with a 1911.

Another 'forgot the safety' problem is related to range practice. Many ranges do not permit 'draw and fire' practice. If you have spent countless hours with an empty gun practicing draw and fire, with the safety release part of the procedure, picking up the loaded, safety-on gun from the bench short-circuits that practice.

Yeah, the range is a whole 'nother matter. Heck, how many times have we watched a Hickok45 video and seen him trip up when he forgot the safety was still on? In the safe, casual, low-stress environment of one's own or favorite range, it happens. It's neither a case for thumb safeties nor a case for no thumb safeties on pocket mouse guns that I can tell.

 

[TTSH]

My pocket gun is an LCP which does not have a safety, but the trigger is similar to that of a J frame which is something I've carried & shot for years. It comes down to a training & experience issue. I've had to use deadly force during my LEO career and my experience is w/a revolver. If you fail to train & establish muscle memory then when something bad happens you might not have time to disengage that safety.

I was recently able to snag an LCP II... not easy nor cheap in Massachusetts where it is not a state-blessed gun. I like it but I'm still left wondering if an original LCP would have been slightly better for my purposes.

Anyway, the single action/no thumb safety LCP II is supposed to replace my Bodyguard .380 in the rotation but I'm not quite there yet. Lord knows it is a simple enough gun to use but the savings in size vs. the Bodyguard just isn't there like it might have been with the original LCP.

 

[kaaskop49]

It comes down to what you are comfortable with. I spent a couple of hours in my buddy's LGS handling and trying to like the LCP and the LCP II... and then I bought another 642. I'm learning slowly how to fire double taps with 9mm Glocks and CZs, but the casino 64HB would be my choice if things go south.

The choice of an EDC, external safety or not, is a very personal matter that others cannot really help you with. There really is no wrong answer.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[eb07]

I am not a fan of manual safeties on my carry guns, but if you are comfortable with it and you train with it, I do not see the problem.


Personally I would rather pocket carry a 642/442 stoked with 135gr speer +p gold dot short barrel than any semi mouse gun in existence.

 

[Mister X]

It's all personal preference. I myself prefer no manual safety.

If choosing a model with a safety, I think it wise to practice accessing the weapon and disengaging the safety in a variety of conditions. Especially with small guns. You should do so while moving, from awkward positions as well as simulating possible real world situations. Simply standing there and performing repetitions like you would do at the range is not ideal since a high percentage of civilian defense scenarios are reactive and occur at close-quarters and under such conditions where you are having to move, fight off an assailant or could even be grounded, failing to immediately get the safety disengaged is a potential concern.

To some the safety pros outweigh the potential cons. Others like myself feel differently. There isn't really a right or wrong answer, just a matter of understanding the advantages and disadvantages of both and making an informed decision that you feel is right for you.