SAFireman
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Well, it sure looks interesting. I would bet that the story will be well worth the read.
Roscoe, the Triple-lock, has arrived
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handejector
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Interesting.
I understand all the mods except rounding off the frame knuckle. I cannot figure how that would help the feel of the grip, but I haven't held it. The grips look interesting and probably comfortable otherwise.
I would not change or restore a thing.
I would name him Roscoe.
I understand all the mods except rounding off the frame knuckle. I cannot figure how that would help the feel of the grip, but I haven't held it. The grips look interesting and probably comfortable otherwise.
I would not change or restore a thing.
I would name him Roscoe.
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The trigger guard would be an easy fix. The rest of the "improvements" would be really difficult to un do
Back in the day it was just another old gun, possibly with a bulged barrel or some other defects. You have to admit that who ever did it figured out just how much he could remove and still have it work and he did a pretty good job on the finish.
I would rather it had been left alone of course.
Back in the day it was just another old gun, possibly with a bulged barrel or some other defects. You have to admit that who ever did it figured out just how much he could remove and still have it work and he did a pretty good job on the finish.
I would rather it had been left alone of course.
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Interesting gun, Caleb! I look forward to hearing more about it when you get it.
I think these types of modifications/guns are a snapshot of a time period and are very interesting from a historical perspective. I use to see these guns frequently at shows, but have not for many years. That leads me to believe that a lot of folks did these Fitz specials back in the day.
I think Caleb bought a piece of history and I am with Lee, I would not change a thing. The revolver is like a Chopper motorcycle, or Rat Rod or Willys MB with a lift kit and 8-Track player—a reflection of a period of time.
Sure it would be great to have the original Willys MB, but no one thought of that back in the day. Someone wanted a monster mudder and to blast Foghat. Here someone wanted a hard-core, concealed carry piece.
I think Caleb bought a piece of history and I am with Lee, I would not change a thing. The revolver is like a Chopper motorcycle, or Rat Rod or Willys MB with a lift kit and 8-Track player—a reflection of a period of time.
Sure it would be great to have the original Willys MB, but no one thought of that back in the day. Someone wanted a monster mudder and to blast Foghat. Here someone wanted a hard-core, concealed carry piece.
I love it, and would keep it exactly as is. Custom guns meld the factory's design, the owners desires, and the craftsman's talent, over the entire human scale of capabilities. There's a lot more story there than "the day it left the factory".
Fitz wrote about "tricks" that usually involved twisting an opponents gun away, and breaking their trigger finger in the process. IMO that's why he cut trigger guards, to protect the owner from that action.
Fitz wrote about "tricks" that usually involved twisting an opponents gun away, and breaking their trigger finger in the process. IMO that's why he cut trigger guards, to protect the owner from that action.
OP
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Well awesome, everyone seems to be having fun with this thread! I had really hoped as much. This gun I believe is a type that elicits strong emotions. I love that kind of gun.
Jim summed up a lot of what people have said, I've taken a snippit out here:
First off, I did get it for a low price, not peanuts, but a price that is low enough I am very pleased with the gun, despite it's issues (I must admit that I, like most of you, find the fitz job in particular to be horrifying).
I intend to do nothing to the gun aside from cleaning it well, hopefully finding a nice Star on the butt (and getting corresponding SWHF documents, hey a guy can dream can't he?), and maybe trying my hand at making additional grips for it. I have this dream of learning how to jig bone, but that's a topic for another day.
I believe some, or many, of the questions people have regarding the gun are answered in an article out of the March '35 American Rifleman, along with (what I believe you will agree with me on), a firm resolve not to actually change the gun.
When this gun was pointed out to me I recognized it instantly as an example of Frank Frisbie style butchery, particularly the "complete removal of the much-cussed hump on the grip".
As sad as it all is, the way that Frank fully admits what he did horrified collectors... in 1935 no less... well there's a certain charm there to me.
I hope you all get as much entertainment out of our poor butchered Roscoe as I already have, even before having it in hand.
Oh, last note: this is obviously not the gun in the picture. The sight is different, and the stocks are obviously different. However this gun clearly was inspired by (or maybe inspired?) Frank.
My hope of course (being me) is that someone was reading their new copy of American Rifleman, and found this article, and thought; "This frank guy is onto something, I hate that much cussed hump too! I think I'll send it back to S&W with a copy of this article and have them improve this gun to Frank's specifications!"
Of course I doubt that will happen, but it's fun to dream about.
Jim summed up a lot of what people have said, I've taken a snippit out here:
First off, I did get it for a low price, not peanuts, but a price that is low enough I am very pleased with the gun, despite it's issues (I must admit that I, like most of you, find the fitz job in particular to be horrifying).
I intend to do nothing to the gun aside from cleaning it well, hopefully finding a nice Star on the butt (and getting corresponding SWHF documents, hey a guy can dream can't he?), and maybe trying my hand at making additional grips for it. I have this dream of learning how to jig bone, but that's a topic for another day.
I believe some, or many, of the questions people have regarding the gun are answered in an article out of the March '35 American Rifleman, along with (what I believe you will agree with me on), a firm resolve not to actually change the gun.
When this gun was pointed out to me I recognized it instantly as an example of Frank Frisbie style butchery, particularly the "complete removal of the much-cussed hump on the grip".
As sad as it all is, the way that Frank fully admits what he did horrified collectors... in 1935 no less... well there's a certain charm there to me.
I hope you all get as much entertainment out of our poor butchered Roscoe as I already have, even before having it in hand.
Oh, last note: this is obviously not the gun in the picture. The sight is different, and the stocks are obviously different. However this gun clearly was inspired by (or maybe inspired?) Frank.
My hope of course (being me) is that someone was reading their new copy of American Rifleman, and found this article, and thought; "This frank guy is onto something, I hate that much cussed hump too! I think I'll send it back to S&W with a copy of this article and have them improve this gun to Frank's specifications!"
Of course I doubt that will happen, but it's fun to dream about.
Yes, it is kind of like late 50s Cadillacs. In the 70s nobody wanted them, you could get one for a couple hundred and make it into a great demo derby car. Now they are worth big bucks. A 2 door 53 Chevy was a $100. I could have bought a nice 55 2 door post for $350.
Triple locks, 455s, 1917s were all just cheap old guns at one time. M1 carbines. When I was about 16 the local Tempo store had racks of 1917 Enfolds and Springfields priced at $17.95, buy as many as you could get in you car
Triple locks, 455s, 1917s were all just cheap old guns at one time. M1 carbines. When I was about 16 the local Tempo store had racks of 1917 Enfolds and Springfields priced at $17.95, buy as many as you could get in you car
OP
Modified
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I get you, but then again look at this line from the article;
"The next thing was the butchering process, which was fast and furious while it lasted; and some of the onlookers who loved the old Triple-Locks, threw up their hands in holy horror, declaring that a beautiful old six-gun was being cruelly disfigured."
And remember, this was in 1935!
I don't think so, the sight notch would show like it does on the Frisbie gun in the article above.
When I shoot magnum or heavy loads in a Smith, the knuckle is what causes me pain. When I shoot those same loads in a Colt or Ruger SA they're much more comfortable to shoot because they don't have the knuckle, which I've always felt was because no knuckle allows the gun to roll up in the hand and dissipate the straight back recoil.
I believe it's a distinct advantage, and agree with Frisbie especially on a DA with such a short barrel and that's had the frame lightened.
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Barbarian-CBX
Member
A little duct tape and WD40 would get it back to original.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
OP
Modified
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One question I have is regarding the front sight.
It looks a great deal to me like a Baughman ramp. I was curious if anyone was going to comment on it. I am kind of fixated on sights typically, but it was one of the first things that drew my eye, particularly because it had me wondering if it was a sight that anyone might recognize the make of to give clues about who did the work.
Although, likely it will take better pictures to suss that out.
It looks a great deal to me like a Baughman ramp. I was curious if anyone was going to comment on it. I am kind of fixated on sights typically, but it was one of the first things that drew my eye, particularly because it had me wondering if it was a sight that anyone might recognize the make of to give clues about who did the work.
Although, likely it will take better pictures to suss that out.
Probably not that many by Fitzgerald himself, but he was certainly the inspiration for generations of Bubbas. I can see Fitz, being an experimenter, trying out the cutaway trigger guard and it may have worked well for him. For pretty much everyone since, they have engaged in simple butchery.
OP
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Oh, and I just realized that I should have added that the S/N is purported to be 8493
Which I don't think is right because the Database has that as an Australian shipped triple lock. So we will have to wait until its in hand to see what the S/N actually is
Which I don't think is right because the Database has that as an Australian shipped triple lock. So we will have to wait until its in hand to see what the S/N actually is
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No sir, I don't like it.
handejector
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Odd, to me.
Is a King Super Target with short action and doublecockeyed hammer and a widened, checkered trigger and checkered gripstraps horrifying? It's a heavily modified gun......
Is a Bowen 38/44 turned into a 45 Colt horrifying?
I used to think so.
Now, I've come to appreciate them for what they are- guns built to suit the taste of a particular person. The only ones I feel are horrifying are the Bubba jobs done so crudely that the guy should not have been working beyond his ability.
In 2014, I had a bunch of guns laid out at Tulsa that I did not want to sell, but I needed some cash, so I figured I'd sell till I got some $$$ and pull the survivors off the table.
One of the guns was what I called my "Poor man's K-38". It was a 6" M&P from 1930, shipped to a dealer in Cincinatti. I had bought it off a table at Tulsa in 2012---
It had some great grips by an unknown maker-
It had a neatly checkered trigger--
The guy must have been a "thumb hooker" like me, so he deepened the notch on the hammer for surer cocking--
It had a really neat treatment on the front sight that turned it into a shark fin--
Unfortunately, the pic of the rear face is blurred, so you cannot see the really neat glare proofing the guy did. He had used a round or half round file to roll a very finely grooved pattern of cross hatching onto the surface that it took magnification to fully appreciate!---
I often held that old gun checking out the mods. It really spoke to me. The mods were done with a high skill level. It had been shot a LOT. Something had to go, so I stuck $600 on the gun, figuring that might protect it. But Tom Selleck came along and noticed the grips and I pointed out the other mods, and he bought the damned thing! At least it went to a good home.
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I'll bet it brought as much comfort to the guy who carried it as is does horror to collectors then and now.
I've never bought the argument that removing the front of trigger guard was necessary for men with big hands for one reason: Bill Jordan never had it done (although he did shave the right side), and he could palm Elmer Keith's head - hat and all.
I've never bought the argument that removing the front of trigger guard was necessary for men with big hands for one reason: Bill Jordan never had it done (although he did shave the right side), and he could palm Elmer Keith's head - hat and all.
Roscoe would be welcome at my dinner table any night of the week! I'd even see if I could dig out a drop of my step-dad's Five Mile Woods moon shine for toasts.
handejector
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To each his own.
I don't mind the roll-up in a SA. I have owned and done a lot of shooting with both Colts and Rugers. The roll-up actually helps in rapid shooting because the thumb is closer to the spur, allowing "hook and sling" cocking.
Since I was always fond of DA shooting, rolling up is a disadvantage. The hand must be repositioned, retarding the time for the next shot. That does not make sense in a belly gun. Just hold on tight and get used to how it feels.
ODD also, to me, that the guy in the article grooved the trigger. In my DA shooting, I much prefer smooth triggers. Grooved triggers chew up my finger after a bunch of shooting. I guess you guys will be horrified by the triggers I have smoothed, like my 1950 44 Mil and my 1926 Trans 44......
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