In NYC that's called a "throwaway" or a "plant" gun when all manufacturer's identifying marks are removed.
s&w model 39
- Thread starter kharmakid
- Start date
In NYC that's called a "throwaway" or a "plant" gun when all manufacturer's identifying marks are removed.
Special order; Presented on Retirement
Trooper's name and "years of service"??? "badge number"???? "Unit number"??
Looks like Foxy and I were typing the same thoughts.....
It could very well be his badge number,but 25 is pretty low,,he passed in 2016, and was a senior firearms instructor for the NYSP for years, my thoughts, he paid the price for it to be custom numbered or a replacement frame.
Im not referring to marks being removed, I mean they never had any at all to begin with. The guns you refer to were cheap 32 cal that could be gotten from Pool Hall Johnny or Vito down on the corner.
"G. Slingerland" name engraved ? I tried searching Slingerland, then with, Gary, George, Greg. All you guys, have at it. There's an answer somewhere, I think. Slingerland, brand drums and other musical instruments is one.
It is likely a modified M39 by some lesser known gunsmith but seems odd as altering a serial number of a firearm is illegal. However, what year was it that serial numbers became mandatory. Prior to some certain year (was it 1968), serial numbers were not mandatory. Someone up on those gun laws, please jump in here.
Look at 2nd enlargement ... there's a latent, misplaced " 7 " in the upper left.
It is likely a modified M39 by some lesser known gunsmith but seems odd as altering a serial number of a firearm is illegal. However, what year was it that serial numbers became mandatory. Prior to some certain year (was it 1968), serial numbers were not mandatory. Someone up on those gun laws, please jump in here.
Look at 2nd enlargement ... there's a latent, misplaced " 7 " in the upper left.
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squidsix
Member
I have lettered some boring guns and got boring (as expected) results. This one's letter will be very interesting indeed.
Have to be honest, I dont see the 7. But is the 5 just oh so slightly higher? I have never read how the Sns were applied? Not free hand. Were they roll stamped on a wheel or stamps held in a vise somehow? I really dont know. Im hoping the gun is correct with a replacement frame or maybe a factory Fri. afternoon part. Just chime in. The mystery may be solved by a Jinks Letter.
flagman1776
Member
It sure is an odd duck, with a low number but later engineering features. I'm going to call it real because I don't believe the frame could have been refinished to that appearance.
The " 7 " is clearly there. See the 2nd photo I enlarged, and the 3rd photo, even larger of the exact area. Follow the dual, track like, scratches that go up from the M of Model. Where that scratch comes to a stop, the scratches go directly over the 7.
Up that high could have been part of an inventory number of a Police gun or some such. Not that it is part of the serial number.
It's surely been refinished. In a modification, which I surmise this is ... "anything" is possible.
perhaps remove the stocks and take good close up photos of the flat areas under the stocks, too.
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M39
Yes i see the area you are refering to,although it does have the appearance of a 7, under magnification of a 10 x loupe it isnt,its a series of scratches from the slide stop, i will be calling S&W tomorrow for details on obtaining a letter.
Yes i see the area you are refering to,although it does have the appearance of a 7, under magnification of a 10 x loupe it isnt,its a series of scratches from the slide stop, i will be calling S&W tomorrow for details on obtaining a letter.
I wish you guys could see the actual pistol,the cell phone photos are not that great, but you have all been a wealth of information, you have devoted much time in your research and im sure the family will be gratefull!!!
Hello kid, a call to S&W is useless. Go to Mr. Jinks for the straight poop.
kwill1911
Member
Go to "Downloads" at the top of this page and follow the trail to the letter request form.
The "bottom line " is the first S&W 9mm (pre-39) in 1954 or was it 55 was 1001 and the no-dash ended IIRC in 57 at 2600.........
So 25 is an outlier ...............with a back story!!!
So 25 is an outlier ...............with a back story!!!
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Highest, verified, pre-39 is SN: 2625, still having short safety lever, short frame tail and unrelieved (for safety lever as is did not need it).
It is presumed, somewhere in the early 5000s the frame size was a bit elongated at the duck tail, with longer safety lever and relieved stocks (grips) for safety lever.
There is much yet to be learned between the mid 2600s and the early 5000s. It is thought, per author Kevin Williams' research, that likely a block of numbers in this range were reserved for the Model 41s.
The OPs post shows is a much newer configuration MODEL 39 to about mid to late 1960s by features and other recorded details on similar known, boxed, models discovered and verified ANIB from reliable sources.
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KharmaKid... can you post a pic of the other side of the pistol in your album?
BTW if you join the SWCA you get access to serial number ship dates on the Members side of this forum. To beat waiting on a letter you could do that then follow the thread for Ship Dates. The s/n will surly stick out as not on the books... but that should cause a flag to go up and more research done. You can also email or contact Roy Jinks if you are a SWCA member which has nothing to do with this forum in truth. Waiting 3-10 weeks for a letter will likely just get you a s/n not on the books or something like that. I would try to access Roy's knowledge of this through the SWCA. JMO of course.
BTW if you join the SWCA you get access to serial number ship dates on the Members side of this forum. To beat waiting on a letter you could do that then follow the thread for Ship Dates. The s/n will surly stick out as not on the books... but that should cause a flag to go up and more research done. You can also email or contact Roy Jinks if you are a SWCA member which has nothing to do with this forum in truth. Waiting 3-10 weeks for a letter will likely just get you a s/n not on the books or something like that. I would try to access Roy's knowledge of this through the SWCA. JMO of course.
M39 update
After speaking today with the NYSP, the serial number is indeed the shield number of Trooper slingerland. The pistol was dissasembled today and under magnification the following was found.
Front frame rails left and right side .094
Frame rails at the end of engraving .094
Height of frame at front .617
Serial number height .125
Machine marks consistent on both sides of frame
No indication of refinish
Markings on frame, p on front of left trigger guard, number 7 located on left lower frame upper right of lower grip screw estucheon. Ive filled out my paper work for mr jinks and enclosed photos of this pistol to him,,now we shall wait for the results, ive posted a final photo of the dissasembled pistol in my album,,thanks to all,,,regards, chris
After speaking today with the NYSP, the serial number is indeed the shield number of Trooper slingerland. The pistol was dissasembled today and under magnification the following was found.
Front frame rails left and right side .094
Frame rails at the end of engraving .094
Height of frame at front .617
Serial number height .125
Machine marks consistent on both sides of frame
No indication of refinish
Markings on frame, p on front of left trigger guard, number 7 located on left lower frame upper right of lower grip screw estucheon. Ive filled out my paper work for mr jinks and enclosed photos of this pistol to him,,now we shall wait for the results, ive posted a final photo of the dissasembled pistol in my album,,thanks to all,,,regards, chris
Engine49guy
Member
Doesnt surprise me because in the time frame S&W still kept spare frames in the vault that were void of serials,
would have been very easy to pull a frame, stamp serial 25 then assemble it and ship, also could have been ordered with a batch of guns for the PD.
Or could have been ordered as just a frame and assembled at the PD armory.
Had his badge number been above 1001 there would have been a big problem.
would have been very easy to pull a frame, stamp serial 25 then assemble it and ship, also could have been ordered with a batch of guns for the PD.
Or could have been ordered as just a frame and assembled at the PD armory.
Had his badge number been above 1001 there would have been a big problem.
one eye joe
US Veteran
WELCOME TO THE FORUM, Kharmakid......
I'M AN OL' GEEZER THAT'S BEEN AROUND HERE FOR A MINUTE, SO I WILL ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PASS ON A TIP TO YOU. IF ADHERED TO, THIS WILL ENDEAR YOU TO THE FORUM AS A VALUABLE NEW MEMBER. IT IS AS FOLLOWS.....
WE LOVE GUN PORN ! ! ! THAT MEANS THAT WE SIT UP AND TAKE JOYFUL NOTICE OF POSTS ACCOMPANIED BY PHOTOS......
WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY TAKE A WHILE TO MASTER THE TECHNOLOGY---BUT EVEN A COMPUTER NITWIT LIKE MYSELF, HAS LEARNED TO POST PICTURES. SO GIVE IT A TRY, AND DON'T BE AFRAID....
MEANWHILE, CONGRATS ON YOUR FINE SOUNDING M39. I CAN'T ACTUALLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BUT THE NICKEL M39-2 IS MY FAVORITE S&W SEMI-AUTO PISTOL OF ALL TIME ! ! !
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Joe, left click on his user name and then click on Visit Photo Album at the bottom of the menu that appears. His pictures are there.
I'm waiting to see what Roy's research shows. This is going to be very "educational" for all.
I hope that a "Letter of Authenticity" from the SWHF that has been researched by Mr. Roy Jinks will satisfy our quest for an education
on this most interesting mod-39.
on this most interesting mod-39.
Very nice pistol. Shield #25 with the NYSP is indeed special in and of itself. What rank did he retire at? He was most certainly a high ranking officer, not just a Trooper. Considering the close working relationship that the NYSP has with their firearms suppliers, S&W providing a special pistol for this Troopers retirement gift does no surprise me in the least. Their acceptance of a firearm into service is greatly sought after by manufacturers. It is seen as legitimizing their product. Glock sales took off after the NYSP accepted them as their handgun supplier.
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one eye joe
US Veteran
OKAY TOM, I'LL GIVE IT A TRY---AND THANKS ! ! !
