Smith & Wesson bringing back no internal lock revolvers for 2024?

[dozer]

They look pretty nice, good additions to the Centennial models

 

[mchom]

This may have been said in earlier post. I think Colts success with the Python might be changing mindsets. And I heard something on Youtube about a possible DLC Python. Interesting times.

 

[ladder13]

 

[JWintergreen]

I'm not getting revolver vibes from that ad campaign. It seems that S&W will come out with a cure for cancer before they make a K/L/N frame revolver without a lock.

 

[hkcavalier]

Got it covered!

I do too, somewhat, but I'd rather get new no-IL guns than hunt for nice used examples. I enjoy the uncertainty of the hunt, but certain boxes need to be checked.

 

[Well Armed]

This is interesting. Both of these new Lipsey's models don't have locks. They're still J-frame Centennial models, but it's encouraging to see.

Lipsey's Exclusive: Smith & Wesson Ultimate Carry J-Frame - YouTube

Those are trims to revolvers that already existed without a lock. Is this what all the hype was about? What some had it on "good authority" from some super secret personal high up in S&W's organization? This is nothing new at all.

This is the same annual hype. I knew S&W wasn't offering K, L, N, etc frames without the IL. Now we'll have to wait until the Jan 22 for S&W to reveal their new clothing line, knife, SAO revolver or lever action rifle to put this rumor to rest for another 12 months.

 

[Well Armed]

Smith's revolver sales have been consistently above 200k. They sold more during panic buy eras but stay pretty consistent. 2014-2016 was the Sandy Hook, Obama AWB, and Hillary scare. Sales dropped when Trump was elected. Sales jumped after COVID and George Floyd. Now it's a buyer's market again, so their sales have dropped. In any event, it doesn't seem that Colt, Ruger, or any other revolver manufacturer have hurt Smiths sales to the point that they would be forced to consider removing the IL. S&W has been out selling their competitors even with having the IL. Colt's price point compared to S&W and Ruger will always get in its way. Despite the loud minority, most consumers are still buying and prefer S&W revolvers regardless of the lock. Many Smith, Ruger, Kimber, and Taurus fanboys do not like the "pull" cylinder release or the fact that the cylinder revolvers in the opposite direction, which they see as a serious con and bottlenecked for self-defense applications as it's counterproductive to what they're use to. In any event, S&W revolver sales have remained steady despite Colt's re-emergence.

Revolvers Manufactured:

Smith & Wesson
2013 -> 225,777
2014 -> 268,722
2015 -> 274,136
2016 -> 294,680
2017 -> 207,384
2018 -> 210,333
2019 -> 515,381
2021 -> 232,476

Ruger
2013 -> 295,661
2014 -> 281,430
2015 -> 256,185
2016 -> 249,548
2017 -> 172,104
2018 -> 145,534
2019 -> 184,197
2021 -> 276,999

Colt
2013 -> 4
2014 -> 2,217
2015 -> 1,492
2016 -> 943
2017 -> 7,342
2018 -> 16,697
2019 -> 21,049
2021 -> 65,062

 

[Model 15-4ever]

... We have a highly credible, well-placed industry professional strongly indicating we'll see this announced in a couple days.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I'm not getting revolver vibes from that ad campaign. It seems that S&W will come out with a cure for cancer before they make a K/L/N frame revolver without a lock.

Maybe more Chinese made clothing and gas station grade knives.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Smith's revolver sales have been consistently above 200k. They sold more during panic buy eras but stay pretty consistent. 2014-2016 was the Sandy Hook, Obama AWB, and Hillary scare. Sales dropped when Trump was elected. Sales jumped after COVID and George Floyd. Now it's a buyer's market again, so their sales have dropped. In any event, it doesn't seem that Colt, Ruger, or any other revolver manufacturer have hurt Smiths sales to the point that they would be forced to consider removing the IL. S&W has been out selling their competitors even with having the IL. Colt's price point compared to S&W and Ruger will always get in its way. Despite the loud minority, most consumers are still buying and prefer S&W revolvers regardless of the lock. Many Smith, Ruger, Kimber, and Taurus fanboys do not like the "pull" cylinder release or the fact that the cylinder revolvers in the opposite direction, which they see as a serious con and bottlenecked for self-defense applications as it's counterproductive to what they're use to. In any event, S&W revolver sales have remained steady despite Colt's re-emergence.

Revolvers Manufactured:

Smith & Wesson
2013 -> 225,777
2014 -> 268,722
2015 -> 274,136
2016 -> 294,680
2017 -> 207,384
2018 -> 210,333
2019 -> 515,381
2021 -> 232,476

Ruger
2013 -> 295,661
2014 -> 281,430
2015 -> 256,185
2016 -> 249,548
2017 -> 172,104
2018 -> 145,534
2019 -> 184,197
2021 -> 276,999

Colt
2013 -> 4
2014 -> 2,217
2015 -> 1,492
2016 -> 943
2017 -> 7,342
2018 -> 16,697
2019 -> 21,049
2021 -> 65,062

Again, the majority of those guns that Big Blue is selling are run-of-the-mill J-Frames that John Q Public buys for the wife, Susie Soccer-Mom, after the Gun Shop Counter-Monkey recommend it for her self-defense.

Those guns basically get half a box of overpriced .38 Special +P shot through 'em and they live the rest of their lives in sock drawers, the top of closet shelves, the bottom of purses, and in car center-consoles or glove-boxes.

That's S&W's number one selling revolver. The bargain basement Model 642, with and without the lock.

Until Colt makes such a gun at the same price, they won't overtake S&W. Ruger's LCR is their attempt to go after that segment since the SP101 is overpriced and a brick. Taurus does well with their Model 85 and Model 856, since those are usually dirt cheap and the thrifty buyer likes 'em.

The Colt Cobra, is still too highly priced to compete against the bog-standard Model 642.

 

[Well Armed]

Again, the majority of those guns that Big Blue is selling are run-of-the-mill J-Frames that John Q Public buys for the wife, Susie Soccer-Mom, after the Gun Shop Counter-Monkey recommend it for her self-defense.

Those guns basically get half a box of overpriced .38 Special +P shot through 'em and they live the rest of their lives in sock drawers, the top of closet shelves, the bottom of purses, and in car center-consoles or glove-boxes.

That's S&W's number one selling revolver. The bargain basement Model 642, with and without the lock.

Until Colt makes such a gun at the same price, they won't overtake S&W. Ruger's LCR is their attempt to go after that segment since the SP101 is overpriced and a brick. Taurus does well with their Model 85 and Model 856, since those are usually dirt cheap and the thrifty buyer likes 'em.

The Colt Cobra, is still too highly priced to compete against the bog-standard Model 642.

I agree about Colt. I do not understand why some beleive Colt is going to give S&W problems selling $1k King Cobras and $1400-$1600 Pythons and Anacondas. S&W mostly sells a vast variety of aluminum, steel, titanium, and even polymer J-frame that both Colt and Ruger aren't competing against. Heck, S&W also offers j-frames in DAO concealed hammer and even with a humpback. I own a LCR and it's a great revolver, but Ruger has the MSRP on them close to $900 now! I wanted a Python, but purchased a 686+ and a Model 69 Combat Magnum for less than the $1800 one Python was selling for at the time. I can still purchase two K or L frames for the price of one Python. Most who are in the market for a simple larger frame revolver aren't going to want to pay twice the amount for a Colt just to avoid the lock that can be removed or simply ignored as the IL is a non issue with larger framed revolvers. It's only an issue with 357 out of light weight titanium and aluminum J-frame revolvers which can already be had without the IL.

There are a lot of assumptions about how bad S&W is doing with regards to their revolver sales especially with regards to both the IL and Colt that just aren't factually true per the numbers.

 

[mchom]

I'm not sure Colt is giving SW problems. Perhaps the noteworthy sales of Pythons is encouraging to SW to pursue additional market share.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I agree about Colt. I do not understand why some beleive Colt is going to give S&W problems selling $1k King Cobras and $1400-$1600 Pythons and Anacondas. S&W mostly sells a vast variety of aluminum, steel, titanium, and even polymer J-frame that both Colt and Ruger aren't competing against. Heck, S&W also offers j-frames in DAO concealed hammer and even with a humpback. I own a LCR and it's a great revolver, but Ruger has the MSRP on them close to $900 now! I wanted a Python, but purchased a 686+ and a Model 69 Combat Magnum for less than the $1800 one Python was selling for at the time. I can still purchase two K or L frames for the price of one Python.

There are a lot of assumptions about how bad S&W is doing with regards to their revolver sales especially with regards to both the IL and Colt that just aren't factually true per the numbers.

Pythons are now averaging $1,300, give or take a few bucks.

.38 Special LCRs are not $900 guns. They're $500 guns.

642s are usually in the $450 range.

Meanwhile, Taurus guns are usually $100 less.

While Colt Cobra the priciest .38 snub-nose on the market.

 

[Hapworth]

If you're not interested in the product, cool -- but emoji-implying that none of it played out as called is blinkered.


Darryl Bolke is those things; he indicated get ready for more no lock options with some serious tweaks, and that's what dropped.

 

[Well Armed]

If you're not interested in the product, cool -- but emoji-implying that none of it played out as called is blinkered.


Darryl Bolke is those things; he indicated get ready for more no lock options with some serious tweaks, and that's what dropped.

Those were models that already existed without the lock. They simply added sights, different grips, etc to what was already on the market. That's completely different then what was implied. The way it was implied was that S&W would offer a new no lock option that was previously only available with the lock.

 

[Tom S.]

I warned you if the bashing kept up, the thread would be closed. Here's me, keeping my promise.