Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??

[Nalapombu]

Hey all,

I saw an interesting back and forth somewhere a couple days ago where the subject was what 357mag Snubby to carry. Not long after it started the debate kinda switched to whether packing 357mag loads actually gives you an edge over the 38 special and 38 Special +P loads. Quite a few were saying that since the barrel is as short as it is the 357mag doesn't have enough barrel to achieve its ideal velocity and therefore you are better off using a good 38 Special load with less recoil for better and more accurate follow up shots.

I don't know if that's true or not. That's why I thought I'd ask you guys (and gals) cause I know you all have lots of experience in this area and will know for sure.

If you pick up a sweet 357mag Snubby like the M&P340 or the 640 pro, what would you put in it to carry, full house 357 mag or a proven 38 special +P load?

Lastly....if you were going to carry a 357mag Snub....which one would you choose and why?


Thanks for your time and help.
Have a good weekend.
Larry

 

[Lightfoot4]

I'll let others argue the science and statistics behind the rounds they use, but from my experience in just shooting my firearms, and from the fact that the 38 Special is a good defense round, that's what I load in ALL my .357 and .38 Special revolvers, no matter what they're rated for. I load with what I practice with, and that's plain Jane .38 Special.

 

[eb07]

Here is what I measured out of mine:

The difference between the low end 38+p and the 357 magnum:

473 fps 315 ft lbs energy

The difference between the high end 38+p and the 357 magnum:

282 fps 204 ft lbs of energy

The recoil is way more though so it is slower on followups and split times go up.

If you want a jump from 38 in a snub. Get a 44 charter bulldog. Bigger bullet, less recoil than the 38

 

[7shooter]

Read Greg Ellifritz on " Handgun Stopping Power " . Free on the internet. So far it is the best research I have found on caliber comparisons in real world self defense shootings.

The quick summary is that caliber makes almost no difference when talking about the common handgun calibers. Rifles and shotguns work significantly better.

BTW if anyone has seen better research please post it here . I am looking for any updates. Thanks.

 

[petepeterson]

If you're asking whether it's worth it to use .357, that's a subjective argument.

It's pretty hard to argue the physics between the two, short barrel or not.

 

[ImDrRich]

Most of my life I've been a J-frame guy who loves snubbies. I have carried a stainless model 60 in .38 spl with a 1 7/8 bbl., and a Model 60 .357 mag with 2 1/4 bbl.

I think there is a vast difference between the two calibers. The .357 magnum is a devastating weapon, particularly when used with the appropriate ammo loads for short-barreled guns. Follow-up shots are not complicated, provided that you have practiced, practiced, practiced and are comfortable in resetting the trigger and bringing the gun back to center mass. There is no other way to do this (i.e., master the caliber and shot placement) without dedicated practice.

Lately, I have been carrying my newer acquisition, the S&W L-Frame 686+ with 2 1/2 bbl and .357 magnum. Obviously it is larger and not for pocket carry, but the benefits of its weight and size help control beyond expectations. This model is, from posts here, likely S&Ws most popular revolver (in different barrel lengths). the 686+ handles .357 magnum rounds surprisingly easily and makes .38 spl seem like .22LR. Your mileage may vary.

Whatever you do, enjoy this great "hobby" of ours, get good at it, practice safety at all times, and develop the high degree of self-confidence that you might need if you carry on a regular basis.

Rich

 

[Cal44]

Another thing to check is the Luckygunner tests of 38 special and 357 Magnum.

357 Magnum gives significantly higher muzzle energy and better expansion -- even in 2" barrels.

It may be a bit slower getting back on target for a second shot.

That's a matter of practice. Shooting 357 Magnum requires more practice.

But if you score a well placed center of mass shot with a 357 Magnum you may not need a second shot.

 

[Erich]

First of all, look at this: www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/8/


Here are some of my personal chrono results with Speer 135-gr short barrel Gold Dot hollow point handloads - I recall both of these loadings were developed from the Speer # 14, but I take no responsibility for your loads:



.38 Special (5950' > sea level): 6.4 grains of Power Pistol, standard primer, 1 7/8" 37-2: M 854.3 fps/ES 78.9/SD 40.66


.357 Magnum (same range): 9.6 grains of Power Pistol, magnum primer, 2 1/8" 640-1: M 1136 fps/S 88.49/D 33.22

 

[ContinentalOp]

There is no doubt that even in short, snubby barrels the .357 Magnum will generate more velocity than a .38 Special, +P or standard pressure, given the same bullet weight.

However, as has been pointed out above, in the real world the service calibers all perform about the same. So, taking "stopping power" off the table, what we are left with is that the .357 Magnum will generate more recoil, muzzle blast, and, depending on the load, muzzle flash.

To me, whatever velocity gains the .357 Magnum has is overshadowed by the higher difficulty in getting quick hits on target. For self defense, I don't see a reason to go magnum when .38 Special +P will do the job with better shootability.

But, if you prefer the .357 Magnum in a snub, it's reliable in your gun, and you can shoot it well, there's nothing wrong with doing so.

Just my opinion.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I am pretty sure that I do not want to be hit with either one and neither would an assailant.

 

[typetwelve]

Here is what I measured out of mine:



The recoil is way more though so it is slower on followups and split times go up.

If you want a jump from 38 in a snub. Get a 44 charter bulldog. Bigger bullet, less recoil than the 38

I'll say that my bulldog can be quite the hand smacker...more than any .38 J frame I ever owned. With that said, I'd personally rather have 44 spcl vs 38 spcl in a pocket gun.

 

[eb07]

I'll say that my bulldog can be quite the hand smacker...more than any .38 J frame I ever owned. With that said, I'd personally rather have 44 spcl vs 38 spcl in a pocket gun.

Weird, my experience is the exact opposite. The bulldog has less recoil and is faster back on target. Quicker split times and more accurate.

I did a couple recoil comparisons:

I carry 200 not 240 in the Bulldog:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlxLMuXphj4[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4tgKE4Kno[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhclkTs-Ijs[/ame]

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Always a subjective topic.

I'm no ballistics guru so I tend to believe those who say the .357 is more lethal. Bears are only reason I pack .357s in my 640 Pro or M&P 340. If I'm ever in a "deal" with a bear I hope the loud report and muzzle blast will be enough to defuse the "deal." (Caveat: if I'm not in bear country I pack a Baby Chiefs with 158gr rnl.)

I load up with Barnes 140gr. lead-free HPs because out of the seven types of ammo I've tried in it those are the ones I shoot best. I tried plain-Jane .38s, .38 +P, and short barrel .357s. I'm on target (POA = POI) and have no trouble with rapid fire with the Barnes .357s.

Could I teach myself to be as accurate with the other ammo? Probably, but the Barnes takes the "try" out of the equation. Practice, practice, practice = confidence and comfort.

I cannot end my opinion piece, here, without touting the Karl Nill Centennial grips as the best part of either package. Feels like K-frames with these.

 

[uncleted327]

There is no argument about the 357 delivering more energy than a 38 +P in any barrel length. Anyone telling you otherwise is trying to convince themself of something that's untrue. The real question is wether or not you can control and accurately shoot the 357 versus the 38, if you can't then you should stick with the 38. Also the comparison to a rifle is moot. We are talking about handgun calibers, not rifle versus handgun. And let me ask the people who say there is no difference in handgun caliber, if you had to be shot in the butt with either a 22, 380 or a 357, 44 Magnum, which would you choose? I guarantee nobody is picking the magnums...

 

[Harkrader]

The short answer is "Yes": early degeneration of your hand.

 

[JohnK]

I once owned a Charter snub, in .44 Special.

I knew that the factory loads were a bit weak, so thought it would be a soft kicker.

WOW ! I have never fired a gun with such painful recoil, and I own several .357 Mags.

 

[Telecaster]

Ballisticsbytheinch dot com shows the comparisons in muzzle energy.

More energy is more energy, period. Is it enough? Too much? As Paul Harrell says, "You be the judge."

 

[1sailor]

There are two advantages to jumping up to a .357 snubby. The first is that you now have the option of firing .357 even if you choose not to. You will never hear anyone tell you that they sold their pistol because it was "just too versatile". The other advantage is bullet velocity. As has been pointed out already, regardless of the fact that a shorter barrel restricts some of the Magnum's advantages it is still far and away more powerful than the .38+p. I carry an M&P340 which is one of the lightest Magnums out there. It is not "pleasant" shooting magnums but it is controllable and surprisingly more accurate than you might expect. There are many different defense scenarios. The truth though is that your attacker is not likely to be the suspicious character blocking your path at the end of the alley or a mad man charging at you from half a block away. In all likelihood they will be on you before you are even aware that anything is wrong. They do it for a living and they've probably had lots of practice. If that time ever comes which would you rather be pulling from your pocket, a .38 special or a .357 Magnum.

 

[kaaskop49]

.38 v. .357

As most members already know about me, I'm still waiting for the J-frame chambered for five 12-gauge slugs... It's your call.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[typetwelve]

I once owned a Charter snub, in .44 Special.

I knew that the factory loads were a bit weak, so thought it would be a soft kicker.

WOW ! I have never fired a gun with such painful recoil, and I own several .357 Mags.

I agree...recoil is highly subjective but I can say 100% that when I take my Charter out for other shooters not familiar with it, they are always shocked at how hard that little stinker kicks. It's like the noisy cricket on Men in Black, no one expects it to bite that much.

In comparison, my 4" 629 with full magnum loads is much easier on the hand.

I ran a box of these here through that Charter:

50 Round Box - 44 Special 200 Grain SJHP Hollow Point Ammo by Fiocchi - 44SA | SGAmmo.com

My hand meat was sore the next day.