junglefighter
US Veteran
How do you compare the 686+(3"),627PC+8(2 3/4") and the 69(which bbl.?)? I am on the fence between these 3 and would appreciate some advice on the above.Thank you.
Last edited:
Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??
- Thread starter Nalapombu
- Start date
HamHands
Member
Agreed! I've just never shot .357 very well OP. I shoot 9mm, .38Special & +P's, .40caliber, .45acp/super, .44Special & Magnum all really well. I carry "J frames" a lot recently and have carried them a significant amount of times over the last 3 years or so. Buffalo Bore 158grain soft cast LHP's and 158 Hard Cast full wad cutters are what I carry. Front strong side pocket in a Desantis "Nemesis" and a NY reload on my strong side in a Bianchi M58 holster is my preferred set-up. I can dump a cylinder fast into the 9 and 10 rings @ 10 yards into a silhouette. It's up to you... but you really can't argue with the pop of a .357magnum whether out of a 2" barrel or not. I would NOT want to be hit in the navel or lower abdomen with one lets just put it that way. I think heavy for caliber, 158 grain .38Special+P's are a great compromise between a good/solid standard pressure .38Special and a .357mag. It really depends on how much practice are you willing to put into training with the gun and carry load to get proficient. I know for me under stress my groups open up 2-2.5 times compared to that of unstressed fire. YMMV...
To answer your question though, I would carry a Model 60 Smith with Magna's and a Tyler-T grip adapter loaded with a heavy .38Special+P from Buffalo Bore or Underwood if I went the route you are thinking OP.
pittpa
Member
ContinentalOp
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 6,315
- Reaction score
- 12,813
That is one of the most worthless arguments anyone ever makes in discussions like these. I don't want to be shot by ANYTHING, not even a BB.
1sailor
Member
I would absolutely agree that a fatal shot from a .22 is just as deadly as a fatal shot from a big bore Magnum. Fatal is fatal, period. I would tend to think that the biggest differences between them would occur during non-fatal hits. I would think that the increased severity of the magnum wound could make a substantial difference in ending the confrontation.
junglefighter
US Veteran
This is one of the reasons I am thinking 44 SPL./44 Mag.
Like I said for me? Recoil management and accuracy of follow up shots one handed, two handed, stationary, and on the move. Caliber wars are old and busted.
My personal opinion is the 44 special in a 200gr hollowpoint out of a charter bulldog has less recoil than 38+P 135gr speer gold dots.
My carry preferences from least recoil and most accurate follow ups to most are:
148gr wadcutter 38 special Smith 442 (least recoil)
200gr speer gold dot 44 special Charter
135gr Speer gold dot 38 +P Smith 442
135gr Speer gold dot 357 Magnum Ruger LCR (most recoil)
Your mileage and experiences may vary.
My personal opinion is the 44 special in a 200gr hollowpoint out of a charter bulldog has less recoil than 38+P 135gr speer gold dots.
My carry preferences from least recoil and most accurate follow ups to most are:
148gr wadcutter 38 special Smith 442 (least recoil)
200gr speer gold dot 44 special Charter
135gr Speer gold dot 38 +P Smith 442
135gr Speer gold dot 357 Magnum Ruger LCR (most recoil)
Your mileage and experiences may vary.
Setting aside the already discussed question of the power difference between 38 and 357, the next question in my mind is whether 357 is too much for me to shoot in a J frame.
Yes, it is.
I wish it wasn't so. I'd love to carry magnum loads in all my guns. But the simple fact is I flinch like crazy when I shoot a full tilt magnum in any of my guns except my LCR327 and my 6.5" 629. Because I'm able to shoot the LCR without an issue, I would like to try the KLCR 357 one day, and it would be at the top of my list for a pocket carry 357. For a belt carried 357, there's no question I'd get a 627 PC snubbie. I really should sell off some of my other 357s and get one of those.
Personally, I opt for low power magnums or hot SPLs in all my magnum guns for both practice and carry. I plan to start handloading light magnum 180gr XTPs for the 3" 629 I carry most days, and may eventually do the same if I decide to start carrying a 357 again. For now I just carry my 629 loaded with hot Underwood 44 SPL and a 637 loaded with .38 +P in my pocket.
Yes, it is.
I wish it wasn't so. I'd love to carry magnum loads in all my guns. But the simple fact is I flinch like crazy when I shoot a full tilt magnum in any of my guns except my LCR327 and my 6.5" 629. Because I'm able to shoot the LCR without an issue, I would like to try the KLCR 357 one day, and it would be at the top of my list for a pocket carry 357. For a belt carried 357, there's no question I'd get a 627 PC snubbie. I really should sell off some of my other 357s and get one of those.
Personally, I opt for low power magnums or hot SPLs in all my magnum guns for both practice and carry. I plan to start handloading light magnum 180gr XTPs for the 3" 629 I carry most days, and may eventually do the same if I decide to start carrying a 357 again. For now I just carry my 629 loaded with hot Underwood 44 SPL and a 637 loaded with .38 +P in my pocket.
Etalksalot
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2017
- Messages
- 756
- Reaction score
- 594
I think when people compare the two, they are talking about fps most of the time. I will always believe 357 is stronger than 38 when fired from the same barrel. However, a 38 should do the trick just fine. You'd probably never need a 357, but I always figured why not?? Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. My Buffalo Bore 180gr LFN slugs will punch through both sides of a car (provided you aren't shooting the engine block) and will still do a very good deal of damage to someone on the other side. I can't say whether or not a 38 could, I don't know the answer to that. I also think to myself, if caliber doesn't matter, why do I bother buying anything but a 22?? Statics seem to show that caliber isn't nearly as important as shot placement and that most calibers are about as effective as any other. At point blank range (which I'd imagine most self defense situations occur) a bullet to someone's face, 9mm, 38, 40, 357, 44, 45 or anything else is probably going to kill someone. I carry a 38 all the time, but sometimes, depending on where I'm going, I'll carry my Taurus 605 loaded with the 180gr Buffalo Bore 357 rounds just because. They are some vicious little rounds and I can honestly say (while I'd rather not get shot at all) I'd significantly rather get shot in, oh say the arm with a 38 than one of those Buffalo Bore rounds because the BB round may just take my arm off at the point of impact. 38 may do the same, but if I HAD to pick one to be shot with, it opt for 38 over a 357. That's just my opinion on the matter, but they have to be stronger. Again, other rounds may be equally effective, but the 357 HAS to be stronger which could serve a purpose, or then again it may not at all.
Another thing, about fps, I think people make way too big a deal out of that. Yes 1,400 fts is much faster than 1,000 fps but what does that mean? In a measuring system we all understand better, if something is moving at 1,000 fps it is traveling roughly 681 mph. That's pretty darn fast! At close range, how fast does one really need the slug to move? Anything over 681 mph is just for show. 1,000 fps is (not including end zones) 3 1/3 football fields laying down in a row every second it travels. It's almost the speed of sound (1,087 fps/741 mph). How much faster could you really need? Now that doesn't mean I don't love bigger and faster rounds, but for self defense, I mean that should absolutely suffice.
Last edited:
zogger
Member
I have a newer model 60 rated for 357s that I use for EDC. I have shot 38 Spl, 38 Spl +P, and 357s to see how well I can handle each one. In the end I can handle the recoil for 38 Spl and 38 Spl +Ps but not 357s. As I result I carry it with 38 Spl +Ps.
HamHands
Member
I agree with you on the .44Special and the 200grain Gold Dot being my favorite anti-personnel/criminal combination for sure!
For conceal-ability... I'm happily carrying a pair of "J" frames on the nightly neighborhood dog walks and around town currently. One is filled with 158gr soft cast Lead Hollow Points from Buffalo Bore and the other with 158gr Hard Cast full wad-cutters from Buffalo Bore as well... standard pressure and 2 Bianchi speed strips of course.
For the woods and sometimes around town the 629 Deluxe 3" barreled "N" frame with your favorite load "Doc-M", the 200grain Gold Dot, standard pressure is hard to beat and with minimal recoil. For the woods, same 3" 629 with Underwood's 255 grain "Keith's" in .44Specials or their .44Specials in 200grain Hard Cast are absolutely devastating on thick pelted animals...
Here is a pic of my "New York Reload"... Maybe we should call it call this the "Adirondacks Edition" but from deep Georgia, hahahaha! Enjoy my boys!
Edmo
US Veteran
My 640 Pro J-frame with Hornady Critical Defense 125 grain 357 Magnums is quite "spirited" in my hands. Spirited, but very controllable.
The same rounds in my slightly heavier 2.5" Model 19 are a piece of cake.
As a bonus, the Hornady 125 grain Critical Defense rounds did well in the Lucky Gunner ballistics tests for 357 Magnum snubbies.
Remember, every shooter has a different level of recoil sensitivity and recoil management. I say this not to pass judgement, but as a matter of fact. Some will cringe at 357 Magnums in a J-frame while others love shooting 44 Magnums in a lightweight revolver. You will have to pick your level of comfort.
Edmo
S&W Model 640 Pro
S&W Model 19-4
The same rounds in my slightly heavier 2.5" Model 19 are a piece of cake.
As a bonus, the Hornady 125 grain Critical Defense rounds did well in the Lucky Gunner ballistics tests for 357 Magnum snubbies.
Remember, every shooter has a different level of recoil sensitivity and recoil management. I say this not to pass judgement, but as a matter of fact. Some will cringe at 357 Magnums in a J-frame while others love shooting 44 Magnums in a lightweight revolver. You will have to pick your level of comfort.
Edmo
S&W Model 640 Pro
S&W Model 19-4
Last edited:
Shooting a 357 snubby is a matter of practice and confidence derived from practice. Physics is physics not opinion. You can always choose to shoot 38 spl in a magnum snubby but not the other way around. I carry a S&W Model 60 and choose to load it with 158 gr 357 JHP Magnums. I'm confident it'll do the job. That's what I do, not saying others should do as I do, they should do what they think is best for them.
OLDSTER
Member
The only thing gained is more noise and much more painful experience. Ballistics aside; your .38 special with a big bullet will be just as effective in a social encounter as any +P or .357. 
HamHands
Member
My 640 Pro J-frame with Hornady Critical Defense 125 grain 357 Magnums is quite "spirited" in my hands. Spirited, but very controllable.
The same rounds in my slightly heavier 2.5" Model 19 are a piece of cake.
As a bonus, the Hornady 125 grain Critical Defense rounds did well in the Lucky Gunner ballistics tests for 357 Magnum snubbies.
Remember, every shooter has a different level of recoil sensitivity and recoil management. I say this not to pass judgement, but as a matter of fact. Some will cringe at 357 Magnums in a J-frame while others love shooting 44 Magnums in a lightweight revolver. You will have to pick your level of comfort.
Edmo
S&W Model 640 Pro
S&W Model 19-4
Quoted for truth. You have to find your own comfort level by trying lots of different platforms, handguns sizes, and loads. Once decided upon platform and size; especially with a good Smith revolver... you can find or tailor the loads to exactly your liking. I find I enjoy hot and heavy for caliber .44Specials in my 3" 629 the best for a woods load. For around town carry, it's a pair of "J" frames with heavy for caliber 158's, loaded slightly hot, just under the +P spec. There are so many winning combinations!
Edit: I forgot to say beautiful M19... That is a great piece!
Last edited:
HamHands
Member
Truth: It's why I'm glad my first .44 was/is a 3" 629... It see's 80/20% .44Specials to .44Magnums.
I enjoy .38Special so much I'm looking for a snub .357 right now that I can shoot all the standard velocity, +P, and even warmer .38Special loads with zero worries.
RangemasterP226
Member
The answer you seek is:
M&P340
.38 Special +P
Perfect balance. Retired cop here, one year ago. Thought I'd carry my Glock 43 mostly, but my new M&P340 shoots easily with any of the .38 Special +P short barrel loads.
Don't underestimate the need for smooth follow-up shots.
And don't fall for the most asinine internet advice I've see, "I practice with .38s and carry .357s"
Cheers
M&P340
.38 Special +P
Perfect balance. Retired cop here, one year ago. Thought I'd carry my Glock 43 mostly, but my new M&P340 shoots easily with any of the .38 Special +P short barrel loads.
Don't underestimate the need for smooth follow-up shots.
And don't fall for the most asinine internet advice I've see, "I practice with .38s and carry .357s"
Cheers
The other favorite is "you won't feel the recoil in a gunfight"
I may not feel the pain, but I'm pretty sure the nasty recoil will slow down my follow-up shot when that 125gr 357 magnum lights off in a airweight pocket gun.
1sailor
Member
Nasty recoil?? While I have noticed some pain I have never experienced any "nasty recoil". Which airweight do you carry?
Similar threads
