HOUSTON RICK
Member
What are your opinions on the MP-15 in filling the role of EBR (Evil Black Rifle)?
The M&P 15 The Good, the Bad & The Ugly
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
What are your opinions on the MP-15 in filling the role of EBR (Evil Black Rifle)?
BobK
Member
The S&W M&P 15 is not actually made by S&W.....they just put their logo on it. I forget the real manufacterer's name.....DPMS (?)but I'm not into Black AR type rifles. It is a quality rifle, I've heard, and is a welcome addition to the new S&W lineup!!!
Bob
I am certainly not an EBR expert, I have much to learn. So I'll chime in anyway.
I've wanted an M&P15 because I admit to being an S&W collector.
I've done alot of internet research
, tried to cull the chaff, balance the opinions and decide if an M&P15 is a good choice for me.
There are several different AR15 and M4 forums out there, a couple are HUGE. Most of what I have read suggest that M&P15 owners are happy with their EBR's. Now, this is where you've got to make a decision about those drinking the Koolaid and those making an honest opinion.
A comparison chart is floating around the various forums compiled by rob_s that shows the various options and assembly methods for the, according to the author, top 12 M4's. A nice list, however, I take it with a grain of salt, because the M&P15 is shown to advertise a milspec F front sight base, but doesn't meet spec in real life. All the M&P15's I've seen have the F stamp on the FSB and meet milspec. The top three on the chart, if you're curious, are the Colt 6920, LMT, and Noveske M4 Light Carbine.
According to this chart the M&P15 falls into 5th place, Bushmaster is 9th, and Rock River in 10th. I note these since they are the EBR's I've seriously looked at.
An issue that some wish to take with the M&P15 is the use of 4140 steel for the barrel vs 4150 steel. My understanding is that could be an issue for an M16 full auto model, but the M&P15 is semi-auto, in accordance with the law.
There are those that put a premium on the Colt name, just like those that, in years past, always put a premium on the IBM name for PC's. How many reading this are sitting in front of a Gateway, HP/Compaq, homebrew, etc. computer?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Colt, I'd like to have one. I'm just more interested in the S&W, different flavor koolaid.
I've wanted an M&P15 because I admit to being an S&W collector.
There are several different AR15 and M4 forums out there, a couple are HUGE. Most of what I have read suggest that M&P15 owners are happy with their EBR's. Now, this is where you've got to make a decision about those drinking the Koolaid and those making an honest opinion.
A comparison chart is floating around the various forums compiled by rob_s that shows the various options and assembly methods for the, according to the author, top 12 M4's. A nice list, however, I take it with a grain of salt, because the M&P15 is shown to advertise a milspec F front sight base, but doesn't meet spec in real life. All the M&P15's I've seen have the F stamp on the FSB and meet milspec. The top three on the chart, if you're curious, are the Colt 6920, LMT, and Noveske M4 Light Carbine.
According to this chart the M&P15 falls into 5th place, Bushmaster is 9th, and Rock River in 10th. I note these since they are the EBR's I've seriously looked at.
An issue that some wish to take with the M&P15 is the use of 4140 steel for the barrel vs 4150 steel. My understanding is that could be an issue for an M16 full auto model, but the M&P15 is semi-auto, in accordance with the law.
There are those that put a premium on the Colt name, just like those that, in years past, always put a premium on the IBM name for PC's. How many reading this are sitting in front of a Gateway, HP/Compaq, homebrew, etc. computer?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Colt, I'd like to have one. I'm just more interested in the S&W, different flavor koolaid.
Originally posted by BobK:
The S&W M&P 15 is not actually made by S&W.....they just put their logo on it. I forget the real manufacterer's name.....DPMS (?)but I'm not into Black AR type rifles. It is a quality rifle, I've heard, and is a welcome addition to the new S&W lineup!!!Bob
I believe STAG had a hand in the production of the original M&P15. My understanding is that S&W is building them in-house now.
Wayne Dobbs
Member
1006TSW,
rob_s's chart is about the most useful tool out there to assess various ARs against one another. He also says that "The Chart", as it's become to be known, is a living and changing document. If you have input based on ACTUAL experience, he wants to know about it so he can keep things accurate. Email me if you need contact information for him.
Having said all that, the M&P15 is overall, a pretty good AR. If you're going to use one hard, there are features on any AR that need to be in order that may not be from the manufacturer and that need some tweaking. ARs are their own world and therefore shouldn't take up all our time here. I will also say, that in my experience, that biggest AR site has lots of idiocy and misinformation on it so be cautious about where you get your information, especially if your AR is a critical piece of safety gear.
rob_s's chart is about the most useful tool out there to assess various ARs against one another. He also says that "The Chart", as it's become to be known, is a living and changing document. If you have input based on ACTUAL experience, he wants to know about it so he can keep things accurate. Email me if you need contact information for him.
Having said all that, the M&P15 is overall, a pretty good AR. If you're going to use one hard, there are features on any AR that need to be in order that may not be from the manufacturer and that need some tweaking. ARs are their own world and therefore shouldn't take up all our time here. I will also say, that in my experience, that biggest AR site has lots of idiocy and misinformation on it so be cautious about where you get your information, especially if your AR is a critical piece of safety gear.
torrejon224
Member
Originally posted by BobK:
The S&W M&P 15 is not actually made by S&W.....they just put their logo on it. I forget the real manufacterer's name.....DPMS (?)but I'm not into Black AR type rifles. It is a quality rifle, I've heard, and is a welcome addition to the new S&W lineup!!!Bob
The early M& 15s, were made by Stag, all the new ones from approx serial #5XXX are made in house by S&W and the barrels are made by Thompson.
torrejon224
Member
I looked long and hard at AR's made by Colt, Bushmaster, Stag, Rock River, Armalite and several others before buying my M&P 15T. IMO the S&W offered the best of everything and for it's intended use of range work, home defense and a few courses, it offered the best deal and features for the $$. When we were buying my wife's AR, we had decided on a Charles Daly primarily becuase they offer a lifetime warranty vs S&W's one year. Unfortunately, they were none available anywhere so we went with another M&P 15, this time and "A" model. We don't regreat ther decision to buy another S&W one bit!
Klatuu
Member
Draw Near and Behold, The Almighty CHART!!!!
The Chart
The Chart Thread
Be aware that the prices DO NOT reflect the current post election bump.
The Chart
The Chart Thread
Be aware that the prices DO NOT reflect the current post election bump.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
ya know-every time I go to look at one of these, I get side tracked an dfigure out for the money I would spend for a M&P 15, I could but a Ruger 77 stainless in 223 with a good Leoupold 1.75 x 6 scope. Does anyone think like me, or am I just not "with it".
James NM
Member
CAJUNLAWYER:
The only fault I find with your reasoning is your assumption that the Ruger 77/AR decision is an "either/or".
Just by both (or more accurately start with one of each).
The only fault I find with your reasoning is your assumption that the Ruger 77/AR decision is an "either/or".
Just by both (or more accurately start with one of each).
OP
HOUSTON RICK
Member
...but, it looks like fun and it is a Smith!
How much is the ammo?
GatorFarmer
Member
The new VTAC special edition SW ARs look interesting. I've heard mostly good things about these.
By most reports, in general, the current M&P15s are solid tier two rifles akin to CMMG and RRA. The VTAC may take them a bit closer to the "gold standard" makers like Noveske and Colt.
Colt prices are crazy right now. My non Colts are CMMG - my personal preference of "best bang for buck" in tier two. Some of the M&P15s were attractively priced before things went crazy though.
5.56/.223 ammo is hovering around 50 cents a round currently.
By most reports, in general, the current M&P15s are solid tier two rifles akin to CMMG and RRA. The VTAC may take them a bit closer to the "gold standard" makers like Noveske and Colt.
Colt prices are crazy right now. My non Colts are CMMG - my personal preference of "best bang for buck" in tier two. Some of the M&P15s were attractively priced before things went crazy though.
5.56/.223 ammo is hovering around 50 cents a round currently.
We started buying the M&P15 due to unavailability of Colts. They're standing up to the literal abuse our dedicated training weapons go through on a regular basis as well as the Colts-at least they have for 2 years so far.
When I say 'abuse', I mean 2K rounds per week through a 12 week CQB training cycle. Some of the brands mentioned on that chart, didn't survive one training cycle. NO, I won't name names.
When I say 'abuse', I mean 2K rounds per week through a 12 week CQB training cycle. Some of the brands mentioned on that chart, didn't survive one training cycle. NO, I won't name names.
Nitrous SSC
Member
They only have a 1 year warranty?
I recently got a Remington Model 700 VTR in 223 and mounted a Leupold 3-9 on it, for less than the cost of most new ARs if you can find one. Great gun. However, comparing it to an AR is somewhat apples/oranges. Depends on what you plan to use it for. I had a couple of ARs already and wanted to try a bolt-gun in this caliber. If I didn't have anything in 223 I'd clearly go with an AR initially.....which, now that I think of it, is what I did.
tom turner
US Veteran
Hi,
My dealer got one in this week, and I finally took the plunge. His price was pretty good . . . for post-coronation times that is. I've very pleased with it so far.
The early ones had a couple of problems that were soon fixed. The early guns had serial numbers beginning with the prefix SW, followed by five numbers, and the higher numbered ones in that series were just fine.
The one that I just got is from the latest new batch, and the suffix has been changed to "SM" with the numbers beginning again at 00001.
Mine's number SM 0022x. Unfortunately, it isn't number SM 00223, but close. Yeah, it WOULD have been cool to have gotten number 223.
Someone mentioned ammo prices. I just picked up a couple hundred rounds of Federal 55 gn. FMJ from Wally World for under $90, and I hear that you can find some PMC FMJ for about $300 a case.
It zeroed really fast with an extra Holosight I had on a Ruger MkII and it shoots very good.
NOW UPGRADED WITH THE NEW MAGPUL MOE HANDGUARD AND 30 ROUND MAGAZINES. A work in progress, of course.
T.
My dealer got one in this week, and I finally took the plunge. His price was pretty good . . . for post-coronation times that is. I've very pleased with it so far.
The early ones had a couple of problems that were soon fixed. The early guns had serial numbers beginning with the prefix SW, followed by five numbers, and the higher numbered ones in that series were just fine.
The one that I just got is from the latest new batch, and the suffix has been changed to "SM" with the numbers beginning again at 00001.
Mine's number SM 0022x. Unfortunately, it isn't number SM 00223, but close. Yeah, it WOULD have been cool to have gotten number 223.
Someone mentioned ammo prices. I just picked up a couple hundred rounds of Federal 55 gn. FMJ from Wally World for under $90, and I hear that you can find some PMC FMJ for about $300 a case.
It zeroed really fast with an extra Holosight I had on a Ruger MkII and it shoots very good.
NOW UPGRADED WITH THE NEW MAGPUL MOE HANDGUARD AND 30 ROUND MAGAZINES. A work in progress, of course.
T.
Andy Griffith
Member
Well, that depends if you call T/C "in house" or not...
T/C now makes the barrels for the M&P 15's.
Of course, they also make the receivers for other non-AR military "sporter" rifles too.
I little hog with wings told me so.
The problem with AR-style rifles has been until recently, that there has been only one manufacturer making bolt carriers. One- that's all! However, many people have seen this as a problem, and the best minds in the industry are working on it...
As seen here:
Great Scott!
Matt Murphy
Member
OK, I'll ask...who was making the bolt carrier? I bought an S&W M&P15A and really like it. I also really like my Bushmaster and Rock River AR's. I don't put 2K thru my gun every week, even though I would sure like to, but all of my guns have held up very well. I bought the S&W because I've caught the "buy everything S&W puts their name on" bug. I own approx 14-15 S&W handguns and have never had a problem with any of them so I figured the AR would be good too.
