The media is spreading fear

[BC38]

Wow, that's a lot to unpack.

The naked fact is that deaths from heart attacks, flu, auto accidents or whatever DO trash our economy. To the tune of billions in insurance claims, lost wages, lost economic output, hospital and medical costs, and a hundred other things. It's the simple fact that it's been going on for so long it is no longer news. We've simply gotten used to it, have learned to work around it, and factor it into our economy so that now we pretty much ignore it.

I'm also old enough to remember all the folks yelling about our rights when they made seatbelts and airbags mandatory - or even vaccines. I predict that in a few months this pandemic will also become so commonplace that the coverage won't be as wall-to-wall as it is today. But for now the news is covering COVID-19 exclusively - because there is literally nothing else going on. Heck, I can't even go to a baseball game.

As for the news not being "fair and balanced" that appears to be more a combination of what source we choose to listen to shaded by our own personal beliefs (which is the same for me as it is for anyone else, by the way). It's not that any news source isn't reporting pertinent information, just not the information that you want to hear. And before you complain too loudly about the lack of "positive spin", you should really consider what the definition of "spin" is in that context. I for one ain't looking for happy-talk, but I'm also judicious enough to know the difference between "editorial journalism" and "hard reporting" when I hear it.

Simply put, we are rehashing the exact same arguments that are always given too much oxygen every time some crisis - both major or minor - crops up. But with the number of infections and deaths that the US is experiencing (and all the issues that go with it - personal, economic, etc.) then I personally believe that complaining about the lack of positive spin is exactly what I've said - faux outrage. Hate me for my opinion if you like (it's still a semi-free country after all), but you aren't going to convince folks to stick with the only program that is currently working unless you give them more HARD FACTS than happy lip service.

I too look at and read a broad range of sources of information. That is why it is so obvious and easy to spot bias- a.k.a. "spin".
I'm not looking for sunshine and butterflies. Just a little balance and stop with the sensationalism baloney.
I know, too much to ask. I know. If it bleeds it leads. Dirty Laundry.

 

[BC38]

So in other words you are saying those people should have all their business open up and send everybody back to work in the factory. restaurant, stores or whatever, regardless of who may or may not be carrying covid 19. Just go for it. maybe get sick and die or maybe not??
Essential" people are working, so lets kill of the no essentials?



How do you propose opening things back up and safeguarding peoples heath? Or is there really not a problem out there?

Start by testing people for immunity.

If they are immune or young and healthy enough that they are willing to risk exposure to GET immunity, LET THEM GO BACK TO NORMAL LIFE. Including working in non-essential industries. Continue the less intrusive mitigation efforts, including social distancing and masks and sanitation. But let those who safely can GET BACK TO IT.

Those who aren't immune, and aren't healthy enough to risk exposure, let THEM continue to stay home and isolate/quarantine if they are unwilling or unable to risk it. Once the vaccine and/or effective treatments are available THEN those who are at higher risk can also get back to normal life.

That is the approach that maximizes freedom of choice, and at the same allows those at risk to protect themselves and those who choose not to, or have no need to protect themselves due to having immunity, to get back to some semblance of normalcy.

Because no matter what, things have to start getting back to normal. The current status quo cannot continue indefinitely.

What would be wrong with that plan?

 

[UncleEd]

BC38,

What test or tests for immunity?

Have you seen something that indicates
such exists?

Last I read is that the doctors/scientists
are not sure that those who have had the
virus and got over it are immune. Nor do they
know that those survivors aren't carriers which
could spread the virus.

But if you know so, well let's get with it!

 

[BC38]

BC38,

What test or tests for immunity?

Have you seen something that indicates
such exists?

Last I read is that the doctors/scientists
are not sure that those who have had the
virus and got over it are immune. Nor do they
know that those survivors aren't carriers which
could spread the virus.

But if you know so, well let's get with it!

From what I've been reading they DO have a test for antibodies.
If you have the antibodies - meaning your body has already beat it, how could you not be immune? Antibodies are the definition of acquired immunity. The antibodies kill the virus - that is the only way you recover instead of dying from it.

AFAIK there is no other viral or bacterial ailment where antibodies do not confer immunity. There are a few known illnesses where immunity wanes over time, but there isn't even any evidence that is the case with this virus. Unless this thing is so alien it is different than every other communicable disease known to man recovery will confer immunity - at least for a significant period of time.

Unless and until we see a case of someone who has recovered and tests positive for antibodies, getting re-infected I think it is pretty safe to say recovery from it gives you immunity for a significant period of time.

As for the immune carrying it, as long as those who are older and or immuno-compromised are kept away from them, and these carriers are only exposing others who are also immune or young & healthy enough to get it and recover, what difference does it make?

Like I said in my proposal, those who are at risk stay isolated and quarantined away from the "carriers" until the vaccine and/or more effective treatments are worked out. As long as they stay isolated - the same way that ALL of us are staying isolated right now - then they aren't going to get exposed. The big difference is that ONLY those at risk are locked down instead of everyone.

The one thing we know 100% for certain is that we can't keep the whole country on restriction with tens of millions unemployed indefinitely. As others have said, that may work for pensioners and SSI recipients, but it won't work for 100 million + working people. And with all those millions out of work the tax revenue isn't going to be there to keep those SSI checks coming indefinitely either.

 

[doublesharp]

The deal was shut down for 15 days to slow the spread of the virus. We did that and it worked. Many on here seem to be after a promise of no more death. That is not the way life works.

 

[Absalom]

I would be curious to know if anyone thinks this media is spreading fear, or is it perhaps some confirmation of what some of us believe...that the cure is worse than the disease. OK, let the pitch forks fly!!!

Chillingly, Scariest Coronavirus Death Toll May Not Come from COVID-19

This is just an example how quickly numbers games become worthless because developments overtake them.

For example, the article linked, from March, talked about (at that point) globally 8000 corona-related deaths and compared that to 10,000 suicides from the Great Recession.

Well, a month later New York alone has over 11,000 corona deaths. Globally, the number is somewhere around 130,000, I think.

Numbers do matter, but drawing conclusions from comparisons to events that are in the past and from which we have final numbers, while we're still in the thick of this one, just leaves you in the dust.

 

[steelslaver]

Ya, we just had another day with 2400 deaths from the virus. Its all over and everything needs to go back to normal, lets drop the restrictions , go back to work let everyone mill around and really spread this around. Brilliant I tell ya.

 

[Xfuzz]

But, minne is over 140.

Minne is about room temp...

 

[transit]

We are not locked down in the US either then. I have to agree with you on the other part. But, minne is over 140.

Minne is about room temp...

It's pedantic, but I can't lie, it made me chuckle.

Thank you.

 

[steelslaver]

I am a clutze on the keyboard

 

[delcrossv]

I would be curious to know if anyone thinks this media is spreading fear, or is it perhaps some confirmation of what some of us believe...that the cure is worse than the disease. OK, let the pitch forks fly!!!

Chillingly, Scariest Coronavirus Death Toll May Not Come from COVID-19

Well, cheaper than renting a Stephen King movie......

 

[doublesharp]

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.

Mark Twain

 

[LVSteve]

Unless and until we see a case of someone who has recovered and tests positive for antibodies, getting re-infected I think it is pretty safe to say recovery from it gives you immunity for a significant period of time.

Sadly, South Korea are examining 100 cases where this exact thing appears to have happened. I sincerely hope that it turns out to be a sampling/testing glitch, but right now our knowledge of the human immune response to this virus is sketchy, to say the least.

Over 100 Cases Of Recovered COVID-19 Patients Testing Positive Again In South Korea | IFLScience

As for viruses coming back, I can't help thinking of chicken pox and shingles.

 

[BC38]

Sadly, South Korea are examining 100 cases where this exact thing appears to have happened. I sincerely hope that it turns out to be a sampling/testing glitch, but right now our knowledge of the human immune response to this virus is sketchy, to say the least.

Over 100 Cases Of Recovered COVID-19 Patients Testing Positive Again In South Korea | IFLScience

As for viruses coming back, I can't help thinking of chicken pox and shingles.

Relapse is not the same thing as developing antibodies that beat the virus and then getting reinfected. Relapse is starting to get better, then getting worse because your body never really beat it in the first place.

So far we have over 644,000 confirmed cases and over 48,000 (7.5%) of them have recovered here in the US. If reinfection were a significant risk it would be showing up by now in a group that large. And we know the bad-news media would be ALL over the story.

Chicken pox and shingles is a good example of immunity breaking down over time. The virus is still in your body living in the nerve endings. Several decades after you recover from a childhood case of chicken pox your immune system weakens to the point that the virus surfaces again in your 60's or 70's (rarely in your 50's). And it is the only disease I've heard of where that happens - and even then it only happens to a very small percentage of people - .03% to be exact.

I think we can safely say that a few decades worth of immunity will be more than enough to get us past this crisis and give us enough time to develop vaccines, booster vaccines, effective treatment, etc.

As to your article, here is the salient quote once you get past the first few paragraphs of hyperbole

"There have been a few isolated examples where [reinfection] has been reported. That people were positive, then they were negative, then they were positive again. It looks like, in the great majority of cases, this doesn't happen. That people get infected once," Professor Jimmy Whitworth, an expert in international public health from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said in a live Q&A on March 25.

"My suspicion is that those discrepant test results that we get are to do with, actually, the sampling. It's not straightforward to take a sample from the back of the throat and make sure you catch virus every time," explained Professor Whitworth.

"So I suspect it's a technical issue, rather than repeat infection… It looks like you are immune for getting it again, but for how long, we don't know yet."

 

[BC38]

Ya, we just had another day with 2400 deaths from the virus. Its all over and everything needs to go back to normal, lets drop the restrictions , go back to work let everyone mill around and really spread this around. Brilliant I tell ya.

It doesn't have to be either/or. That kind of binary thinking seems surprisingly limited for such a high IQ individual.

Interestingly enough our IQ scores are about equal. I even got sent to a "magnet school for gifted kids" for 5th-8th grade. I'm no genius, but I'm not a doorknob either.

Personally I can envision MOST people - immune or young and healthy enough to risk catching COVID to acquire immunity - getting back to normal life, following social distancing protocols etc. Just like in Korea right now.

At the same time the elderly and those with compromised immune systems continue to isolate at home and stay away from people until a vaccine and effective treatments are developed. The majority of the most susceptible aren't working anyway, they are retired. Isolation isn't such a big deal for them. Especially not financially.

That seems like the answer that respects freedoms, and personal choice, gets the country and the economy back on its feet, while still protecting the vulnerable.

From what we're learning it doesn't seem like it is necessary for everyone to be isolated at home. We ease into it and if the incidence of serious illness starts to rise, we adjust and figure out who else needs to isolate.

 

[steelslaver]

I do not think it has to be either or and as I have stated I don't think all of the restrictions are necessary. Some of them are ridiculous. Plus, what is needed for New York isn't the same as needed for Montana. But, to me it should be up to the governors. But, then I also think that the governors should be able to restrict their borders. I can't go watzing into New York with my carry gun, I must submit to their laws. Same thing applies here.

My main beef is with those who think this is a nothing.

When the science and not the hope for is shown to be true I am all for those with antibodies going back to work. But, so far there is ZERO SCIENTIFIC proof that many of the antibody test are accurate or that those with antibodies can not be reinfected or carry the virus and infect others. Right now its like the "game changer" quine drugs that don't actually work that well. Just because people want something to be true doesn't make it so.

Read this
Immunity from COVID-19 antibodies not certain, HIV co-discoverer cautions

One of my points about the death count post was every one saying we were over the top horay hooray then wham wham.
We need to be careful that we don't back off to soon and spread this around worse than it is already. Some portions of the country have very low infection counts and we want to keep it that way. I live where I live for a lot of reasons. Not being part of the herd can be a good thing.

I say the stakes are to high to gamble.

 

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
We are not locked down in the US either then. I have to agree with you on the other part. But, minne is over 140.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xfuzz View Post
Minne is about room temp...

I realy do not know what mine is, but as Rolls Royce used to say years back when asked how much Horse Power their expensive cars had, said it was adequate! To be quite honest I think my common sense outdoes my IQ.

 

[wheelgun28]

My wife had one of the MSM morning talk shows on this morning.

Talk of reopening, social distancing with masks are the new norm. Public pastimes and recreation, sports, movies/shows, eating out, shopping, yeah not looking good.

So, we will just wind down our lives with no jobs, money, socialization. Just hunker down till they find a vaccine, maybe if ever.

So at what point is this existence not worth it, one month, six, a year, five, ten?

Can't hide from the boogie man forever...

 

[ladder13]

Another 5.25 million unemployed. Full steam ahead until no one is working. Not to worry, I'm retired.But where will I buy food?

 

[steelslaver]

My common sense tells me that when something is killing thousands of people a day and a lot of them are in my age group, I best to avoid it.