Yup, maybe if ever. HIV is a virus...still no vaccine. I hope these governors decide not to wait for that one.
The media is spreading fear
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Yup, maybe if ever. HIV is a virus...still no vaccine. I hope these governors decide not to wait for that one.
Jon651
Member
Except that AIDS/HIV is no longer fatal, and the meds we have these days can get your virus levels down below measurable levels. It may have been an excruciating process, but we learned about the virus, how it affects the body, how it is actually transmitted, how to live with people who have it, and we learned all of that long before these new meds were developed. I'd consider that one a win. By the way, the same goes for Hepatitis-C, which was also once considered fatal.
I predict the same will happen with COVID-19. We will learn to deal with it and live with it long before we figure out how to cure it.
Well I certainly fit the above described description words!Pension SS but not the concept!
As a retried Very Blue Class worker I do not like what is happening my "poldar" (political radar) is starting to go into overdrive.
Rules are changing daily sometimes hourly and not for the better. This pensioner misses going out to restaurants, stores and having to dress like were looking for a role in a new TV doctor, hospital type show.
Due to my knee problems and subsequent surgery last year I only use one tank of fuel in my Vette.. Is it going to be legal to drive it top down this warm weather period? (serious question) Are they going to outlaw motorcycles same reason but those people do wear helmets with many using full face shields.
Marinas closed but I can launch from my private beach if necessary. (as of now) At least I have my own private 100 yard range on the back of my property. I sort of can see into the future and as I'm no Nostradamus I will/am getting some things figured out.
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
We are not locked down in the US either then. I have to agree with you on the other part. But, minne is over 140.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xfuzz View Post
Minne is about room temp...
I realy do not know what mine is, but as Rolls Royce used to say years back when asked how much Horse Power their expensive cars had, said it was adequate! To be quite honest I think my common sense outdoes my IQ.
Common sense trumps IQ.Simpleton Forrest Gump made fools of the elites.
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Here come the municipal budget cuts. Garbage pick ups, fire and police protection, courts, jails, social services, etc.
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HIV and Corona don't really compare. One takes actual exchange of bodily fluid takes a just a bit of airborne fluid. I can spend a entire day in close proximity to people with HIV and never get it. Not so with Corona,
Hardly a comparison at least to someone with common sense.
Common sense also tells me that when a easily communicable disease is killing thousands a day during restrictions it might not be the best idea to lift the restrictions and really spread it around a bunch more. Especially when the areas that are seriously impacted are having problems coping with it medically.
Common sense tells me that when I look ar Sweden with no restrictions having a death rate 40 times its nearest neighbors who have restrictions that restrictions work to keep the death rate down.
Common sense told me that when MGM closed down its part of Vegas on its own with no government order it was serious. They didn't get there being dumb.
Common sense told me that what was goin on in Italy was not good and it would happen her, even when people were saying "it has only killed 5 people in a rest home" it couldn't, wouldn't happen here and was "only the flu".
Look back at the past post to see who thought it was nothing to worry about and who said it was not good and then tell me about common sense.
Hardly a comparison at least to someone with common sense.
Common sense also tells me that when a easily communicable disease is killing thousands a day during restrictions it might not be the best idea to lift the restrictions and really spread it around a bunch more. Especially when the areas that are seriously impacted are having problems coping with it medically.
Common sense tells me that when I look ar Sweden with no restrictions having a death rate 40 times its nearest neighbors who have restrictions that restrictions work to keep the death rate down.
Common sense told me that when MGM closed down its part of Vegas on its own with no government order it was serious. They didn't get there being dumb.
Common sense told me that what was goin on in Italy was not good and it would happen her, even when people were saying "it has only killed 5 people in a rest home" it couldn't, wouldn't happen here and was "only the flu".
Look back at the past post to see who thought it was nothing to worry about and who said it was not good and then tell me about common sense.
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Just curious...are your hospitals furloughing employees? Ours are, elective procedures are verboten, so the hospitals are cutting staff to stave off financial collapse...at least temporarily. This, after years of desperately working to attract the staff they are now cutting. Doctors and nurses will not hang out in VT waiting for their government relief check, they will leave...never to return.
Even with my limited IQ that will never approach yours, I know this. My comment was a direct reply to something said in a post. Try to stay focused...if at all possible.
When I grow up, I hope to have your level of common sense.
Stay focused if at all possible yourself. Did I quote you?
I did make a comparison the HIV and the Corona virus. I also posed a simple question. Why restrict movements for one when simply being near a person with it has no risk? Is there some reason I can also not comment? Is there some rule that says I can only address one thing per post?
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Just yesterday the powers that be closed a couple North Country medical out buildings. They have eliminated none emergency items so they RIFed the people there and locked the doors. Things like Lasiks, colonoscopy, carpals ETC
I have a long scheduled eye doctor appointment for next Tuesday. Doc offices is in his own building! Waiting for the phone call that either cancels it or a reminder to bring a driver as drops will be used. (could go either way I guess!)
Edit-- Docs office just called, canceled. Said when this is over they will reschedule!
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olcop
Member
Press
I agree, as a former LEO and a natural cynic, I'm wondering if they are "making much ado" about this to cover up something worse that's going on.
I agree, as a former LEO and a natural cynic, I'm wondering if they are "making much ado" about this to cover up something worse that's going on.
"I understand the reason for and Support a Free and Open press, but I think sometimes the Press forgets that it has the responsibility to report the facts correctly and to stop Cherry Picking information that fits their political agendas."
I will agree with this. The news should be what it is. Then they want to have an opinion page they can as long as they make it clear that it is an opinion and not a fact.
I am interested in anti body studies, treatment and vaccine studies. But, on these we need actual science facts not a bunch of we think it might be this ways.
I do believe this will get figured out, we will become better and stronger and be better prepared for the future. If we can't get m through this intact with civilization intact we are doomed anyway.
I will agree with this. The news should be what it is. Then they want to have an opinion page they can as long as they make it clear that it is an opinion and not a fact.
I am interested in anti body studies, treatment and vaccine studies. But, on these we need actual science facts not a bunch of we think it might be this ways.
I do believe this will get figured out, we will become better and stronger and be better prepared for the future. If we can't get m through this intact with civilization intact we are doomed anyway.
OK, I'll stand corrected.
With viruses that attack your IMMUNE system (HIV) antibodies don't equal immunity. That makes sense. Of course that isn't really relative to this virus because it is not an ailment of the immune system - it is a respiratory virus.
As to dengue fever, there is a point that was left out of the discussion by the expert in your linked article. From an article specifically about dengue fever, here's what either wasn't mentioned by the expert - or more likely selectively left out by the author of the article (either out of ignorance or more likely in order to put the worst spin possible on the expert's comments).
So basically you can't get the same variety of dengue fever more than once and for at least some period of time recovery from one gives you immunity to all five types - immunity that wanes over time. The one thing I couldn't find was how long the blanket immunity generally lasts. So dengue fever is kind of in the same "bucket" as chickenpox/shingles.
The fact is we cannot wait until we know everything there is to know about this thing before we go back to normal life. HIV is over 40 years old and although we've learned how to deal with it well enough that a diagnosis is no longer a death sentence, it took more than 20 years to get there. And we STILL don't know everything there is to know about it because we still have no cure or even vaccine.
We can't wait 20 years or until we know everything there is to know about this virus either. There is going to be some risk, and possibly some missteps that result in some deaths as we plot our way out of this. While it is unfortunate, that's life. Life isn't risk free and no one gets out if it alive in the end.
So at the end of the day the status quo cannot go on indefinitely and we have to start working towards normalcy sooner or later. Sooner will reduce the overall damage to our economy, our country and our populace as a whole.
Tens of thousands die in car accidents annually, and yet we all drive because the benefits outweigh the risks. This is no different.
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just like that, $349 Billion, out of money....Forrest Gump would say.
Small business rescue loan program hits $349 billion limit and is now out of money
Small business rescue loan program hits $349 billion limit and is now out of money
LVSteve
Member
They let go 112 part-time folks at Las Vegas Metro just last week. There's no doubt the city and county here are so dependent on continual tourist taxes the shutdown is starting to bite. But Metro firing folk strikes me as odd as previous news stated Metro had some huge cash float tucked away somewhere.
The big question is how soon and how much. To soon or to much could really suck. It wouldn't take many carriers moving around to get the numbers going back up fast.
Blowing the call could easily cost tens of thousands of deaths or more. How any lives are you willing to gamble away. Remember that over 20% of the fatalities and 50% of those that go into an ICU are under 60. Plus, many of those that require ICU attention suffer from kidney damage and will need continued medical care and likely a shortened life span.
We know there are 600,000 infected right now. Probably at the very least 100,000 unknown infected and probably way more. Those unknowns are a big problem. What we have now in this country was started with far less.
We could test everyone. But, those tested would have to remain away from anyone else not known to be clear. As soon as they contact an unknown the validity of them being known to be uninfected is shot. How do you plan to do and control that? The antibody deal is good if the reliability of an antibody test specific for Corona 19 is validated and those with antibodies are proven to be immune to reinfection. Which is nowhere near the case yet. Like I said jumping the gun could cost lots of lives. Maybe yours or one of yours. Let me ask you this. Would you bet your kid's life on it. Not yours, but your kid's life? Sure it mostly kills the old with issues, but it get some young healthy people too? Would you risk your kids being exposed to it with no positive proof. I would not. Already lost one son and don't ever want to go through it again for any reason or amount of money.
Blowing the call could easily cost tens of thousands of deaths or more. How any lives are you willing to gamble away. Remember that over 20% of the fatalities and 50% of those that go into an ICU are under 60. Plus, many of those that require ICU attention suffer from kidney damage and will need continued medical care and likely a shortened life span.
We know there are 600,000 infected right now. Probably at the very least 100,000 unknown infected and probably way more. Those unknowns are a big problem. What we have now in this country was started with far less.
We could test everyone. But, those tested would have to remain away from anyone else not known to be clear. As soon as they contact an unknown the validity of them being known to be uninfected is shot. How do you plan to do and control that? The antibody deal is good if the reliability of an antibody test specific for Corona 19 is validated and those with antibodies are proven to be immune to reinfection. Which is nowhere near the case yet. Like I said jumping the gun could cost lots of lives. Maybe yours or one of yours. Let me ask you this. Would you bet your kid's life on it. Not yours, but your kid's life? Sure it mostly kills the old with issues, but it get some young healthy people too? Would you risk your kids being exposed to it with no positive proof. I would not. Already lost one son and don't ever want to go through it again for any reason or amount of money.
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UncleEd
Member
BC38,
I notice you use the word "we" a lot in calling for
action.
Perhaps you should go forth first and prove your
reports before the designated agencies OK such
action.
If all goes well, you shall be hailed as a hero. If
not, "we" won't care.
I notice you use the word "we" a lot in calling for
action.
Perhaps you should go forth first and prove your
reports before the designated agencies OK such
action.
If all goes well, you shall be hailed as a hero. If
not, "we" won't care.
I'll go when Birx and Fauci say so, surely not taking any advice on the net.
Repeating stats ad nauseum trying to prove this and that will not sway me.
Repeating stats ad nauseum trying to prove this and that will not sway me.
Just read something that Trump is planing on "opening up" social distancing in some parts of the Country somewhere. What that means I sure as heck do not know.
AND on the Pork News front
Governor Opposed Stay-at-Home Order. Now, a Virus Hot Spot
Largest Coronavirus Hot Spot in US Is Smithfield Foods Meat Plant in Sioux Falls, South Dakota
(Newser) – The shuttered Smithfield Foods pork plant in Sioux Falls, SD, is now the largest single source of coronavirus cases in the country.
AND on the Pork News front
Governor Opposed Stay-at-Home Order. Now, a Virus Hot Spot
Largest Coronavirus Hot Spot in US Is Smithfield Foods Meat Plant in Sioux Falls, South Dakota
(Newser) – The shuttered Smithfield Foods pork plant in Sioux Falls, SD, is now the largest single source of coronavirus cases in the country.
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Not sure of the the whole conversation going on, but I had dengue three times over an approximately 8 year period of time. (just my luck) The first time was the absolute worst! And yes I lived in a tropical location at the time.
BC38,
I notice you use the word "we" a lot in calling for
action.
Perhaps you should go forth first and prove your
reports before the designated agencies OK such
action.
If all goes well, you shall be hailed as a hero. If
not, "we" won't care.
Yeah, when talking about our whole society "we" is the correct pronoun.
"I" can't put 22 million back to work. "I" can't enact policy for the whole country, so what "I" do has no bearing on the discussion.
However, enough people agreeing with ME can affect the actions of those who do have that authority. We're starting to see some movement in that direction.
But nice try at being snarky. Not that it really contributed anything of value to the dialog.
Interesting, first hand experience. So you got infected by 3 of the 5 different dengue fever viruses in 8 years? The good news is that's 3 down and only 2 more to go.
The other interesting thing is that your experience was the opposite of what they expert said. He said subsequent infections are worse even with the antibodies in your blood.
Sounds like the blanket immunity doesn't last more than a couple of years at a time. Just out of curiosity, what was the shortest period between one of your illnesses and the next?
Triathloncoach
Member
I believe the media needs to scare people. Lots of folks are dying, if we stop social distancing lots more will die. Peoples actions can get other people sick.
"Sounds like the blanket immunity doesn't last more than a couple of years at a time. Just out of curiosity, what was the shortest period between one of your illnesses and the next? "
This was over 25 years ago, so I don't remember the period of time between. But it wasn't long, maybe a couple years max. My wife never got it, go figure.
The things I do remember was at the time of the second go around I didn't believe I had it, because I was under the mistaken impression that I had immunity. But I had all the symptoms ( very much like a flu on steroids) plus the rash. After the first time ( I believe) I was told there were three strains, this is the first I heard of five strains. So I actually thought I was really done with it.....Gee thanks
And yes the first time was the worst. I felt like someone beat the heck out me, blood under my skin on my stomach, rash it was awful.The Doc I saw at the time was a local and experienced with it, but there was nothing he could do.
This was over 25 years ago, so I don't remember the period of time between. But it wasn't long, maybe a couple years max. My wife never got it, go figure.
The things I do remember was at the time of the second go around I didn't believe I had it, because I was under the mistaken impression that I had immunity. But I had all the symptoms ( very much like a flu on steroids) plus the rash. After the first time ( I believe) I was told there were three strains, this is the first I heard of five strains. So I actually thought I was really done with it.....Gee thanks
And yes the first time was the worst. I felt like someone beat the heck out me, blood under my skin on my stomach, rash it was awful.The Doc I saw at the time was a local and experienced with it, but there was nothing he could do.
Of course the media is spreading fear. It can be summed up in the following parable:
A scorpion, which cannot swim, asks a frog to carry it across a river on the frog's back. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung by the scorpion, but the scorpion argues that if it did that, they would both drown. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung the frog despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I couldn't help it. It's in my nature."
That's a good summary of the main stream media today.
A scorpion, which cannot swim, asks a frog to carry it across a river on the frog's back. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung by the scorpion, but the scorpion argues that if it did that, they would both drown. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung the frog despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I couldn't help it. It's in my nature."
That's a good summary of the main stream media today.
Triathloncoach
Member
As of today it's now it's 670,000 and 33,000 deaths. And rising fast. Nah, no big deal.
I don't disagree with you on timing being very important. Obviously if they are going to use mass testing for antibodies as a guideline, it ain't gonna be tomorrow. Or next week for that matter. But we need to get started NOW!
In regards to your statement above, I'm not talking about testing looking for those who have never been infected. I'm talking about determining who has been infected and recovered and gained immunity. Once that has been determined there is no need to continue tracking that individual's status. They are free to get back to normal life. They just have to stay away from those who are vulnerable and don't already have immunity. Social distancing and things like masks in public couldn't hurt either.
Those who haven't been exposed and aren't immune would need to stay at home if they are in a high risk group. As long as only the immune are out there living normal life among the other immune members of society (and those young and healthy enough to risk catching it), and as long as those who aren't immune stay away from them, then both groups are safe. It may mean the older folks who haven't developed immunity, and those with compromised immune systems, have to stay shuttered away from everyone who has developed immunity for a while. But that beats the hell out of EVERYONE having to stay shuttered in their homes.
As for the risk to my kid. The latest stats for NY are more than 26 thousand confirmed cases and 7 deaths for kids under the age of 21. So 7/226,000 = .0031% chance of death for CONFIRMED cases. In 2018 there were 37,461 auto fatalities in the US out of 337 million people. 37,461/337,000,000 = .0112%
and we all know that a disproportionate number of auto fatalities are young drivers.
So every day I let him drive his car - even though the chances of him being killed in a car accident are three and a half times as high as him catching and dying of COVID-19 if we lived in IN NEW YORK. The stats for NY are more than 20 TIMES worse than they are for my state (WA has less than 11k cases).
So yeah, I'll accept those odds rather than risk seeing him and everyone else in the whole country go through a depression like what we had in the 1930's. And make no mistake about it, that is where we are headed with this. Doing what we are doing now has us headed in that very direction. The effects of this shutdown are going to be felt for a LONG time. Possibly for decades, and the longer it drags on the worse it is going to get and the deeper the hole we have to try to get out of.
EDIT: Another glance at the NY stats show only 713 deaths for people under the age of 50. That is 713/266,000 confirmed cases so that is only a 0.26% chance of death for people under 50 years old. More significant, but still only about 2-1/2 times the risk of death by other strains of flu (0.1%).
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Good news, Birx on board, America coming back.
Deuce Caboose
Member
Now you have it.
Here's their strategy:
If you are a senior with co-morbidity issues, stay home and good luck. We have no plan, other than to through you under the bus.
Hey, sacrifices have to be made, and us guys have drawn the short straw. Pray modern medicine figures it out.
If you are without symptoms, but have the virus, go fourth, and worry not, as we aren't testing you. Back to work you go, make your money. Everyone else will just have to deal with your unknown and invisible toxicity.
What's the worst that could happen anyway?
If you get it, and recover, great for you. Count your blessings.
But if you never get it, just how comfortable will you be going forward?
As others have said, modern medicine does not have a handle on this virus. Not yet, anyway.
Count how many times the task force says "hopefully"...
By my tracking of the numbers, 6,000 US residents died of this virus in the last 24 hours.
"Hopefully", as a plan, just wasn't enough for them, or the other 28,000 that preceded them.
Be careful what you ask for.
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