The Model 10-5 and the NYPD!

[kaaskop49]

BrokenPrism: My NYPD friend (retired) became disenchanted with the RNL service load after he hit an armed robbery suspect three times and the suspect fled (later arrested in a hospital). He privately switched (against regs) to the .38-44 load which provided extra punch. When NYPD went to the SWC at service velocity, he used the W-W higher velocity version of that load (later labelled +P).
My friend told me there was widespread dislike of the RNL among cops.

 

[Road Rat]

Because I'm looking at guns that few people would carry now for run-of-the-mill SD, I find myself wondering about mortality statistics from the round nose lead you were probably issued. It's also interesting that civilian LE armed its officers as if the .45 had never been invented, the Moros were never a problem, and the .38 was never considered to be underpowered.

I believe the .38 Special was chosen and used for so long because almost anyone can handle the M&P revolver with that round. Not a lot of recoil; great trigger pull; not too heavy; and "most" officers never pulled it from the holster in anger!!

It worked great for almost 100 years.

 

[badge]

The .38 special is a wonderfull cartridge when loaded properly. The 158 LRN is notoriously prone to OVERPENETRATION, hence decreased stopping power. It was not nicknamed " The Widowmaker " for nothing. No, most officers forced, as I was to carry it did not like it friend. Many times suspects were struck repeatedly in vital areas only to kill the officer or escape.

 

[dscampbell]

While the 158 grain lead round nose round is lethal it lacks the ability to cause rapid incapacitation. Criminals often were able to continue the fight and kill the officer before loosing consciousness or dying. The lead semi wadcutter hollow point has a much better record of incapacitation.


Scott Campbell
Remember wheel guns are real guns too
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[dscampbell]

I also was happy when the sheriff stopped issuing 158 grain LRN and issued hollow points.


Scott Campbell
Remember wheel guns are real guns too
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[kbm6893]

Sometime in the mid 80's, an NYPD sergeant shot and killed a polar bear who had mauled a kid in the Brooklyn Zoo. One shot from his Model 10 with the 158 grain round nose killed the bear.

 

[PR24]

I was NYPD. The model 10 went away in 1988. Some Transit cop had a guy on the wall who was being "less then cooperative", and he cocked the hammer on his model 10. BOOM. Killed the kid. We went to the stainless model 64 and Ruger Service Six right after that. Bobbed hammers so double action only. Six's stayed around for a few years and then we phased them out in favor of the Ruger GP100, which was also bobbed hammer and stamped "GPNY".

Maybe service weapons couldn't be transferred for duty use, but off duty ones sure were. When the 9MM was approved in 1993, lots of guys picked the Glock so they could carry it off and on duty. Snub nose .38's were being sold all over the place. They were authorized for off duty use for the new owners.

What a shame. He supposed to use the all steel revolver as a club & thunk 'em on the head.

 

[PR24]

I have a standard-barrel 10-5, by the way, and love it. It's my head-of-the-bed gun.

I have a repatriated 3" Mod 10 from down unda. It has the medium taper barrel (thicker than the pencil but not as fat as the heavy) in addition to the import marks etc. The dealer was pretty sure it was a Victoria State Police, Australia sidearm when they went to 4". Its a square butt & nice shooter. BTW, Victoria PD Aus. just barely transitioned to M&P's autos from their trusty wheelguns. Last major Aussie agency to do so.

 

[kaaskop49]

attn RM Vivas

Sir: Another poster, PoliceRevolverCollector, states NYPD issued revolvers had the officer's shield # on the backstrap. I disagreed: officers had to purchase their revolvers, either from the Equipment Bureau or dealers such as Sile and Jovino. Guns were not issued. I was on another job, not PD, and never saw a shield # on a backstrap. Can you confirm, please? Thank you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[policerevolvercollector]

Kaaskop,
I should have been more clear. The S&W M&Ps that I have seen/owned marked w/ shield numbers low on the backstrap were pre-model 10s.This was done by a dept. armorer at the time the revolver was put into service after being purchased by the officer.

 

[Tyree1867]

Kaaskop,
I should have been more clear. The S&W M&Ps that I have seen/owned marked w/ shield numbers low on the backstrap were pre-model 10s.This was done by a dept. armorer at the time the revolver was put into service after being purchased by the officer.

I first posted on this thread back in 3/13 regarding my Dad's [now mine] pre model 10 M&P. It is lettered shipped to a NYC dealer in 1930. My Dad became a cop in December 1941 with that 1930's revolver. It has his patrolman's shield # stamped on the butt.This was his duty revolver from 1941 until he retired in 1978.

 

[Voyager28]

In my LE years, late 60's - early 70's, our departmental issue weapon was the Model 10. However, we were allowed to buy our own weapon, Colt or S&W, and carry it as long as it was chambered for the departmental approved ammo. So, I purchased and carried a Model 19. Beautiful thing, nickel plated, Triple T.

We were issued and expected to carry 158 grain RNL "Luballoy" ammo. That is the only ammo approved for duty carry. However, I and most of the other LEs I knew, carried it only for roll call and inspection. Once in our cruisers and out of the parking lot, the "approved" ammo was quickly replaced with something MUCH more potent. In the shooting incidences I was familiar with and involved in, not one word was ever said about ammo.

Bob

 

[Old cop]

My issued revolver saved my bacon more than once in 30 yrs. & I still carry one in retirement. I qualified for LEOSA in June w/my Model 38, the only one shooting a revolver among all those Glock 23's. Empty brass was flying all around me while I reloaded, but I was as accurate (85%) as those shooting their semi autos.

 

[COULT D]

Sir: Another poster, PoliceRevolverCollector, states NYPD issued revolvers had the officer's shield # on the backstrap. I disagreed: officers had to purchase their revolvers, either from the Equipment Bureau or dealers such as Sile and Jovino. Guns were not issued. I was on another job, not PD, and never saw a shield # on a backstrap. Can you confirm, please? Thank you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I can confirm officer's shield numbers were stamped either on the butt or backstrap of revolvers. The firearms section not the equipment section did the stamping. This practice was done up to the early 1970's.

 

[Vom Brunhaus K9]

Guys nice post , I have a model 10 two inch snubby bought new in 1971 finish is blue, now with Hogue black grips. Couldnt be happier and its a solid keeper for sure. thanx