The Russians have gone in

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Beemerguy53 said:
Friends, we've hit a milestone this evening on the Forum: This little old thread has been going for 11 weeks now, with more than 2000 posts...without being shut down. It's been viewed more than 52,000 times.

Exchanges here have been civil and respectful, highly informative, and (for the most part) within The Rules. Those of us who are outraged by Putin's crimes have here a way to express ourselves among like-minded people, and have the discussion remain on an adult level.

Thank you all very much! :)
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I must admit, it's gone a loooong way farther than I expected when I put up the first post.
 
Have seen headlines on the net that puti is very sick with cancer. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Hope it is true.
 
I noticed his face is very full like when they give cancer patients steroids to reinforce their bodies. I hope so and hope he could slip away in a quiet and dignified manner...............
 
ddixie884 said:
I noticed his face is very full like when they give cancer patients steroids to reinforce their bodies. I hope so and hope he could slip away in a quiet and dignified manner...............
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I have been described by those who know me as a kind and empathetic person, and I have rarely experienced schadenfreude at the news of someone's suffering.

Having said that, the last thing that monster Putin deserves is a quiet and dignified passing. And I hope when he passes, the spirits of the Ukrainians he's murdered are waiting for him...
 
Beemerguy53 said:
I have been described by those who know me as a kind and empathetic person, and I have rarely experienced schadenfreude at the news of someone's suffering.

Having said that, the last thing that monster Putin deserves is a quiet and dignified passing. And I hope when he passes, the spirits of the Ukrainians he's murdered are waiting for him...
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For some reason, in my wanderings on the interwebs I came across a list of Yiddish curses, some of which are incredibly ornate. But this one might do:

Zol er krenken un gedenken: Let him suffer and remember.
 
I just came across an interesting interview Ben Ferencz (post #2008) The guy has a great sense of humour, despite the terrible stuff he had to deal with.

 Last living Nuremberg Trial prosecutor recalls his work on the Einsatzgruppen Trial
"...There was this thing called World War II, and it had broken out when I was in my third year at law school. I went down with all the other students into Harvard Square to volunteer in the Air Force. They wouldn't accept me — they said I couldn't reach the pedals. I said, "I'll navigate it." And they tested me. And they said, "if we told you to bomb Berlin, you'd probably end up in Tokyo." So I was not qualified for anything I wanted to get into. The Marines said, "you don't look like a Marine."...

Eventually I became a buck private in the 115th AAA gun battalion. I landed on the beaches of Normandy. I got five battles stars when the war was all over, for not having been killed in any of the major battles, beginning with Normandy beach, and for marching the line going to the Siegfried Line [a German defensive area during World War II]. I crossed the Rhine River driving a little Jeep. And I was there for the final Battle of the Bulge....
​
 
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oldbrownhat said:
I just came across an interesting interview Ben Ferencz (post #2008) The guy has a great sense of humour, despite the terrible stuff he had to deal with.

 Last living Nuremberg Trial prosecutor recalls his work on the Einsatzgruppen Trial
"...There was this thing called World War II, and it had broken out when I was in my third year at law school. I went down with all the other students into Harvard Square to volunteer in the Air Force. They wouldn't accept me — they said I couldn't reach the pedals. I said, "I'll navigate it." And they tested me. And they said, "if we told you to bomb Berlin, you'd probably end up in Tokyo." So I was not qualified for anything I wanted to get into. The Marines said, "you don't look like a Marine."...

Eventually I became a buck private in the 115th AAA gun battalion. I landed on the beaches of Normandy. I got five battles stars when the war was all over, for not having been killed in any of the major battles, beginning with Normandy beach, and for marching the line going to the Siegfried Line [a German defensive area during World War II]. I crossed the Rhine River driving a little Jeep. And I was there for the final Battle of the Bulge....
​
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Man, now that's a resume'!!
 
The Ukrainian government has historically been just as corrupt as the Russian government is.
Jury is still out on Walinski.
Putin would settle for a corridor down the east side of Ukraine.
At least a 60% probability Putin will detonate one or more tactical nukes to save face and get what he wants. He may be terminally ill and just does not care about anything very far into the future.
We should not get any more involved than we are already because we do not have the quality of leadership to go to war with Putin.
 
Don't confuse pre-2014 Ukraine with today's Ukraine. Since the Maidan Revolution, they've made enormous strides toward EU accession, which means cleaning up, and adding transparency to, previously corrupt Soviet-style systems. We've helped with the reforms, as has the EU - the progress is measurable.

And their president is Zelenskyy, not "...Walinski.". There is zero credible evidence of him being corrupt, although making stuff up is the trademark of opinion-media talking heads.

For accuracy:

Human Rights Watch has the latest info. World Report 2022: Ukraine | Human Rights Watch


In addition, this from DOS as Ukraine utterly reorganizes its police from the brutal corrupt Soviet model to a western model.

This week marked another reform milestone for Ukraine—the newly trained Patrol Police in Odesa were publicly sworn-in in front of Ukraine's President Poroshenko, Prime Minister Yatsenyuk, and Minister of Internal Affairs Avakov.

The State Department, working through the California Highway Patrol and the Reno and Dayton police departments, supported this training for new and more effective police in Kyiv, Lviv, and now Odesa. In September, a new patrol police force will also stand up in Kharkiv.

We commend the Government of Ukraine on this important public trust initiative and continue to stand with Ukraine as it fights corruption, pursues reform, and strengthens rule of law.

And this:

The U.S. Department of State's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL) works to keep Americans safe at home by countering international crime, illegal drugs, and instability abroad. INL helps countries deliver justice and fairness by strengthening their police, courts, and corrections systems. These efforts reduce the amount of crime and illegal drugs reaching U.S. shores.

Challenges: The Ukrainian government faces intense political, military, and economic pressure from Russia and the pernicious influence of deeply rooted corruption. Russia continues its aggression in eastern Ukraine and its occupation of Crimea, closes its markets to Ukrainian goods, and exploits weak institutions and corrupt actors to undermine reforms. Despite these challenges, the Ukrainian government continues to implement important reforms and has laid the foundation of a new system to fight corruption and align law enforcement agencies with U.S. and European standards and practices. Much remains to be done to institutionalize these reforms and ensure the system is effective in combating transnational crime and corruption.

Goals: The United States improves Ukraine's capacity to deliver citizen security and combat organized crime. This work builds law enforcement cooperation between the United States and Ukraine to address transnational threats, including those with a U.S. nexus. The United States also strengthens criminal justice sector institutions and improves citizens' trust in government, enhancing Ukraine's resilience to Russian malign influence. INL's objectives in Ukraine are to: strengthen law enforcement agencies to address complex security challenges facing Ukraine; reform criminal justice agencies in line with Western best practices; and support Ukraine's efforts to tackle corruption, including through independent anti-corruption agencies.

Accomplishments:

INL supported the Government of Ukraine to meet the aspirations of the 2014 Revolution of Dignity by standing up new institutions, agencies, and units designed to fight corruption, improve security, and increase access to justice.

INL assisted the Ukrainian government to replace the notoriously corrupt traffic police with a 16,000 strong Patrol Police nationwide and helped establish the country's first Patrol Police Academy in Kyiv, which is currently expanding throughout the country. This project is one of Ukraine's most visible reforms and is credited for changing the way Ukrainian citizens interact with and perceive law enforcement.

INL is now expanding police reform to small towns and villages nationwide in partnership with the National Police, local communities, and U.S. law enforcement as part of the Territorial Community Police project.

INL supported the Ukrainian government's establishment of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO), and the High Anti-Corruption Court. NABU and SAPO have launched hundreds of investigations against high-level corrupt actors since their founding.

INL supports national prosecutorial reform through the re-attestation of all Office of the Prosecutor General personnel, the most significant prosecutorial reform effort ever undertaken in Ukraine.

INL helps the Border Guards to reform its HR practices and establish model border crossing points across Ukraine to address corruption issues and to aid in the apprehension of criminals and terrorists moving across Ukrainian territory.
Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs: Ukraine Summary - United States Department of State

State has partnered with DOJ and several US state and local police agencies not mentioned above to train and mentor new Ukrainian Patrol Police - Houston PD and Texas DPS were particularly helpful.

Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs: Ukraine Summary - United States Department of State

And this from DOJ:

UKRAINE: ICITAP HELPS EXPAND PUBLIC ORDER CAPABILITY WITH PATROL POLICE
June 11, 2021

On June 11, 2021, ICITAP concluded the first of two weeks of Patrol Police of Ukraine (PPD) Public Order training in Kyiv. Participants included 20 bike patrol officers and 19 horse-mounted officers, in addition to 48 TOR officers, who completed Incident Command Systems (ICS) training. The U.S. Chargé d'Affaires and the Head of the National Police of Ukraine (NPU) attended the graduation ceremony. The second week of the event will be dedicated to the Crowd Control Summit being held in the eastern region of Kharkiv. ICITAP has been training PPD officers in Public Order Management since 2017 when the first 30 trainers completed a Training-of-Trainers course. Since then, ICITAP has organized Incident Command Systems (ICS) training events, this year's bike and mounted officer training, and three Crowd Control Summits where ICITAP advisors, PPD trainers, and hundreds of PPD TOR officers gather to share experiences and best practices for handling mass events like protests and parades.

Ukraine: ICITAP Partners with State Department to Strengthen Security Across Country
May 19, 2021

On May 19, ICITAP-Ukraine's mission advisory team delivered an extremely detailed and well-organized presentation with tremendous graphics and videos to 152 interagency and international partners about ICITAP's law enforcement assistance and security mission, covering the context, history, successes, challenges, and opportunities of ICITAP's work in Ukraine.

Ukraine: ICITAP Helps Increase Number of Master Trainers for National Police
May 14, 2021

On May 14, two ICITAP-trained Ukrainian Patrol Police Master Trainers for the Mentorship Training Officer Project (MTOP) conducted their first course for 17 Patrol Police (PP) officers who will become mentors for new Patrol officers.
Somalia: ICITAP-Mentored Joint Investigative Team Improves Capacity to Preserve Terrorist Crime Scenes

Ukraine: ICITAP-Supported Kyiv Patrol Police Academy Receives Top Award at International Exhibition
May 28, 2021

On May 28, the Kyiv Patrol Police Academy (PPA) of Ukraine received a top award in educational excellence at the annual international exhibition "Modern Educational Institutions, World Edu" in Kyiv, Ukraine.

Ukraine: ICITAP Helps Expand Public Order Capability with Patrol Police | CRIMINAL-ICITAP | Department of Justice

Ukraine: ICITAP Helps Expand Public Order Capability with Patrol Police | CRIMINAL-ICITAP | Department of Justice

And the EU:

EU 'Support for Police Reform in Ukraine' — EUAM Ukraine
 
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cmj8591 said:
Putin's resolve certainly exceeded my expectations. This invasion will case a lot of hardships for the Russian people. I did not think that he would risk bankrupting his country to regain control over Ukraine. It may be that he sees the political window closing and doesn't want to take the chance that the west ends up with a leader with a spine over the next couple of years which made it "now or never". Hopefully this will be a wake up call but past being prologue, I doubt it.
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You are right about the window of opportunity.
Other country's leaders who are not our friends see it too.
 
Kaarde said:
Man, now that's a resume'!!
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Not to mention a lot of chutzpah in how he marched in and started issuing orders:
"...I pretended I was personal representative to General Patton. I would come into the camp with MRI written on the front of my Jeep, always alone. I'd go to the commanding officer, and I'd say "I'm here on General Patton's orders, carrying out a policy of the United States President. I need 10 men immediately."...

"...I was referred to General, then-Colonel, Telford Taylor. And he interviewed me. He said, "I've been ordered by the President to set up these subsequent proceedings. I've been checking up on your record, but I'm concerned because you're occasionally insubordinate."

And I said, "No, that's not correct, I'm not occasionally insubordinate, I'm usually insubordinate. I never obey an order which I know is stupid or illegal." And I said, "Well, I've been checking up on you, too." He was also a Harvard lawyer. And I said, "I don't think you'll give me that kind of order." He said, "You'll go with me."..
​
Amazing. I've made a PDF of the article to keep.
 
The armored vehicles promised by Netherlands have begun to arrive in Ukraine. The YPR-765 is an upgraded design based on the US M113A1. The Dutch have retired the vehicles, and have 500 as surplus.

Defense Blog

305a98cc4c382c1d5a32c726754ab106.jpg


Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk
 
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