The Slippery Slope...

[Maddmax]

I highly recommend retirement. There are days when I miss some of the action, thrill of the investigation and chase but then I come to my senses when I remember the knuckleheads in the chain of command that couldn't find their asses with both hands.

Yep, it's much better to take my orders from the missus or our "sweet" little boxer / staffie mix, crack a beer and enjoy life the relatively stress-free life where the biggest problem on any given day is whether to buy a new trigger or not.

I agree. At times I too miss my younger days of high speed low drag when Uncle Sam was footin' the bill and there was a mission at hand. What I miss the most is that Team Sprit, the Brotherhood and not worrying if my "6" was covered. Hard to find that in todays world were everyone wants to start at the top or the (Waaaay too many) people that want everything handed to them for free.

Biggest worry I have now is if the fish are biting and the ice maker made enough ice over night.

 

[blues7]

All I can say is "amen" to that, brother.

I took three voluntary downgrades during my 27 years working for uncle. The "sacrifices", such as they were, were so that I could move on to the positions and eventually locations that I wanted. (You never tell "Uncle" what you really want, you make sure you put that second or third so he can act like he did you a favor making a concession to one of your choices. )

I decided long ago I was a "field" agent and never wanted to be locked indoors and be subject to the interminable management conferences which ultimately just spun wheels ad nauseum.

Before I got out, my partner and I would look around and wonder how it was that nobody was willing to make sacrifices anymore and why did everyone expect to be handed a plum without having done anything to earn it.

Things have certainly changed. Funny how we're the generation of guys who say that now.

When I started as a young agent I can clearly remember a couple of the "older" guys sitting in a corner calculating what their benefits and pensions would be when they were eligible to retire...

...I walked over to another new guy like myself and told him that I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I'd have done the job for free. Needless to say, that attitude changed with the ensuing years.

 

[blues7]

BTW, before we get in trouble with a certain Tennessean around these parts, what's it like using a RDS with a magnifier?

Is it a relatively clear sight picture or does all the glass introduce a bunch of distortion and noise?

 

[Maddmax]

BTW, before we get in trouble with a certain Tennessean around these parts, what's it like using a RDS with a magnifier?

Is it a relatively clear sight picture or does all the glass introduce a bunch of distortion and noise?

Might as well jump in with both feet. I have one on my (gulp) QD EoTech with an EoTech QD magnifier and don't have any problems. The magnifier (like most other brands) is adjustable so you get a very clear view through the RDS and it doesn't seem to distort the dot. It also works very well with other brands of RDS. It was listed at $550. which I thought was WAY over priced (the Buying the Name Brand thing game). I got mine waaay under that because I had a boatload of Cabela's points built up. It IS very well made, rugged as a tank, gathers "good light" early morning or at dusk and is clear as a bell though. I bought the Eotec Magnifier because I also couldn't find another magnifier that would match my Eotech Quick Detach sights height properly. Solid mount on the rail was fine with other brand magnifiers, but I WANTED a QD mount.

You need to be careful with magnifiers. There is some real junk out there and some waaay over priced ones to waist your money on. I've had reasonable luck with Vortex and some of the older sightmarks. I wouldn't go over 3X for power. Anything over 3X on a RDS is getting a bit overboard, clarity starts to suffer, so you might as well go for an actual scope then. I'd also recommend a flip to side mount.

Looks like magnifies have gotten popular, the prices have gone up considerably from what I've seen.

Did I need it ? No. Do I need a RDS, not really. Being I can keep em all in a 5 gallon bucket all day with iron sights at 300 yards, I could live with out a scope too. But life's short and I plan on enjoying it. The only sure thing, when I die and IF my wife gets a "new" boyfriend, he's going to have a LOT of fun toys to play with. But I'm sure the kids will make sure that don't happen.

 

[blues7]

Thanks, Max. I just happened to notice the magnifier on the LaRue site when I placed my order yesterday for the H-2.

I noticed that LaRue states their mounts are either a tad higher or lower, (depending on which mount is chosen), than the height of the Aimpoint Micro mounts but that they still work.

For the money I'd have expected the axis to mate up precisely, especially in light of the LaRue rep. Appears that this is one of those instances of "good enough" being, apparently, "good enough". I wouldn't know.

It's always nice to get the straight dope on how the equipment works together and more better to get the info from a trusted source, (that would be you), than someone with a financial motive.

 

[Maddmax]

blues7. That's one of the bad things about ordering on line over having a good LGS (IF you don't have to drive a couple hours to get to it). Some items need a hands on to make sure they match.

I hate the "close enough" routine mixing and matching. With mine, the "close enough" had a dark shadow either on top or (no shims) a dark shadow on the bottom. For what we have to pay, I want right on the money perfect.

Close enough is only good for playing Horseshoes or hand grenades.

 

[Rastoff]

I'm not a fan of the flip-to-the-side magnifiers. I am a fan of magnified optics though. If you want magnified optics, either go fixed 3x or 4x or go to a 1-4x24 type of scope.

Allow me to elaborate:

Simpler is better. Consider hard what you want your rifle to do for you and put as little as possible on it to achieve those goals.

I've been to a few classes in the last couple years and I always see the same thing. On day one, there are a bunch of guys with a tremendous amount of gear. Tactical vests stuffed to the gills with straps, pockets, magazines, lights, gloves, glasses and extra ammo. On day two, most of that garbage is gone.

On the rifle itself, I see bi-pods, vertical forward grips, lights, flip magnifiers, lasers, dual mags, slings and God only knows what else. These things are heavy and holding them gets old really quick. Needless to say, the rifles become less adorned as the class progresses.

Flip magnifiers are just something else to get in the way. Most of the time you won't need them. When you do need them, you have to remember to flip them. Some are locked to the side and require manipulating a button to get them in place. This is bad if you're in a hurry.

Also, the good ones are expensive. Figure at least $500 for a decent flip magnifier.

Further yet, they will affect your POI. So, they have to be zeroed with the optic you'll be using. Just one more set up step that can be easily over looked.

Get a 1-4x24 scope and you'll save all that extra stuff. The scopes worth having will be good no matter the setting. Sure, they're heavier than just a red dot, but you do get the magnification when you need it without lots of fuss.

 

[blues7]

I still think light, sling and RDS pretty much covers it, (for my own particular set of needs), and the RDS is optional in my view.

Then again, I generally come from the school of thought that embraces the concept of...

...one riot, one ranger.

I totally agree, Doug, that simpler is better 99% of the time. Sort of like Occam's razor.

BTW, I mostly asked about the magnifier to get back on topic and avoid getting sent to the principal's office (since we were straying a bit off topic through nobody's fault but my own).

By and large, I haven't been a friend to the aftermarket segment of the firearms industry (except for tactical gear related to work). Prior to this year, I have never added anything to any of my firearms that was not OEM and related to a part that required replacing (outside of a sling).

 

[Rastoff]

I hate slings. They just get in the way.

OK, if you have to carry your gun all day, you'll want a sling. Other than that, they suck.

In a defensive situation, they only serve to get caught on doorknobs and furniture. In the safe they seem to intentionally grab other guns on the way out.

For the high-speed-low-drag types, yes, they have value. If you ever run out of ammo and need to transition from rifle to handgun, OK. Unless civil war breaks out, that's not an issue for me.

The only reason I have any slings at all is because the training schools require them when you're carrying your gun around.

In fact, I have a single point sling that I'm probably going to drop in the trash. If you, or anyone else, wants it, the price of shipping will get it.

 

[blues7]

I have to disagree with you on slings, my friend. I agree that they can get in the way, especially if you are maneuvering in your home in a highly fluid, stressed state.

That said, I learned to use them on entries whether clearing homes, industrial sites or outdoor venues and they were at the very least a necessary evil. I just can't seem to leave the training behind even though I may not always find one useful all the time. The QD mounts have gone a long way to rectifying that problem. As you already know, when you need one, you need one.

 

[Maddmax]

Simpler is better.

Very true. Keep it simple. Less to go wrong.

 

[blues7]

Very true. Keep it simple. Less to go wrong.

And less to have to think about when things do go tango uniform...as they always seem to do.

You don't want to end up like a qb with all the plays strapped to his forearm.

 

[Rastoff]

That said, I learned to use them on entries whether clearing homes, industrial sites or outdoor venues and they were at the very least a necessary evil.

Exactly, you make my point for me. For anyone doing those things, they are indeed a necessary part of the kit. However, as you well know, those things are things 99.999% of us will never, should never, do.

Tactical movement is an art unto itself. Tactical team movement is a dance reserved for the well practiced. It is beauty in motion when done correctly, but death when done wrong.

Most of us will never use our guns anywhere but at the range. For that, no sling is necessary. The second most common use will be for defense of home. For that, we are best off barricading and waiting for the bad guy to come to us. Again, no sling necessary.

The next most common use of an AR will be in competition. The necessity of a sling will depend on the match. Some require gun retention; sling necessary. Many require depositing the unused long gun in a barrel; no sling necessary.

Based on your training and history, I totally understand you wanting a sling. The Magpul MSx line is excellent (when necessary, I prefer the MS1). However, I still despise them and maintain that most don't need and shouldn't waste our money on them.

 

[blues7]

I think there are times, even inside your own home where you may need the use of one or both hands for any number of reasons while not wanting to put your rifle on the ground.

I say that not to be argumentative because I think we are on the same page but only because sometimes you just need your hands free while retaining your weapon.

It reminds me of the decidedly un-cinematic scenario when you're woken up in the middle of the night and need to use your nightstand gun to work your way back to your long gun, (shotgun or AR or whatever), and you haven't had the chance to put your skivvies on in the circumstances. (Now that may be enough in and of itself to disarm the intruder or get him to turn around and flee. )

But now when you get back to the long gun where do you stick the gun? (Please, don't say it. ) Even with skivvies the elastic won't hold that potato in your pants. If the missus is there she can at least take the handgun at that point.

I've gone over a plan with my wife as to what steps need to be taken in the event of an intruder and you are right, clearing the house from room to room is not a part of that plan. (Maybe if I weren't married I'd consider a Rambo style attack.)

She is to barricade herself in the walk-in closet off the master bath, call 911 via cell phone or landline and shoot anyone who isn't me or a deputy attempting to enter the closet.

My role will be to put down any threat that attempts to enter the bedroom. (Or if it's earlier in the day, to make it to the nearest firearm to engage the threat.)

Back to the sling...there's really no right or wrong answer. Just the one that works best for you and that you've thought out in advance. (I know you have, Doug, because you and I have a lot in common in that regard.)

 

[Rastoff]

Back to the sling...there's really no right or wrong answer.

Bingo! I don't like slings and I have a solid set of reasoning why. You like slings and have a solid set of reasoning why. Each has merit. We both post our thinking here and anyone reading it must then decide for themselves. By both of us discussing our reasoning, it helps others define their own.

This is why I come here.

What burns me is the person who does something just because he does it. He does it without any thought behind that decision. I find that kind of action baffling.

 

[blues7]

Bingo! I don't like slings and I have a solid set of reasoning why. You like slings and have a solid set of reasoning why. Each has merit. We both post our thinking here and anyone reading it must then decide for themselves. By both of us discussing our reasoning, it helps others define their own.

This is why I come here.

What burns me is the person who does something just because he does it. He does it without any thought behind that decision. I find that kind of action baffling.

Thanks, Doug. I owe a lot to you and Phil and a handful of others, (they know who they are), who have helped me immeasurably with becoming familiar and comfortable with the AR platform.

If I can give back an iota of what I have received I'll be only too happy to do so.

On a separate note, I just cracked up when I read the last line of your post, (the bolded section above), and pictured you thusly:

 

[Rastoff]

Hahahaha! Maybe not Spock, but I do like the way he thinks.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

you may need the use of one or both hands for any number of reasons while not wanting to put your rifle on the ground.

I say that not to be argumentative because I think we are on the same page but only because sometimes you just need your hands free while retaining your weapon.

Of course you're not being argumentative. You're simply looking at the rifle beyond the context of a range toy.

And your choice in optics, H2, reflects this context as well.

 

[blues7]

Of course you're not being argumentative. You're simply looking at the rifle beyond the context of a range toy.

And your choice in optics, H2, reflects this context as well.

Thanks, Phil. I feel almost as proud as I did in the 4th grade (or so) when The Principal made me his personal milk monitor and distributor (since I was always getting in trouble for one thing or another and sent to his office by Mrs. Mendoza).

Seriously though, the assistance received from you, Doug, John (aka JaPes), and a handful of other stalwart fellows here, (Max, Chief, Kadonny et al), has been a huge help in speeding up my education and familiarity with the AR.

Back when I had gov't issued long guns my concerns were strictly competence with the weapon in the field and keeping it clean and ready to be used when called upon.

It's a lot different when it comes to the care and feeding of one's own personally owned firearm, especially in this instance as the TS is the most expensive firearm I've ever owned by a considerable margin. (The 686+ being next in line. The Glocks and Remington 870 were obtained for a song by comparison.)

So, I'm trying to get it right the first time and keep the crying to a minimum. (And since Wilson Combat appears to offer a 10% LE and Military discount, you can probably guess that it won't be long before they get a phone call...so I can finally just say: "And that's all I need..." )

BTW, I always feel that Doug's often counterpoint positions provide the perfect anvil to the hammer employed during the forging of this ongoing dialectic.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The advantages of a 1x red dot is unlimited eye relief and field of view which translates to fast target acquisition. And the red dot is typically less than half the weight of a traditional magnified scope.

When using a magnifier, it cancels the advantages of a red dot.
When not using the magnifier, this is in the operator's face.