The Slippery Slope...

[SeniorChief5352]

For you guys that have both...can a red dot be seen if you use a weapon light on your rifle to illuminate a threat?

I don't plan on using my TS as my primary inside the home defense firearm. That task is assigned to my Glock 19 with standard or extended mag which would hopefully allow me to reach an 870 with 7 rounds of reduced recoil 00 buckshot.

I have tested several times and with the Surefire weapon light on the shotgun forend, and the Streamlight TLR-1 HL on the AR, I can clearly see both the front bead of the shotgun as well as the MBUS on the M&P15.

If you had occasion to employ your AR with your weapon light either indoors or out, would the dot be washed out by the light or could you pick it up on the target?

(I realize that for close range encounters you may very well be in a quick point and shoot situation and that the weapon light alone acts as a crude aiming device with or without sights but bear with me since I have no way of testing this with an RDS.)

Thanks, gents.

Blues,

No washout issues for me with either Aimpoint or EOTech running 650 lumen streamlight indoors or out in the dark. You should be g2g.

 

[blues7]

Blues,

No washout issues for me with either Aimpoint or EOTech running 650 lumen streamlight indoors or out in the dark. You should be g2g.

Thank you, brother. That's just the info I needed to make my decision.

Alas, I have succumbed and placed an order for the Aimpoint H-2 with LT-660 (QD) mount via the LaRue Tactical site.

Can the Wilson Combat TR-TTU trigger be far behind?

(The trigger I will wait on until I have more time to properly evaluate the OEM trigger, however. The RDS I could justify as the rifle only came with the MBUS and I had always intended to add an optic at some point.)

Oh, the shame...

 

[Kadonny]

K, I think you missed my (apparently feeble) attempt at sarcasm. That's okay, you can stand me to a Laphroaig, (your choice), and my feelings won't be hurt.

Oh, I get it now....sorry I'm a little slow at times.

Regarding the flashlight, you should be fine, you are seeing the dot in the optic which projects into the light stream no problem at all.

Remember too, when I think HD I am not just thinking inside the house. I'm not fearful of a zombie apocolypse, even though I'm a Walking Dead fan, I'm more fearful of terrorism wiping out power grids, wiping out water supplies etc. that will put into motion looting, maylee etc. In these scenarios you might be protecting your doors/windows from looters/intruders etc. and that's where the red dot will shine. 10-100 yard targets with quick acquisition.

 

[SeniorChief5352]

Thank you, brother. That's just the info I needed to make my decision.



Can the Wilson Combat TR-TTU trigger be far behind?


Oh, the shame...

You're welcome.

Order the trigger today. That way while you're thinking about ordering it all weekend it will already be on the way.

 

[blues7]

Oh, I get it now....sorry I'm a little slow at times.

Regarding the flashlight, you should be fine, you are seeing the dot in the optic which projects into the light stream no problem at all.

Remember too, when I think HD I am not just thinking inside the house. I'm not fearful of a zombie apocolypse, even though I'm a Walking Dead fan, I'm more fearful of terrorism wiping out power grids, wiping out water supplies etc. that will put into motion looting, maylee etc. In these scenarios you might be protecting your doors/windows from looters/intruders etc. and that's where the red dot will shine. 10-100 yard targets with quick acquisition.

You and I are on the same page. (And my wife and I also enjoy TWD as ridiculous as it may be.)

It's (relatively) cheap insurance, especially if it lasts for many years without a hiccup. I tend to take care of my equipment so I'm hoping that will prove to be the case. Based upon the reviews, I don't think I have a lot to fear on that account.

 

[blues7]

You're welcome.

Order the trigger today. That way while you're thinking about ordering it all weekend it will already be on the way.

Don't think I didn't give it thought. But no, I'm gonna give the OEM a fair test next time out. If I find it wanting I'll bite the bullet, so to speak.

"And that's all you'll need..."

 

[SeniorChief5352]

Remember too, when I think HD I am not just thinking inside the house. I'm not fearful of a zombie apocolypse, even though I'm a Walking Dead fan, I'm more fearful of terrorism wiping out power grids, wiping out water supplies etc. that will put into motion looting, maylee etc. In these scenarios you might be protecting your doors/windows from looters/intruders etc. and that's where the red dot will shine. 10-100 yard targets with quick acquisition.

I just wanted to add don't forget natural disasters. Terrorism isn't the only real threat we face here at home.

Hurricane Katrina brought out the worst in New Orleans. The pretzels were running wild and unchecked. Law enforcement was nonexistent for +/- 48 hours after landfall. After NOPD and JPSO got redeployed it was already too late.

There was rampant looting in my neighborhood. Luckily, I didn't evacuate with my family. I was prepared to defend myself and my property. A few of my neighbors to each side of me also stayed behind. While we had wind, tree and some water damage we had no looting or theft.

In a situation like this rapid target acquisition is a must. RDS' shine in this environment.

 

[blues7]

I was living on a barrier island, (Key Biscayne), during Hurricane Andrew in 1992 so, like you, I know full well the devastation and aftermath of those natural disasters.

We spent several weeks delivering generators, water and moving other agents and their families from their wrecked homes.

Fortunately, I personally didn't encounter the scum that take advantage of such circumstances. Then again, in South FL pretty much everyone is armed so you take your chances.

When my brother and sister in law went through Sandy (up in Howard Beach, NY) there was a lot of looting and mayhem and NYPD had their hands full.

My neighbor (and shooting partner) and I here in the western NC mountains have a mutual assistance pact. If one needs help the other will come running. My other friend and neighbor 100 yards or so up the road is a deputy with the S.O. and is on board with that as well.

We don't welcome trouble but we won't abide it either.

Better to be prepared than the alternative.

 

[Kadonny]

Agreed on the disaster thing, another very real scenario. Good reads guys.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Don't think I didn't give it thought. But no, I'm gonna give the OEM a fair test next time out. If I find it wanting I'll bite the bullet, so to speak.

Until you personally experience the difference, you'll likely be satisfied with a GI trigger. It's kinda like watching an old CRT TV. It's difficult to understand how poor the old TV picture is until you see a HDTV.

 

[blues7]

I'd be curious if you could roughly quantify the difference in your group sizes from 100 yards and in shooting offhand? I'm talking ballpark here and not trying to hold you to laboratory conditions.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'd be curious if you could roughly quantify the difference in your group sizes from 100 yards and in shooting offhand? I'm talking ballpark here and not trying to hold you to laboratory conditions.

Couldn't tell ya. The only time I shoot my AR at paper is when I zero an optic, and that's from a supported position. Zeroed my Aimpoint a couple years ago and that was that.

I practice with my AR on steel at the Plinking range at our Club. This gives me left/right up/down transitions at 60 and 100yds. I can tell you from the time I acquire the target till bang is faster, and followup shots at the same target are faster, and it's a lot easier not to miss . Same at 200yds.

If had to stand in front of a piece of paper and agonize over precision groups with my AR I'd just toss it out in the woods and leave it there.

 

[blues7]

That looks like great fun, Phil. One thing I miss from my work days are the old kill houses and pepper popper setups we had. (I'm trying to convince my buddy that I'll share half the cost of putting some pepper poppers on his property for us to play with.) Of course, the mandatory gas drills were less than fun.

In Miami and on Key Biscayne we often had access to old luxury hotels which were going to be demolished for live fire drills. On one occasion our SRT drilled with the SEALS at one of them. They made an amphibious landing, (we didn't), but we joined them for the entry once they came up the beach. Those boys were a lot of fun both there and out in Marana, AZ where I got to spend a little time with them as well.

It was great to learn different styles of breaching doors and clearing rooms from SEALs, SAS, GSG-9 and state land local. Some did dynamic entries, others the "snake" etc. Various ways of engaging threats too.
Of course, military units could do things that civilian law enforcement teams could only dream of.

Occasionally we'd use an old cement factory out in the Everglades to ambush each other with live fire drills using some form of wax bullets. (That stung like hell when they hit you in an exposed area.) I got to "wax" one of the SEAL trainers and when he made a big deal about it I told him it was everyday stuff for guys from Brooklyn.

Gonna have to work on setting something up to keep the juices flowing on David's property. We don't have tons of clear area protected by the berm but it can still be made interesting over time, I think.

See how I deftly deflected the discussion of triggers?

 

[Rastoff]

I shot this group at 50 yards with a stock GI trigger:

That's while using a PA Advanced Microdot.

 

[blues7]

I shot this group at 50 yards with a stock GI trigger...That's while using a PA Advanced Microdot.

Way to go covering my six!

 

[Maddmax]

Gents,

I've narrowed my new upper assembly down to the following:

20" Bravo Company BCM SS410 Upper Receiver Group with ALPHA 15" Handguard.

Have any of you dealt with Bravo Company in the past? I'm mainly concerned with barrel quality. What say you?

This upper will be paired with an M&P15 lower that's just laying around... The rifle will be used to reach out and touch 'stuff' beyond 450 yards.

I have built a few, bought already built and have used BCM parts and have no complaints. I often use some of their parts for upgrades. But, I've gotten lazy in my old age and prefer to buy what I want as a complete unit. That and having a warrantee goes a long way.

I've dealt with BCM a few times along with Daniel Defense. I've found both to be high quality, extremely well built and very reliable weapon systems. Both a bit pricey, but not "entry level" weapons by any means either (I tend to lean a bit more towards the DD's). Over all, I do prefer mid and rifle length gas systems over the carbine length. One of the many reasons I added both those brands to my collection.

 

[Maddmax]

Blues,

No washout issues for me with either Aimpoint or EOTech running 650 lumen streamlight indoors or out in the dark. You should be g2g.

And using it with the flip to side magnifier doesn't bother anything either.

 

[blues7]

And using it with the flip to side magnifier doesn't bother anything either.

Thanks for testing, Max. Appreciate the info.

 

[Maddmax]

Thanks for testing, Max. Appreciate the info.

I've always had something going and a couple irons in the fire. Being retired ain't easy, but now that I'm back up and fairly mobile again I've got plenty of time to play and plenty of toys to play with year round.

 

[blues7]

I've always had something going and a couple irons in the fire. Being retired ain't easy, but now that I'm back up and fairly mobile again I've got plenty of time to play and plenty of toys to play with year round.

I highly recommend retirement. There are days when I miss some of the action, thrill of the investigation and chase but then I come to my senses when I remember the knuckleheads in the chain of command that couldn't find their asses with both hands.

Yep, it's much better to take my orders from the missus or our "sweet" little boxer / staffie mix, crack a beer and enjoy life the relatively stress-free life where the biggest problem on any given day is whether to buy a new trigger or not.