Two more .380s, two more fails

[smoothshooter]

A few years ago I hit a deer with my truck. I went to put it out of its misery with a shot to the top of its skull with a 380. It did not penetrate the skull so I had to shoot a second time in the heart. I switched to a J Frame after that. I have two LCP and I have had zero issues af
ter they had 250 +\- rounds through them. My disappointment is with the round not the firearm.

What kind of ammo were you using?
Sounds like it must have been some kind of hollowpoint.
I carry Winchester FMJ Flat Point in mine. It is a good compromise. Penetrates better than a HP and causes somewhat more tissue disruption than a conventional FMJ.
If I were to carry hollow points, I would alternate them in the magazine with every other cartridge being a Winchester FMJFP.

 

[jkmo]

Got the wife a 380 EZ a few months ago. I am retired LE (12 years as Firearm Instructor), was a Master IPSC shooter back in the day. Now do a lot of bowling pin shoots etc.

This EZ is spitting them out fine. I am really impressed with it. Wife would have a hard time racking a slide on something bigger. Not the greatest CC round but better than a sharp stick or something she cant handle

 

[Protected One]

what would Jerry do?



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS4p8j87EdA[/ame]

 

[bigggbbruce]

My BDA 380 has been the most reliable, smoothest operating semi I've ever owned. Just need to buy the right gun before you discount the round.

 

[Mrnurse]

To be Honest I carry a kel tec .32 sometimes or a 442.... mainly the .32. As Ive posted before I worked the ER in CLT a few years and can assure you many folks dead from small cal weapon...its the shot placement, you can drop a 300 LBS man with 1 .22 LR shot .... My CCW engagement distance for me is close...like 7 Yds or less.

 

[fredj338]

Sounds like the last NV CCW qualification I went through. Some were there with guns new in the box that I suspect had not been cleaned of the shipping oil/grease. One guy turned up with a used 1911 he hadn't shot in years. Failure central. One lady had a Beretta Nano (IIRC) that doesn't have a slide lock lever just like a Walther PP. That seemed to chafe the instructors more than her.

As for marksmanship, let's just say YMMV applied big time.

Unfortunately this is probably the norm. Many that are getting their ccw have little to no gun exp, can not shoot, many can not even load & unload their potential ccw. In most of these cases any semiauto is probably a poor choice but then so is a snub. Beginners need bigger guns that are easier too learn to shoot. So something like a G19 or M&P comp would be the proper tool. THen later, after much shooting & experience, they can go down the rabbit hole of pocket guns if they like.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Show me a 9MM the same size and weight of an M&P Bodyguard .380 or a Ruger LCP.

Have my BG380 for two years now. Not a ton of rounds, maybe 400. But never a malfunction of any kind. And all I really shoot in it are my reloads.

A Kahr PM9 gets awful close to the M&P . . .

 

[jkmo]

Before I got the wife an EZ we got her a Tauras 380 revolver. She was a non shooter before this and we tried wadcutters in a 642 but just to much for her. I am a diehard S@W revolver guy (went to the factory armorer's school in 87) but they don't make one. They should make one.

Other than a really heavy DA pull (that remarkably changed after a spring change) the Tauras is a nice little gun (and I'm not a Tauras fan).

She went from a non shooter to very competent with this gun and carries everyday in a bellyband that she says is very comfortable.

 

[Old TexMex]

To be Honest I carry a kel tec .32 sometimes or a 442.... mainly the .32. As Ive posted before I worked the ER in CLT a few years and can assure you many folks dead from small cal weapon...its the shot placement, you can drop a 300 LBS man with 1 .22 LR shot .... My CCW engagement distance for me is close...like 7 Yds or less.

No one can argue that a small caliber is deadly. Self defense weapon should be reliable. No one winds up in the ER when a disfunctional self defense weapon fails, except, perhaps, the one who carried the non functioning self defense weapon.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

This has been an interesting read to say the least. I would buy my wife a S&W EZ in a heartbeat if they came out with a model in 9mm. I don't want to add another caliber to the reloading mix.

Both my wife and I have lots of birthdays behind us and the firearms we used to shoot with no problems hurt today. Her Colt Detective Special has a horrible double action trigger and hurts her hand when she shoots. I would have to guess that is why a lot of folks want a small pistol to carry. (Her purse must weigh 20 lbs)

A lot of folks will approach me wanting advice on a new firearm but never ask about proper training for it. LOTS of firearms are carried to the range without cleaning, dry firing, knowing how they function etc. After the rifle smacks them, the slide on the 9 mm tears their hand up or the revolver hurts their hand they bring them home and give them away or sell them and go through the whole process again.

All the problems we have experienced in recent years with handguns have been operator error or failure to clean, etc, etc. Lots of range time has helped both of us and our daughter also to become safer and more accurate shooters with our Shields.

I think most of the problems discussed here, not all, are shooter error, brought on by lack of range time and proper gun handling training.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[CB3]

I apologize if this has been posted in one of the other 10 pages in this thread I didn’t read. The article describes the variety of reasons along with underpowered ammo (usually cheap fmj target ammo with lighter weight bullets) contributes to failures to extract in an otherwise usually reliable handgun.

Why Your Super Reliable Carry Gun Suddenly Becomes a Jam-O-Matic - GunsAmerica Digest

For a (not just) .380 those factors include:
New shooter, poor grip technique, loose grip, limp wristing
Small, lightweight gun with narrow recoil/functioning window adversely affected by underpowered ammo
Strong (new) recoil springs
Gun not properly cleaned and lubricated to reduce slide friction
Increased slide friction from not being broken in with a few hundred rounds
Increased slide friction by grip interfering with slide velocity

In addition, I expect the following could contribute:
Cheap guns with barely adequate QC (EG., original Keltec .32’s and P3AT’s, which the Ruger LCP copied with only a little better quality)
Serious flinching with poor grip on tiny gun
Cheap mag just outside of spec to feed properly

The .380 is a low pressure cartridge so it’s operating envelope is critical. High pressure cartridges have a broader functioning window.

.380 as a cartridge has and will continue to kill lots of people. Getting it to do so out of the chosen (smaller, even tiny) firearm may take attention paid to the above criteria. Maybe experienced shooters maintain their guns, break them in, keep them clean and lubricated, use good ammo and shoot them more than inexperienced shooters taking SD classes with (relatively new) .380’s as their primary weapon, based solely on size and no other critical reliability factors. Small guns, even wheel guns, are harder to shoot. Low pressure semi-auto cartridges are more susceptible to reliability issues.

I have no doubt that most people get their .380’s to run fine. I have no doubt the cartridge, understanding its limitations for quality ammo, shot placement and penetration, will kill.

I also have no doubt that Rastoff is accurately describing what he has seen in many classes.

 

[American1776]

The old school Beretta cheetah (single stack is good for pocket carry) is super reliable in .380 acp. Same with the Makarov PM .380 acp. I've also had SIG P232's that were super reliable. All three can be pocket carried. Anything substantially smaller starts to get sensitive to the physics required to function reliably.

 

[Whitwabit]

I have not shot many variants of the 38 but the ones I have I have not had any failures as you have implied ..


My Sig P238 has close to 500 rounds thru it and no failures .. That includes allowing 4 female members of my family to shoot it .. 3 of the females are under 16 .. Its a small size pistol and proper grip is a must for properly shooting it !!! I suspect many failures your speaking of fall in that category of improper grip .. But even at the range I have not witnessed failures from (the lack of may be the reason of the failures you seeing ) EXPERIENCED SHOOTERS !!

 

[Chief Wiggums]

reading this 3rd page gave me a headache
I'm gonna go chill in the "lounge" where its more quiet

 

[max503]

Very interesting thread. My friend swears by his 380. I swear at mine - and carry a 38.

 

[Echo40]

I've been carrying a Smith & Wesson manufactured Walther PPK/S since 2016, have fired hundreds of rounds through it, and to date have never had one malfunction save for an instance in which I attempted to feed it old carry ammo that was out of spec due to significant setback from repeatedly chambering/clearing the pistol, which I honestly probably shouldn't have been doing anyway, but seeing as the PPK/S is built like a tank, I figured it was safe to do so.

Other than that, it has never failed to cycle any ammo I've fed it, and there was even one instance at the range in which I was actually doing some crazy stuff to see just how reliable it could be. I tried getting it dirty, limp-wristing it, firing it sideways to simulate firing from a horizontal position such as lying in bed or on the ground, and finally I tried firing it upside-down off-hand with a weak grip while dirty, yet it still didn't fail. By that point, I had been at the range all afternoon, had fired over 100 rounds through it, and had sore, shaky hands from also firing my Taurus Judge Magnum, so I walked away from the range that day with the utmost assurance of the reliability of my carry gun.

 

[OLDSTER]

I've owned this little gem for nearly 4 years, and love it. At first, it took some time and 1/2 dozen different factory loads to see what it likes. So after nearly 1000 rounds completely reliable using Hornady American Gunner, I would say it's as close to perfection ( if there is such a thing) as any "pocket" gun.

 

[sigp220.45]

I put a new barrel in this 104 year old Pocket Hammerless .380 when the original one turned out to be corroded beyond redemption.

Since then its has gone through 350 rounds of mixed ball without a single malfunction, even when the original Bakelite grips shattered in mid-string (earning it some snazzy new stags).

Should be good for another century.

(I know I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I wanted to show off the grips.)

 

[Whitwabit]

In one of your posts you say the people have been shoot for a long time and another you state that they won't seek training

"Most shooters don't seek training. 90% of the students I see wouldn't come if the law didn't require it. They've all been shooting for a long time and just don't need training because they already know how to shoot. Their targets disagree with their beliefs.

Y'all keep asking about what type of failures they were, does it matter? I mean, there was one shot followed by a problem. Failure to extract, eject, feed or whatever, are really all just failures to fire when needed. In this instance they were both failures to feed and one had multiple of those.

So which is it --- are they considered marksmen ?? or not ???

Another thing if these are seeking a conceal carry permit are they familiar with the weapon they are using .. Have they been shooting THAT pistol for a period of time before applying for permit ..

I know of many hunters in my area that deer and duck/geese hunt but don't own a pistol and only shoot friends occasionally and most are lacking ability though are great hunting shooters !!! Or is a brand new pistol fresh from the factory with no break-in .. We all know some autos are finicky with certain ammo till a break-in period is achieved and they become vastly more reliable !!

But through my own eyes I have seen 38's to be very reliable .. Even my wife with terrible carpel tunnel can shoot my Sig P238 with out any failures .. and when I see my grand daughter at the age of 8 shoot it with out difficulty or failures .. but she had been taught how to properly hold the smaller pistol !!Its not her favorite to shoot .. that would be my Berretta PX-4 Sub Compact in 9mm and she is now 16 .. She has already asked for it when she is old enough to carry ..

 

[Muss Muggins]

We sold Dad's after he died, and five years later, it's one of the handful I wish I'd kept . . .

I put a new barrel in this 104 year old Pocket Hammerless .380 when the original one turned out to be corroded beyond redemption.

Since then its has gone through 350 rounds of mixed ball without a single malfunction, even when the original Bakelite grips shattered in mid-string (earning it some snazzy new stags).

Should be good for another century.

(I know I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I wanted to show off the grips.)