If the .380 is so anemic and the pistols chambered for it are unreliable then why haven't manufacturers and gun owners abandoned them en masse?
Two more .380s, two more fails
- Thread starter Rastoff
- Start date
fredj338
Member
Everything fails at some point, it becomes a matter of degrees. A pistol is a poor SD weapon to start with imo, so handicapping myself further by carrying a mousegun in my pocket, just not my choice.
Last edited:
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
I agree, the issues should be addressed, but the failures all result in the same thing, no shot. That's the main issue.
The second amendment disagrees with this. This is a topic for a different thread so, I'll leave this here for now.
Excellent question my friend. I'm surprised no one brought it up earlier. It goes exceptionally well with the question about me having personally fired a .380Auto; yes, I've fired a number of them. The .380s I remember firing:
Bersa Thunder
Ruger LCP
Llama (like a 1911, but smaller)
Sig P238
It's possible I've fired others, but I don't remember it. Out of this list, the Llama and Bersa failed. Both had failures to feed. I don't remember the other two failing in the 20-50 rounds I fired through them. So my personal experience is marginally better than my observations of others.
You mentioned the 1911. I too had reservations about the 1911 several years ago. Through some discussions with friends, I finally bought my own 1911. Sure enough, I had an issue with it that couldn't be fixed. This was verified by two other experienced shooters. I returned that gun and got a different one. Now I personally have thousands of rounds through 1911s in every condition a normal person could be expected to be in and mine have functioned without malfunction. I've witnessed others work well and some fail at different times.
There have been many that suggest the problems I've witnessed have been shooter induced. You could be right. However, why is it that these same shooters have malfunctions with the .380Auto, but none with a 9mm, .40S&W or .45ACP?
Let me be perfectly clear, I've seen every type/model/caliber of handgun fail. Yes, I've even seen a revolver fail. It happens. In the same class I mentioned in the OP, I saw two Glocks, a Sig and a S&W 5903 malfunction. Malfunctions happen, that's life. What makes me question the .380Auto is not that I've seen a few fail, but that I've seen so many of them fail in so many different hands. Not just at my classes, but at the range, while out plinking and at other classes. I admit that I'm one person and while I see a lot of guns, it's still a small sample in the grand scheme of things.
Some things are inexplicable, but I have a guess. The .380 is easy to rack so lots buy it just for that. The round itself is not anemic or incapable of effective defense. Shot placement trumps all. Even the venerable .22LR can be a decent defensive round. My Ruger Mark II and III work like clockwork.
Reliability is a funny thing. People spend a lot for a gun and they are unlikely to just discard it because of a few malfunctions. Most of the people I talk to don't see 2 malfunctions per 75 rounds as an issue. Many in this thread have said, "Mine has been 100% perfect except for a couple malfunctions under X circumstance." Well then it's not 100% is it?
Hey, if you guys are having great success with your .380s, more power to ya. If your guns are performing to your satisfaction, far be it from me to tell you different. I'm just not seeing it myself. The Sig P238 seems to be a nice gun. I want to buy one just to prove my own observations wrong, but they're a little pricey.
So you've fired at most 200 rounds total through two marginal .380 ACP handguns, one above marginal .380 ACP handgun, and one pretty good .380 ACP handgun, had a couple FTF failures, and you're condemning an entire line of self defense handguns?
Duly noted . . .
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Yes, if you choose to ignore the rest of the observations.
fredj338
Member
Yet i think a g26 or shield is about the same size with significantly better ballistics??? Just sayin.
That explains it as the High Tec Critical Defense ammo throttled back once the deer was no longer an imminent threat.
While 115gr XTPs are accurate most often I have their 115gr FMJ loaded with BE or N320.
Will be trying Penn’s 120gr TCBB Premium Cast instead of the regular 100gr TCBB PC which like the XTPs ....are very accurate in all our guns.
Last edited:
Well, to take your "observation" argument in a slightly different but still parallel direction, having observed multiple Boy Scouts in Wilderness Survival training classes fail at starting a fire with only two matches allotted, I have come to the conclusion that fires cannot reliably be started with two matches or less . . .
My take:
380's are small. Tolerances are smaller. They are cheap. Some fail out of the box, some don't due to these tolerances. Trade in and keep looking until you find a good one.
That being said I have a P3AT that I have had since 2006. I was hesitant to buy but did due to price and that thing is reliable. I run around 50 rounds through it once a year after the initial 500 rounds. It has been solid. I am lucky. I will never get rid of it. It is in my pocket every moment I am awake at home. I have other firearms I carry out of the house.
380's are small. Tolerances are smaller. They are cheap. Some fail out of the box, some don't due to these tolerances. Trade in and keep looking until you find a good one.
That being said I have a P3AT that I have had since 2006. I was hesitant to buy but did due to price and that thing is reliable. I run around 50 rounds through it once a year after the initial 500 rounds. It has been solid. I am lucky. I will never get rid of it. It is in my pocket every moment I am awake at home. I have other firearms I carry out of the house.
Last edited:
Triggernosis
Member
Neither have I. If you pull the trigger on a P230/232, it's going to work - every time.
I own the LCP & LCP2 and while the original LCP has been reliable, I’ve had trouble w/the mag popping out (I’m a leftie) while in my pocket holster (same problem w/the S&W Bodyguard). The LCP2 has not been as reliable so it would seem there is a point of diminishing return when it comes to light weight & small size. My J frames have never failed me in over 50 years of carrying them.
Except for all the poor souls on Sig forum:
sig p230 failure site:sigtalk.com - Google Search
Again, all small handguns ave small tolerances and all of them are prone to failure. Get a good one and rejoice. Don't? Send it back for repair, sell or trade it and try again until you do.
...Again, all small handguns ave small tolerances and all of them are prone to failure. Get a good one and rejoice. Don't? Send it back for repair, sell or trade it and try again until you do.
Yup. Just like you would with any other handgun in any other caliber.
BTW, I agree with MM’s two-match theorem. MOST people cannot consider two matches a reliable means of starting a fire.
Probably most of the folks Rastoff bumps into cannot reliably use their .380s. I’d guess that’s about all there is to this thread - but it’s been entertaining. 
Ziggy2525
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
- Messages
- 1,530
- Reaction score
- 3,249
Instead of “it’s not the arrow, it’s the indian” that could be the new politically correct version - “it’s not the match, it’s the Scout.”
Have you analyzed the cause of each of the malfunctions? I have been an instructor since the 80's and a competitor as well. I will go on record that many NEW shooters, especially women, should not use any semi auto. Incorrect handling causing most of the problems, often exacerbated by heavier calibers or heavy weight guns.
I own multiple 380's, and have yet to experience any malfunctions in any, including FN Browning 1910, Beretta 1935, Bersa Thunderer, and Ruger LCP2/ I frequently carry the LCP2 when I need pocket carry.
I own multiple 380's, and have yet to experience any malfunctions in any, including FN Browning 1910, Beretta 1935, Bersa Thunderer, and Ruger LCP2/ I frequently carry the LCP2 when I need pocket carry.
I’ve tried to like the .380 b/c it’s such a pleasure to carry. I’ve dumped a ton of money into the S&W and Ruger LCP, along w/ammo, only to be disappointed. Sooner or later they all have choked, or had a mag pop out in my pocket. Another bunch of money spent on pocket holsters trying to solve that and while Kydex seems to work, I’m always worried the mag will pop and I’m constantly fumbling in my pocket to ensure things are “together.”
I’m an experienced semi auto shooter (SWAT training before auto loaders were comon for LEOs) so none of the usual operator problems, and in fact shoot both LCPs accurately out to 10 yards under simulated combat conditions. Another range trip is planned tomorrow w/my J frames, but I’ll take the LCP along b/c I’m stubborn.
I’m an experienced semi auto shooter (SWAT training before auto loaders were comon for LEOs) so none of the usual operator problems, and in fact shoot both LCPs accurately out to 10 yards under simulated combat conditions. Another range trip is planned tomorrow w/my J frames, but I’ll take the LCP along b/c I’m stubborn.
Over 600 rounds through my LCP II, and not one FTF... It eats anything I feed it. Being my everyday carry, I keep her clean and lubed, and have 100% confidence in her.
That being said, I realize the .380 round my not be the idea round for SD, but I value something I can carry in my front pocket.
That being said, I realize the .380 round my not be the idea round for SD, but I value something I can carry in my front pocket.
LVSteve
Member
Sounds like the last NV CCW qualification I went through. Some were there with guns new in the box that I suspect had not been cleaned of the shipping oil/grease. One guy turned up with a used 1911 he hadn't shot in years. Failure central. One lady had a Beretta Nano (IIRC) that doesn't have a slide lock lever just like a Walther PP. That seemed to chafe the instructors more than her.
As for marksmanship, let's just say YMMV applied big time.
LVSteve
Member
Kahrs have always had strong springs. My wife can't really operate my CW9 but she is just about OK with a Ruger LC9s. She's fine with all locked breech .380s, especially Sigs and the 380EZ, and many fullsize 9s are good for her too.
Last edited:
Similar threads
