I continue to maintain that 99% of semiautomatic failures, especially in small pistols, are shooter induced. I don't know where that leaves us . . .
Two more .380s, two more fails
- Thread starter Rastoff
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Triggernosis
Member
So I will know which one to stay away from.
I currently own THE most reliable .380 that I know of - the Sig P232. The only other one that I've found as reliable is the Beretta Cheetah/Browning BDL.
Triggernosis
Member
Do yourself and the rest of the community a favor and go purchase you a Sig P230/232 so you can witness flawless operation for as long as you care to pull the trigger. Seriously. Until you do exactly that, quit blaming the .380 round for causing issues.
I owned three 380's in my life, two Interarms PPK/S, and a Browning BDA. The Walthers were one older blue steel, and one newer early stainless. The stainless couldn't hit the floor if I pointed at it. Sight alignment was lousy with the slide always feeling loose, despite the fixed barrel. The blue would shoot Silvertips into a pie plate at 7-15 yards every time, and the slide was always tight. Never a failure to feed anything with the blued, lots of failures with the stainless. The BDA only liked 90gr ball ammo, and the big grips and big magazine were a help, and it was accurate and never failed to feed 90gr ball. Not really a carry piece, it lived in my briefcase while on the road for many years. Finally sold all three to the same buyer for a fair price. Now I miss the BDA, wish I still had one, even with the ammo being so expensive compared to "way back when."
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OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
I thought that might be the case. So here are the guns:
The one that shot without malfunction was a Bersa Thunder.
The one that malfunctioned was a Sig Sauer P238.
Does this change your opinion of either firearm?
I don't think Sig makes the P232 any more. At least I don't see it on their site.
Not for me. No idea of the skill level of either shooter . . .
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
Not sure how I can make it any plainer.
All I know otherwise is one was male and one was female. The only thing you blame is caliber. That’s pretty plain. And useless . . .
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
See post #154.
That's been my experience as well. Particularly as regarding the P232.
I believe it's still made for the European market. I know it's no longer sold in the US.
Bersa 380 Thunder, a Sig P 232 and a Ruger LCP380. The Bersa and Sig each have 1K+ rounds thru them, factory and hand loads, no issues at all. The wife’s Ruger LCP has been back and fore to the factory three time now for FTF/FTE. It’s to the point now that the wife won’t use it and I won’t let her. She uses the Bersa now.
Not Getting Any Younger
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Finally got here after reading from the beginning!
Two years ago, I got a 'new' round of handgun purchase permits here in NJ and was planning on getting several 'smaller' handguns. --- I have 'full size' revolvers and pistols, and consider myself experienced and proficient with them.
So I bought a 45 Shield (LOVE it!), an LCP II, and a S&W 638.
The 638 requires some concentration to shoot well, but I like it and at 7 to 10 yards I am satisfied with my accuracy.
The LCP II is easier to shoot, but requires a tighter grip and after two 50 round boxes, my hand hurts and I'm done with it for the day! But I like it. It's flatter shape makes it almost 'disappear' in a pocket compared to the J-frame's thicker cylinder. (just my opinion).
Any 'issues' I have had with it are grip related. I would buy it again.
I'm waiting on another round of permits now and plan to get the 380 EZ.
I'm hoping my wife likes it, but it's really for me! I love the feel of it's grip (similar to my 45 Shield) and it's longer barrel and heavier weight will be preferable at the range to the LCP II. I'm 56 now, so in 10 or 15 years, it may become my favorite pistol for the range.
I expect to be shooting 38 Specials in my .357 revolvers until I can't pull their triggers anymore!
Two years ago, I got a 'new' round of handgun purchase permits here in NJ and was planning on getting several 'smaller' handguns. --- I have 'full size' revolvers and pistols, and consider myself experienced and proficient with them.
So I bought a 45 Shield (LOVE it!), an LCP II, and a S&W 638.
The 638 requires some concentration to shoot well, but I like it and at 7 to 10 yards I am satisfied with my accuracy.
The LCP II is easier to shoot, but requires a tighter grip and after two 50 round boxes, my hand hurts and I'm done with it for the day! But I like it. It's flatter shape makes it almost 'disappear' in a pocket compared to the J-frame's thicker cylinder. (just my opinion).
Any 'issues' I have had with it are grip related. I would buy it again.
I'm waiting on another round of permits now and plan to get the 380 EZ.
I'm hoping my wife likes it, but it's really for me! I love the feel of it's grip (similar to my 45 Shield) and it's longer barrel and heavier weight will be preferable at the range to the LCP II. I'm 56 now, so in 10 or 15 years, it may become my favorite pistol for the range.
I expect to be shooting 38 Specials in my .357 revolvers until I can't pull their triggers anymore!
I no longer work at an indoor range but when I did I saw many problems with 380 mouse guns. Reliability suffered with both new and experienced shooters.
The only 380 guns that worked well all the time were the CZ 83 and Sig P232/230. This was well before the Glock 42, Sig P238, and the Shield EZ.
Many people make the mistake of buying a 380 mouse gun as their first and only carry gun because the size is appealing. Nothing else matters, which is a mistake.
The only 380 guns that worked well all the time were the CZ 83 and Sig P232/230. This was well before the Glock 42, Sig P238, and the Shield EZ.
Many people make the mistake of buying a 380 mouse gun as their first and only carry gun because the size is appealing. Nothing else matters, which is a mistake.
I’ve posted before concerning my problems w/the .380s, but my LCP has never had a failure of any kind. My issue was the mag popped out when pocket carried in the soft Ruger holster in my L/F pocket (I’m a leftie). This problem was solved w/a Kydex pocket holster that covered the mag button. These tiny guns are better than going unarmed. If you’re smart enough to accept their limitations and practice often they have their place for those who, due to their circumstances, cannot carry a larger gun.
I don't know. I have a small collection of .380 pistols and none of them are troublesome. They all function reliably when fed from good magazines the FMJ ammunition they were designed to use and held firmly.
The CZ 83 is easily the most pleasant while the Browning 1910 and the Kel-Tec P3AT are the most difficult to shoot well. A 100 year old Colt M1908 , a Llama Especial and a PPK, both from mid Fifties round out the pack.
The Llama and the Kel-Tec are locked breech, while the others are blowback. While any of them would be better than the proverbial sharp stick, the Kel-Tec is the one that actually gets carried.
The CZ 83 is easily the most pleasant while the Browning 1910 and the Kel-Tec P3AT are the most difficult to shoot well. A 100 year old Colt M1908 , a Llama Especial and a PPK, both from mid Fifties round out the pack.
The Llama and the Kel-Tec are locked breech, while the others are blowback. While any of them would be better than the proverbial sharp stick, the Kel-Tec is the one that actually gets carried.
Have you noticed that both the P232 and the CZ83 are on the large side of the range of 380s?
I think part of the reliability problem comes from designers going toward the "smaller, lighter" side.
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