Victory data base

[DWalt]

V121432 would likely have been shipped in October or November 1942. Without the United States Property topstrap stamping, it would most likely have been a DSC revolver for stateside service, not military issue. The S would not indicate the improved hammer drop safety. That did not appear until early 1945, and very few earlier Victories were subsequently modified. I believe those few were all Navy revolvers. Conversion was not economically feasable, costing about half that of a new revolver. Your letter may say where the revolver went, as many were sent directly to police departments or defense contractors.

 

[Absalom]

Thanks, DWalt!

 

[opoefc]

S&W Trivia,

Victory Model Zero prefix ( Club ) guns: (Per Carl Hellstrom's not
ebook, circa 1958)

V0467090 .38 Hand ejector In S&W Showcase @ the factory.
V0469511 .38/200 for War Dep't, per Dave Murray
V0489656 .38/200 for Lt. Col. Jarrett. per Dave Murray
V0775885 .38/200 presented to Lord Inverchapel, British Ambassador,
Wash., DC. 4/16/47. ( last Victory model shipped )

Post WW2 Victory Models stolen from S&WCA Member at Tulsa Show, 2007: SV 807811 and SV 809973

Ed.

 

[Mike in Wis.]

Maritime Commission Victory Models

Were the Maritime Commission Victory Models provided to the USMC by the DSC or were they a separate contract and obtained direct ? If DSC guns, how many of the ~74,000 do folks think were Maritime Commission weapons ?

Mike

 

[DWalt]

I have read that they were procured unter a Maritime Commission contract, and shipped directly to the Maritime Commission. Perhaps others have better information. By the way, the Maritime Commission also bought a lot of Colt Commando revolvers, the military version of the Colt Official Police revolver (more or less equivalent to the S&W M&P Victory Model).

 

[kwill1911]

I have read that they were procured unter a Maritime Commission contract, and shipped directly to the Maritime Commission. Perhaps others have better information. By the way, the Maritime Commission also bought a lot of Colt Commando revolvers, the military version of the Colt Official Police revolver (more or less equivalent to the S&W M&P Victory Model).

I think that is an error. Pate (U.S. Handguns of WWII) lists ALL of the Victory Model contract numbers and quantities and they total as follows:

DSC Contracts: 22,500
Navy Contracts: 65,000
Army Contracts: 264,815

 

[DWalt]

S&W factory letters definitely mention United States Maritime Commission contracts for procurement of those revolvers, at least I have seen a couple of them that did. That's all I know. Perhaps someone with such a factory letter will post it. I have no idea of how many Victories went to USMC. The number of Victories which went to users via Defense Supplies Corp. contracts (or whatever purchase vehicle they used) is usually given as 73,932, not 22,500.

 

[kwill1911]

Sure, because many of the DSC guns were drop-shipped directly to the purchasing entity. That's why many of them show shipment to Sheriff's departments and other law enforcement agencies too. Still, all the contracts were through the Navy, the Army or the DSC.

 

[DWalt]

A copy of a factory letter regarding a USMC revolver is shown here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ory-model-u-s-maritime-commission-pistol.html

 

[captsnapshot]

replacement sylinder in 38s&w?

It is good to read about all the different Victory models out there!
I do have a Land Lease revolver used by the German police after ww2. It is stamped Pgr. FL.Brg witch will transelate to Politzai group Flensburg. The sylinder has been rebored to 38spl. In order to be able to use the issued 38spl amunition. I have had desent luck with HBWC 148grs. But it is in my innterest to shoot the original 38sw or 38-200. To get the best accuracy I belief it is best to get another sylinder not rebored? Any one who know where it is posible to buy or trade for one?

 

[DWalt]

You can certainly use .38 S&W cartridges in your revolver - provided you can find any. They may be available in Norway. While still loaded by various manufacturers, .38 S&W cartridges are not widely distributed in the USA and can be very expensive. Whether the grouping performance would improve by using .38 S&W ammunition cannot be answered without finding out for yourself by firing some. However, if you are already using 148 grain hollow base wadcutter bullets in .38 Special, I believe it would be difficult to improve upon their performance, even with a replacement .38 Special cylinder. In the US, a .38 Special replacement cylinder would not be difficult to find, but Norway gun laws may make it impossible for shipment to be made from the US directly to you. Many US gun parts dealers will not ship outside the country.

 

[captsnapshot]

Thanks for the answer. I wil be able to load my own 38s&w, as soon as I can get a proper die set and rigjt size bullets... I was unsertain if there was posible to use the 38 s&w with good accuracy in the 38spl sylinder.. I will give it a try.. thanks....

 

[DWalt]

It is possible to use .38 Special or 9mm reloading dies for .38 S&W, but not recommended. I use .38 Super dies. Remember that the .38 S&W has a slightly larger bullet diameter than the .38 Special, 0.360-.361" vs. 0.357-.358". Normally that difference does not make much difference in grouping performance, especially at short distances. The hollow-base .38 wadcutter bullet is ideal for use with the 38 S&W as it will expand under pressure to completely fill the bore.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Hello everybody

I just posted this in a seperate thread, but it may be best placed here ?

I have the possibility to acquire a cheap ($ 120) S&W Victory post-auction here in Switzerland.

It is described as US ordnance S&W Military and Police, .38 S&W, barrel length 5 inches, steel, phosphate finish (Parkerized?), stamped US PROPERTY G.H.D., smooth wood grips, serial nbr V334111

Image received from auction house

The markings look strange compared to my 1943 Colt 1911 A1, then again I don't know anything abt. these (but willing to learn ).

Any opinions, idea of year built? Is it really .38 S&W and not .38 Special ?

Thanks

 

[DWalt]

SN V334111 would date its shipment from S&W from June or July 1943. The stamping on the topstrap is correct, and indicates that it was a Lend-Lease revolver supplied to the British Commonwealth military during WWII. G.H.D. are the initials of (Col) Guy H. Drewry, who was in charge of the U. S. Army Ordnance Department's Springfield District. Indeed it is chambered in .38 S&W (which was the standard British military revolver cartridge, called by them the .380 Revolver, Mk2). When imported into the US in the 1950s and 1960s, these revolvers were often re-chambered to accept .38 S&W Special cartridges. Hopefully, this one has not been re-chambered, as that modification destroys its collectible value. Yours appears to be original and in better than average condition. In the U. S., $120 would be an unbelievably low price, as in that condition, and if original, it would typically sell here in the range of $400 to $500 USD.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Thanks a lot DWalt. appreciate the infos, guess I will buy it; will post pics when received. Guess it is not to difficult to strip and clean inside ?

After years of collecting modern weaponry, I am getting more and more attracted to older stuff, probably in line with me not getting any younger.

Already bought a 1943 Colt 1911 A1 with GHD stamp last year, so they should pair nicely. Also fell for a fullauto Thompson (Savage made) 1928 A1.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Thanks again for links, very good reading. Clearly you are THE Victory specialist. How many guns are in the database ?

Switzerland is a gun country, with a militia army, a solid tradition of shooting, with service rifles being kept at home, and available to soldiers when they finish their service for a very modest fee (full autos being converted to semi auto only).

Swiss attics are full of K11 & 31, Sig 510 & 550, as well as the whole array of Swiss issue handguns. A guy at the local range just bought a Sig P 210 army for 500.-

So modern guns are easy to obtain ... if you have the money, especially for US made guns. There is one exclusive importer for Colt, so a 1911 typically costs 2 grand, same for a Kimber. My Auto Ordnance 1911 GI replica cost me 950 vs 500 in the States. I did not check S&W revolver prices lately (dislike the IL), but they are not cheap either. ITAR has also slowed down imports tremendously, sometimes orders take a year to arrive.

Then there is a solid second hand market with more offer than demand in my opinion. The elders say that the youth is not so interested in guns and shooting. You can find good deals like 1 grand nice Pythons, plenty of reasonably priced S&W 19, 27, 29, FN HPs and so on. And you can bargain.

As to full auto weapons, unlike the US (1986 act?), they are legal to own under certain circumstances (sizeable collection, serious security and safe storage) but very difficult to shoot. You have to ask for a special permit for a specific date (cost 100.-) and a range that agrees. Not easy.

So there is a good supply of all kinds of full auto weapons, old and new (M16, AK 47, HK G33 & MP5, Glock 18, Sten, UZI, modern SIGs etc) at reasonable prices (typically 2 to 3 grands).

The 1928 A1 cost me 2200. The modern semi auto only version is sold for 2700, so it was an easy decision for me. Still awaiting permit and delivery , here is a picture from the auction house, comes with another two straight mags (20&30 rds).

Sorry for thread drift though

 

[LOBO]

Here's one for the database. Victory model, 5", in .38 s&w, with "Osterreich Polizei" stamped on the left side of the frame. The serial number is V510455. Any in fo would be appreciated.

 

[Absalom]

Here's one for the database. Victory model, 5", in .38 s&w, with "Osterreich Polizei" stamped on the left side of the frame. The serial number is V510455. Any in fo would be appreciated.

One of the better-preserved Austrian police Victorys I've come across. I almost thought it might have been refinished, but when I saw your last photo, I realized it was the lighting in the first two pictures. No question it's a nice original, except for the ill-fitting grip panels.
They were supplied to local police in the British- and the US-occupied sectors of Austria after 1945. One of the database experts will be able to tell you when it shipped originally.

 

[DWalt]

V510455 suggests early 1944 as a shipping date. There was an article several months ago in the American Rifleman about the Victories used during the post-WWII occupation period. The grips on the one pictured do not appear to be S&W grips.