Victory data base

[ordnanceguy]

Lancerdg:

Nice revolver you have there.

I agree that your letter is in error. This occasionally happens as none of us is perfect. The correct ship date should be July 15, 1943, not 1942. The finish was indeed Black Magic.

SWHF Assistant Historian Don Mundell would, I am sure, be happy to double check on this for you and correct the suspected error. Bring it to his attention and, if warranted, a new letter will be promptly issued with the correct shipping date. Don works very hard to get things right but every now and then something slips past. Even Babe Ruth did not bat 1000.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

 

[lancerdg]

Thanks, Charlie.
I'll contact Don Mundell for a corrected letter.

I was under the impression that Black Magic was a black oxide applied over a sandblasted surface that was used prior to the short-lived Parkerizing process used in 1942 which infringed on the Parker Rustproofing Company's patent. Thereafter, a different phosphate process was used called Military Midnight Black.
I got this information from a 10 year old post. Is this still correct?

 

[ordnanceguy]

I was under the impression that Black Magic was a black oxide applied over a sandblasted surface that was used prior to the short-lived Parkerizing process used in 1942 which infringed on the Parker Rustproofing Company's patent. Thereafter, a different phosphate process was used called Military Midnight Black. I got this information from a 10 year old post. Is this still correct?

Lancerdg:

No, it is not correct. Further research and analysis on the Victory Model, facilitated in large measure by the S&WHF's document digitization project, has revealed additional information that changes what was thought to be the case years ago.

In February, 1942 the Hartford Ordnance District approved a change in finish to the use of Black Magic after sandblasting with 120 grain media. That is what was used until the end of the War. Several terms have been used over the years to describe this finish ("military midnight black finish"; "rough military finish"; "blued, sandblast finish"; "parkerized finish" - note the lower case p; "military black magic finish", "non-light reflecting finish"; etc.) but after the aforementioned date all were Black Magic.

Parkerizing was only used for about one week during June of 1942, and its use was exclusive to DSC shipped guns.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[lancerdg]

Once again, thanks.
It's always good when a more simple explanation corrects a more complicated one.

 

[gunnertwo]

Sharing a new purchase, correct me if I'm wrong, calling this a "Pre Victory". There are no US markings, no "US Navy" and no proofs. Serial is 981405. I think this is from the first Navy contract of 20K. In almost 100% condition, this must have missed the war. Additional info welcome.

G2

 

[kwill1911]

That is almost certainly a DSC or US Maritime Comm. gun. And a nice one, too.

 

[Retired W4]

Side Ways W mark

Retired W4:

Your V492220 likely shipped from the factory in the December, 1943 to January, 1944 time. Your suggestion that it may be a DSC authorized shipment is probably accurate, although it is also possible that it was a Maritime Commission shipment. Many examples of both destinations are found in close proximity to your serial number.

Regards,
Charlie

I was told the W could be Dept. of Strategic Services, OSS?

I thought it might be worth getting a letter, as I have not seen this and could not find it mentioned in Pate.

The 42 is a separate issue I think.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Serial is 981405. ... Additional info welcome. G2

G2:

Your beautiful pre-Victory likely shipped from the factory in May, 1942. I agree with Kwill that it most likely would letter as a DSC authorized shipment or a Maritime Commission gun. Very, very nice piece.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[ordnanceguy]

I was told the W could be Dept. of Strategic Services, OSS? I thought it might be worth getting a letter, as I have not seen this and could not find it mentioned in Pate. The 42 is a separate issue I think.

Retired W4:

I would encourage you to get a letter on it, although V492220 will not letter as shipped to the O.S.S. The "42" is most likely a form of rack or inventory number marking.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[UltraCarry45]

I have two for the database. The first one may already be in there.
The first one is a BSR in 38 S&W and has not been converted to 38 spcl.
V623315. Most of the markings are there. If anything was on the top strap it's gone.

The second one is in 38 spcl. Most of its markings are there but the top strap sanded.
V292470.
I know the grips are wrong. I'm thinking about swapping them around.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Thanks for supplying the pics and data on your two Victories for the Database, UltraCarry45. Every bit helps.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[gunnertwo]

Charlie, thanks for the info. You may remember you helped me with one of the post war 2 USMC contract "C" prefix "post Victory" guns. I'll get some pics of that posted.

G2

 

[Torpedo423]

Howdy Folks,

Recently inherited a Victory from my father, when I originally got it the hammer thumb had been shaved off and it had rubber grips on it, story was he had bought it off a retired police officer back in the 80s who had used it as his duty pistol. Beyond that, I know nothing about it. My brother returned it to WW2 configuration using parts off Numrich and Ebay, so this is how it stands now.

Can't seem to find any proof markings or stamps other than the Made In USA, the S&W logo, S&W on the left hand side of the barrel and 38 S&W Special CTG on the right side of the barrel. The serial number on the bottom of the barrel matches the frame, but nothing else does as far as I am aware, it was in very poor condition when my dad got it years ago and was only recently restored to firing order. Serial number is V5834.

I figured here would be the place to seek some historic information on it. Thanks!

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Torpedo:

Your Victory likely shipped in the June, 1942 time frame. With no property, proof, inspection or acceptance markings my guess would be that it was either a Defense Supplies Corporation shipment or a U.S. Maritime Commission shipment.

HTH.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Hoya74]

S&W M&P shipped to the Washington DC Navy Yard on 5.28.41 and factory marked “U.S.N.C.P.C” on the butt strap (US Navy Civilian Police Corps). The grips are replacements and are numbered "798544.”

 

[ordnanceguy]

Thanks for your post, Denny. It's now in the Database. Neat gun!

Regards,
Charlie

 

[4BODIDDLEY]

Another Victory serial number

I have serial number V302819. It has seen better days. The barrel has been cut to 2", heavily polished before it was nickeled, and bubba'd to a non-functioning piece. Should someone need some parts, perhaps this could be a donor.

I would like to know when it left the mothership if possible.
Thanks









'

 

[ordnanceguy]

I have serial number V302819. ...I would like to know when it left the mothership if possible. Thanks

Bo:

It appears that your revolver likely left the factory in the April-May, 1943 time frame.

Can you tell us more about it? What was its original caliber? Are there any markings on the left top strap or the butt (other than the serial number)?

Regards,
Charlie

 

[kfields]

Here is a 4 inch Victory Model V228974 in 38 special. Going thru the pages here, I'm guessing it may have shipped in February-March 1943. How is my guess? It's 'U.S. Navy' marked, 'CD' (Civil Defense) marked and also '34' marked which I think is probably a rack number. It is number matching except for the grips.
I found this at an extremely small gunshow this morning and paid $450. I think I did good!
Just curious if anyone can add anything to what I've already mentioned above.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Kim:

I'd say that you got a heck of a deal on that one.

From the Database I would estimate that your revolver likely shipped in the January-February, 1943 time frame, so you were close.

You asked for additional comments. I can also say that your Victory was shipped under Army Contract W-478-ORD-3091. 20,000 guns were provided by S&W under this contract at a unit price of $28. When this contract was completed the left top strap U.S. NAVY marking disappeared and was replaced with ð U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D., so in that sense your revolver as one of those under contract 3091 was the last of the NAVY-marked breed.

The Civil Defense marking is a post-war addition after the gun left Navy service.

Nice gun. Hope this info is helpful to you.

Regards.
Charlie