What about those Armored Car Guys?

[SgtLumpy]

I've often wondered, and never really known. What's the deal with the armored carrier guys and use of force? I would have to guess that their company policies dictate "giving up the money" before "defending the money with deadly force". Anybody ever work for one? What do they want you to do with that glock while you're carrying all that loot out of the store?


FWIW, I hate seeing those guys pull up when I'm in or about to go into a store. I always picture some very heavily armed bad guys with explosives and armor piercing rounds, hell bent on getting the money from the truck. And I don't want to become a mushroom.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[25elk]

I feel the same as you SgtLumpy and I will not walk into, or out of, a place when I see one of them carrying a bag out to the truck. A bad guy hell bent on getting the loot is not going to be concerned about collateral damage.

 

[Mcwsky09]

Not sure what the full stats are but this Arizona Reporter » U.S. Bank Robbery Statistics, Armored Cars Most Profitable indicates only 7 armored cars out of about 1300 bank robberies and not sure how many of those occurred anywhere near a bank vs stopping the armored car somewhere enroute.
Sounds like this is a case where the movies are pretty far from reality and you should probably be more concerned about using the ATM and being held up than being anywhere near an armored car.
I would think that most criminals prefer a soft target and an armored car doesn't fit that profile. Also not sure if there is any data on how many of those 7 involved an insider.

 

[gm272gs]

I had no idea.

ARMORED CARS ROBBED: 7
7 total incidents involved armored cars. Six of these seven incidents estimated in $7,764,813.06 total loot taken. Whereas only $120,353.00 was recovered. <---THAT ISN'T MUCH !

BANKS ROBBED: 1,325
$ 9,348,956.44 is the estimated total of loot robbed from 1,189 banks (90 percent) of the 1,325 bank robberies that occurred in 2010 throughout the United States. In 232 incidents, a total of $1,396,106.43 has been reported as being recovered.

 

[jimmyj]

In my part of the world when I was working, the "Armored Cars" were white passenger vans containing a driver and a "Money Toter" armed with Taurus .38 revolvers. "The Robbed Money" was normally the Armored Car Guys taken the money out of the bags by slitting the bags' bottom and then hot gluing the slit back.

 

[RobertJ.]

Years ago when we lived in Covington, I drove for the Seattle branch Brinks for three months. That was all I could handle. 10-12 hours driving a day, and that's not counting my hour drive there and my hour and a half home. I got one bathroom break in the afternoon, no lunch or any other breaks.

Anyway, in training they teach you how to handle a robbery. They tell you if someone is really bent on getting the money, the messenger (the guy who gets in and out with the money) is probably going to get one in the head, and there will be nothing he can do about it. In the case of a random type robbery, he is trained to just give the money up, and use his gun (we had the S&W Model 64) only to defend his life. The driver was trained to drive away in any scenario. I was also armed with an 18" Remington 870. Well, after becoming friends with my messenger, I knew I wouldn't be driving away if I saw him in deep trouble.

While I was employed, there was a robbery attempt in Bellevue. Not my route, another truck. Some guy walks up to the messenger, who was headed back to the truck, he had his right hand in his jacket pocket, and demanded the money. The messenger drew his gun, aimed at the guy's chest, and yelled "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!", and the guy took off running. He was caught a short while later. Back at the office the messenger was officially reprimanded for not going according to procedure, however, unofficially he got a big pat on the back!

I quit the day after I crashed one of their trucks. We were between two small towns, (Duvall and Carnation, for those who know the area) and we were in a 35 mph zone. A lady in a mini van was ahead of me doing slightly under that, so I decided to pass. Just as I was going around her, she decides to do a U-turn! No signal, right in the middle of the highway! I wiped out her van. She had just dropped off her 2 kids, or there could have been serious injuries. She was shook up, but not hurt. She told the responding officers that she was on her cell phone with her dad, and didn't even know I was there. Our bumper was bent, and we finished out our route. When we got back to the office, it was like I had just got my cherry popped! "I remember when I crashed my first truck" was what I heard from all the other drivers. I had left a job in a sporting goods store for that one, and they hired me back the next day.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Seven robberies with 7 million stolen? Sounds like inside jobs to me. Most armored cars most of the time are probably not carrying money. All banks all of the time do have money. So if you don't have good intel but want money, you are well advised to rob a bank.

 

[Smoke]

The armored car guys around here don't make too much. I asked a guy from Guarda who was delivering to an ATM on a site I worked at who said they only made 9.25 an hour which was 1.25 an hour less than our unarmed guys.

Not worth it to me

 

[Maze 686]

The armored car guys around here don't make too much. I asked a guy from Guarda who was delivering to an ATM on a site I worked at who said they only made 9.25 an hour which was 1.25 an hour less than our unarmed guys.

Not worth it to me

Around here they make from $11.50 - $18.50 an hour. Guardia picks up where I work Armed Security part time. I started at $20.00 an hour and two of them have asked how to get hired after one of their trucks was in a shootout last month in Philly.

I know of three shootouts in the area with companies in the last ten years and one of those was in the Deptford Mall where a kid was killed. Another was outside a auto parts store I had just left ten minutes earlier.

 

[Maze 686]

Just did a quick search and found three other armor car robberies in the area in the last couple of years. All ended in a shootout.

I guess it comes down to the threat of death or serious physical injury. Robbery in itself would justify the use of deadly force in every state that I know of.

 

[Mcwsky09]

Yeah didn't see info on how many deaths or injuries.
Failed attempts would be another stat that should exist.
Aborted attempts might be impossible to count.

 

[Old cop]

Having been shot at before it's not an experience I'm anxious to repeat. When I see an armoured car I go out of my way to steer clear of it to include changing directions to get as far away as possible.

 

[feralmerril]

Years ago while I was a guard a guy that I slightly knew wanted me to work part time for his company. I wouldnt but recommended a friend of mine that was a guard with me. Both of us worked grave together and I dont know how many times he had to turn down OT with us because he was committed to work for them for probley less than a third of what we got paid on OT. He even tried working for both full time. It got to the point a couple times he wanted me to call his boss, act like I was his captain and tell his boss I have to hold "Ed" over for some emergency.
I recall seeing many times a carrier carrying a money bag in one hand and his gun out in hand in the other. Do they still do that or were they breaking rules?

 

[Doug M.]

Technically, they are private citizens with no more latitude in the use of force than anyone else.

 

[chud333]

Was'nt there a crew or several crews that specialized in robbing
armored Cars in the Boston area years ago ?
Can't recall if they we're part of the Whitey Bulger business or not.
But i do recall them being "specialists" or dedicated to robbing
armored cars. I believe it was a special about crime on the
History Channel. I do believe they have since been caught and
convicted.

Chuck

 

[feralmerril]

Somehow I always had a feeling that a certain percentage of armed car robbery's were inside jobs.

 

[KLYDE]

Was'nt there a crew or several crews that specialized in robbing
armored Cars in the Boston area years ago ?
Can't recall if they we're part of the Whitey Bulger business or not.
But i do recall them being "specialists" or dedicated to robbing
armored cars. I believe it was a special about crime on the
History Channel. I do believe they have since been caught and
convicted.

Chuck

Chuck, You are correct. On one of the heists they hijacked a rig, drove it to New Hampshire and shot both guards to death. They have since been convicted and are now in prison.
Had a heist in my town about the same time these guys were on the loose. Guard was shot with an AK in the thigh area. Clipped his femoral artery. Fireman reached into the gaping wound and pinched the artery off with his fingers. Saved the guys life. Robbery was never linked to the crew.

 

[Smoke]

Interesting thread it has never occured to me to move away from an armored car. But I also can't remember the last time I saw one.

 

[Wolf1775]

State laws vary on the guards being certified to carry a firearm too. In PA, you need to be ACT 235 certified, which goes over the various laws pertaining to being an armed guard. It is not the same as a state issued license to carry, just certifying that you are qualified to carry for the purpose of being an armed guard. Physical, psycheval, law review, and range qual.

Now I honestly can't remember what the company policy was, but I know the adopted policy was that if you could walk away without getting killed or killing someone, then do it. If that meant giving up some cash, then you did it, and the company would pay back the damages. If you honestly felt like it didn't matter what you did you'd still end up dead, then you do what you need to do; just be able to argue your case if things go sideways.

In general, you follow the same laws that any other civilian follows. Use of lethal force is only used if a threat of death of serious bodily harm presents itself. A robber coming at you with a weapon likely constitutes a genuine threat in this situation. Sometimes it could be someone acting like an idiot, which is why thinking before acting can be a very important thing.

There was one guy who attempted to rob one of our trucks, and I think it happened in one of the Southwestern states. A guy drew a pistol and rushed our truck just as the hopper (guy who exits the truck to pick up/deliver the cash) got out with a delivery. He opened fire on the hopper and struck him in the shoulder with one round in the arm. The hopper returned fire with his uninjured arm and killed the robber. Clear cut case of self defense.

We had some idiot tailgate one of our trucks when I worked for a major armored car company, and the driver followed our truck all the way into our gated off lot, even forcing himself through a closing security fence. Our truck parked outside the gate to keep all 25+ tons of steel between the van and the bay doors. Two other guards who were just about ready to clock out then exited the building from opposite ends, weapons drawn and covering the trespassing vehicle and driver. Turns out the idiot was pissed that his side mirror got clipped by the truck, so he took it upon himself to follow the truck all the way back to base. When the police were called in to respond to a possible robbery the driver was told he should find a new change of pants and be happy he didn't wind up dead for forcing his way in to an armored car company's property. Grey area, then just a clear cut case of idiocy.

Another time a group of punk teenagers, all of whom looked to be in the same gang guessing by the matching tattoos, thought it'd be funny to act like they were going to rob my hopper while I was driving. I signaled for him to be careful, and he exited the building with his hand on his gun, but didn't draw it. It's pretty easily recognizable when someone is ready to draw a firearm, and since he had a pretty heavy bag full of cash, he wasn't going to risk it. The kids just showed their palms and left it at that. My hopper kept his eye on the kids the entire time until he got into the truck. Another grey area, turned into another case of idiocy.

Most of the time it was pretty quiet though. Most people stayed out of our way and didn't bother us all too much. The movies overly dramatize what it's like, and while there are some tense moments, it was pretty boring and mundane work. I'll also say that it was backbreaking work if you did bank runs since you easily moved 1,000lbs worth of currency that day. It's even worse if you're the poor ******* who had to hand sort the coin currency for the next day's route, which added up to 8k-10k worth of coins.

 

[mikey98e]

Was'nt there a crew or several crews that specialized in robbing
armored Cars in the Boston area years ago ?
Can't recall if they we're part of the Whitey Bulger business or not.
But i do recall them being "specialists" or dedicated to robbing
armored cars. I believe it was a special about crime on the
History Channel. I do believe they have since been caught and
convicted.

Chuck

Yes, you are thinking of the "No Name Gang".
-mike

 

[Joe Kent]

In the late 60's and very early 70's when I was a young PD officer, the armored car guards were paid a $1000. bonus if they shot and killed an armed robber, Or so we were told. There were no truck robberies in that area. It truly was a different time. As an aside, there also was a "merchant" police {private} officer who for 40 years since the 30's had been and was hired by various businesses to patrol and protect their stores and offices. My old time sgt. told me that he,the merchant police officer, was tougher than nails and had been in several gunfights where the cost of jailing and prosecuting the bad guys was 0. Truly ,as Jeff Cooper said, "The past is like another country, they did things differently there."

 

[Smoke]

In the late 60's and very early 70's when I was a young PD officer, the armored car guards were paid a $1000. bonus if they shot and killed an armed robber, Or so we were told.

I find it very hard to believe that any company would accept the liability that would come with placing what amounts to a bounty on anyone's head.

 

[Smoke]

Armed security is a different job than being an armored car guard but in Colorado Springs the requirements are the same.

You have to be a licensed security officer with a firearms endorsement on your license, which means you have to have a Psych eval and go through 26 hours of training and qualify with your weapon. You can't carry concealed on duty and you can't carry a BUG (although many do) and even if you have the firearms endorsement you can't carry except on an armed site

The city of Colorado Springs limits armed guards to revolvers that are either .38 Caliber or .357 Magnums and Semiautomatics that are 9MM or .40 S&W, they may not be SAOs or SAAs. The company I work for (no armored car guards) does not allow revolvers although when I started they had some .38 caliber Charter Arms revolvers that they would issue you if you didn't have a gun; I heard they were pretty crappy.

They now have an approved list of firearms that you can purchase through payroll deduction but I've never heard of anyone doing it.

 

[Wolf1775]

The armored car company I worked for also had an approved list of firearms, and the branch manager could approve or deny a firearm if a good argument could be made. The one biggest requirement for any firearm is that it not have an external safety, so a lot of guys went with striker fired or DAO guns. We had some S&W Model 66's that they issued out in the event someone didn't have a pistol they owned or could get approved as well.

We did hire a few guys who were certified LEO's or fire fighters. With the LEO's, it was primarily part time officers who weren't hired as full time by their department. The firefighters were given shifts that corresponded with the days that they weren't on duty at their firehouse. The rest of the guys were either just doing the job to fill in time until they found better, or were older guys who wanted the work and didn't mind the job.

It's not really the highest paying job. Starting out you'll be happy with $10.00 per hour if you're certified to carry a firearm. If you come from another company with experience you can negotiate for higher, but it wasn't guaranteed. Some of the other companies may have offered better wages.

 

[NavalOps]

I work at a bank, and let me tell you, banks have nowhere near as much money in them as people think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[walkin' trails]

I always figured that the companies really don't want their employees getting int gunfights. I worked unarmed loss prevention for a decent chain hotel back when I was finishing college. Management wasn't that keen on us defending ourselves if some drunk took a swing. Security is one of those thankless jobs and those who benefit from those who risk their necks for little pay are quick to forget.

 

[WR Moore]

Back in the day, Wells Fargo used to pay a $1500 tax free bonus for any robber shot dead.

As someone stated earlier, they might have to find a way to rebrand that merit bonus if it still exists.

Again, back in the day, we did some business with an outfit that looked like a small local bank with an armored service. While talking with the gent that ran the armored service, he admitted that if one knew the schedule and got the unit visiting a slew of stores for the right chain, they might score several million. How much of that might have been coin is unknown. With the growth of use of credit cards, I kinda doubt there's any/many trucks with that kind of load today.

Forty odd years ago, I was walking past a Federal Reserve branch when the armored door opened and several armored trucks rolled out. I noticed several armored gun positions covering the door area. A comment to a guard at the door itself got the response that there were BARs in the positions. [Waste not, want not I guess. Wonder if they're still in service?]

 

[Wolf1775]

Cash itself gets pretty heavy with enough bills, even with $100 bills. Most of the currency, even for bank runs, won't have a whole lot in large bills. Yes, you can get away with quite a bit, but that's not an easy pile of cash to get rid of or hide. Hell, when I was delivering cash to the Consul Energy Center in Pittsburgh it took a handcart since the cash was so heavy. And forget about the coin currency; each box of quarters weighs 25 lbs.

The guys in the truck just want to get the day done and go home safely, but the guys I worked with had few qualms about shooting someone intent on trying to rob them. They weren't trigger happy lunatics, but they weren't easy targets either. The guys on the bank runs tended to have more experience on the job, former military, or part time police too, so they were pretty sharp. To top it off, anyone who does decide to hit an armored car will also attract attention from the FBI since such companies fall under their jurisdiction.

 

[OLDFED]

I KNEW IT!!!!!

I had no idea.

ARMORED CARS ROBBED: 7
7 total incidents involved armored cars. Six of these seven incidents estimated in $7,764,813.06 total loot taken. Whereas only $120,353.00 was recovered. <---THAT ISN'T MUCH !

BANKS ROBBED: 1,325
$ 9,348,956.44 is the estimated total of loot robbed from 1,189 banks (90 percent) of the 1,325 bank robberies that occurred in 2010 throughout the United States. In 232 incidents, a total of $1,396,106.43 has been reported as being recovered.

I did my career on the wrong end!

 

[Smoke]

I work at a bank, and let me tell you, banks have nowhere near as much money in them as people think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2 guys just hit a Wells Fargo (bank) in Centennial and got away with a half a million dollars