What do you think?

[RetCapt]

I have been carrying since I stared in LE in '64. I have always carried concealed, no exceptions (excepting uniform wear, obviously).

That is my personal preference, but it has held for me over the decades.

I have read the arguments regarding open carry, but nothing I have ever read has indicated to me any advantage to be gained by strangers knowing you are armed.

I always CCW in our church. I am the only member with LE experience in our small congregation. A few years ago, our then-pastor, who carried legally, asked me to be armed in church. I told him I always had been. Since most or all of our congregation knows I am retired LE, and taught the state mandated CCW course in our church for almost 20 years (great fund raiser as we got students from all over our 3200+ sq mi county), I am looked on as the shepherd of the flock. We sit at the back of the church where I can see the entire sanctuary and the entry/exit doors.

I have only ever had to confront one individual, who several congregants pointed out to me as I entered. That never arose to the level where I had to disclose I was armed.

Effective command presence can often (but certainly not always) deter a perceived criminal opportunity, but in my opinion that is not dependent on one disclosing they are armed.

 

[cracker57]

I think I will stay concealed, and pump my gas during the day.

 

[RetCapt]

I think I will stay concealed, and pump my gas during the day.

Excellent point cracker, and to be more inclusive, I should have gone into that.

Avoidance of potential deadly force incidents is the best practice, if one can. Since I am retired I have the option to choose. For example, I like to take night photographs in cities, then convert to black and white and make prints for a film noir look. San Francisco was an ideal venue for this. But we don't go there any more. Regardless of what the SF advocates may claim, I don't see the point of exposing myself, and my bride if she is out with me, to the possibility of a deadly force confrontation in a street robbery. I am not really concerned that I would not prevail. Since I am an old man, potential robbers might be more likely to select me as a victim (the not good part) but would hopefully be less mentally prepared assuming I was not a threat to defend myself (the better part). But it would not be worth it. Even if such were to happen, and I did prevail, one does not just walk off from a gun fight. I could not enjoy or concentrate on my photography with that on my mind.

In my LE career I worked nights until I was promoted to the higher admin ranks where no one worked nights. Those night shifts were my preference. I also went into dangerous areas, not just responding to calls, but also because that was where the hunting was best. That was what patrol was all about, and I was addicted to it.

That was then; this is now. I have always strongly preached (since I was at the pulpit in our church) to my CCW students that the first step in effective defense is avoidance, if at all possible.

What is good for them is now good for me.

 

[mk70ss]

I like to stay fully concealed, the element of surprise is big.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I wish that we could conceal carry here in Calif. It is possible after jumping through hoops with a willing Sheriff but after that you will be watched and held to the standards of people who are totally ignorant with firearms.. As it is, illegal carry is a felony and then having firearms is a moot point. When it was a misdemeanor lots of people carried. In those days the police were way different. Cops RESPONDED to trouble. Today they LOOK for it and when you look you find. Watch episodes of COPS and see stupid people do stupid things. There is a whole layer of Bozos who just don't want to do what society says you must do to be a good citizen. It is frightening to realize that these folks are running around unsupervised. Possession of meth and heroin is like a parking ticket in that world. If I was found with any of that stuff it would not be treated the same way. I have something to take. Now is exactly the time when we should be armed and alert. Now we are at the mercy of some of the most stupid people on the planet. Importing crime and poverty hurts everyone.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I won’t condemn those that open carry. But in my mind there is nothing about it that makes sense.

The problem with open carry today is that it’s not quite the deterrent it one was. People just don’t care. Some are out of their mind on drugs or mentally challenged.

The most significant problem is a lack of situational awareness and/or lack of planning. Getting gas at night in some areas is just plain stupid.

 

[cracker57]

I was taught if you don't go to a stop and rob for gas because its too dangerous, strapping on a gun doesn't make it more safe, you still avoid it!
These are words I live by...
Remember the 4 A's Always Aware, Always Alert.

 

[haywood]

Always carry never tell. Gas station or wherever, I try to keep my head on pivot, left hand in pocket on second gun witch probably makes it the first gun. The Appendix/waistband gun would be the Stuff Hit The Fan gun.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Here in AZ open carry is legal...as-is concealed carry. Only once have I seen someone open carrying...who knows how many concealed carry persons I've been close to.

To me though...open carrying is like wearing a sign saying "Shoot Me First!"

 

[Smoke]

Was having a discussion with a fellow shooter the other day at my local range.

Was talking about EDC sidearms, and my friend said he mostly carries concealed, but will display his weapon while at self service gas stations, particularly at night.

Now I know many people believe if you open carry, you might be the first target if a bad goy shows up. He stated he had never read nor heard of this actually happening. I confess I have not read nor heard of this either.

So I am wondering if any of our esteemed members have read or heard of this situation.

I’m not judging one way nor another, just seeking information.

There's another poster here who frequently comments that nobody notices Open Carry and nobody would ever really try to take your gun off you. Every time he does I tell him these stories he ignores that I said it and leaves the conversation.

I LIVED it.

When I was working as a security guard I was required to put gas in the company car before the end of my shift.

One night I was walking into a Kum & Go and a tweaker followed me into the store and tried to corner me and get my gun.

I don't remember if this was before or after the Kum & Go incident but I was standing in line at a 7-Eleven waiting for a gas receipt when a crackhead came in and took one look at me and started screaming at me that HE was security around here MFer!!! I don't remember how it ended I think he just kind of lost interest after a minute and wandered away.

I also had an old wino who threatened to kill me with an ax one morning. No doubt in my mind he knew I was armed, it was broad daylight.

The fact that I had a gun on me did not phaze him in the least. When he saw me pull out my OC spray and start shaking up that got his attention.

The context was a little different for me because I was a security guard but open display of a firearm apparently gives client employees the right to question you on why you're carrying it and what' are your qualifications are and why you think you need a gun.

Then there's always that one idiot who as soon as he sees you has to tell everybody around "Here comes the security guard, you better watch out! He's got a gun and he'll shoot you!"

You wouldn't catch me dead open carrying a firearm off the clock

 

[Smoke]

As far as getting gas at night is concerned,The only person I'm aware of who has compiled any database on Citizen Defender shootings in the United States is Tom Givens.

His database is 66.

One person was caught off guard and robbed. he gave up his wallet and the robber left. No shots fired.

Three people were unarmed and were murdered.

Sixty Two fought back and won/survived.

He didn't give a percentage but "Most" of the fights occurred during the hours of darkness (6PM to 6AM) in Gas Station or Convenience Store parking lots.

I got my gas in the early afternoon on my way home from the gym.

 

[Inusuit]

I like to see lots of people open carrying. Takes the attention off me and gives me options if things go south.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Here in AZ open carry is legal...as-is concealed carry. Only once have I seen someone open carrying...who knows how many concealed carry persons I've been close to.

"

Around 40 years ago I had the pleasure of being in Prescott, AZ on the 4th of July. Big parade in the town square; Barry Goldwater was the Parade Marshal. Excellent time!

As I watched I noticed at least a dozen or more motorcycles parked vertically to the street. Each bike had a rider and they were all watching the parade from the comfort of their seats. Each and every one of those bikers was openly carrying a large handgun, mostly in shoulder holsters, some in belt holsters.

Not being aware of the open carry rules in AZ I was somewhat stunned but I asked a police officer and he allowed that it was a well known phenomenon.

So, Snidely, how did you ever miss that kind of thing?

Lawyers have already ruined the country, it is just us against them.

That's just silly.

But, speaking of concealed carry, the obvious value of a concealed handgun was evidenced in Texas just 3 days ago. Two goblins were attempting to rob a gent at an ATM machine. BIG mistake. He saw them coming and that was that. They'll never do that again!


Man shoots, kills 2 men trying to rob him at ATM, police say

Copyright 2023 Gray Media Group, Inc.

It so happens that our hero was in his car but concealed is concealed, right?!?!

 

[jbull380]

The best defense at gas station at night is “ no be there”

 

[rct269]

I encountered an open carry fan in a Walmart parking lot. He wanted to talk about my car. He seemed quite perplexed as the conversation went on, and I decided it was because I didn't ask about his gun. Is that perhaps what open carry is all about-----a conversation piece?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Smoke]

Each and every one of those bikers was openly carrying a large handgun, mostly in shoulder holsters, some in belt holsters.

Not being aware of the open carry rules in AZ I was somewhat stunned but I asked a police officer and he allowed that it was a well known phenomenon.

Why did you feel the need to go ask the cops? If they weren't threatening anyone or disrupting the parade why involve yourself?

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

29 years OTJ in a NE city. 18 years academy FA instructor. Yeah I've seen those videos of prisoners training themselves. Which is why uniform, on duty holsters evolved into having multiple step retention systems.

Which is why for 50 years I've been carrying off duty and retired very concealed. 98% of the time OWB thumb break leather holster with a J frame. I've concentrated my training on concealed draw and fire. Yeah, I feel comfortable with 5 shots and SUPRISE.

I shoot quite regularly with a bunch of other retired cops, deputies and agents. We all believe surprise is our biggest advantage. All but two carry very small. The big gun guys never seemed to shoot small guns very well, thus their admitted choice.

Edit: No one has ever taken notice of my weapon, including those LEO's.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Why did you feel the need to go ask the cops? If they weren't threatening anyone or disrupting the parade why involve yourself?

Curiosity, my friend, straight out curiosity. 40 years ago was long ago and far away and I had never seen anything like it. I didn't complain, I just asked.

Also because I liked it and was jealous............

 

[Smoke]

Curiosity, my friend, straight out curiosity. 40 years ago was long ago and far away and I had never seen anything like it. I didn't complain, I just asked.

Also because I liked it and was jealous............

I say the same thing every time this discussion of open carry comes up.

My number one reason not to open carry is it invites people who have no business in your life, into your life.

 

[pawncop]

I want to thank everyone for their comments. For the record, I’m not a big believer in open carry for many reasons. I had all I needed working in CID and was always conscious of folks getting too close.

As it has pointed out, people are not comfortable with open firearms and I think we need curb our enthusiasm ever so slightly in this case.

I hope you have found this thread helpful.