What has happened to Smith And Wesson?
- Thread starter dantanna58
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Arkyvarminter
Member
Good post...The guy sent the guns back TWICE and they didn't repair the guns. I don't blame him for selling them. I would have too. To some on here you would think you were talking about their mother when you speak against a Smith.
DonD
Member
Yeah, we have 4 cylinder turbos that would kick the tails of most of the monster engined muscle cars, many of which when tested by the car mags were real "ringers," factory tuned, blueprinted, 4.56 rear axle ratios, slicks and single digit mileage, gross, obscene emissions, brakes that sucked big time. Yeah, a lot to like there.
NHTSA recently performed a crash test with an old Chevy against a new car. Result? The occupants of the Chevy would all have had very severe injuries and or died. New car occupants would have walked away basically unharmed. That along with massively better brakes, tires, suspensions, emissions and mileage. I'll stick with modern gear. Don
was looking at a new 629 today was ready to buy it next week now i thank i will buy the super redhawk it is 100.00 cheaper and i have not heard any thing bad about it.
Cruiser RN
Member
That may be the case with the evolution of cars but definately NOT TRUE with modern S+W revolvers.I have had 2 Model 640's blow up in my hands using factory 38 special ammo when rated for 357 Magnum,had a BRAND NEW Model 36 with a severely right canted barrel that never should have left the factory,a repair job of same which left vice marks and resulted in the same right canted barrel,and a return trip where the problem was solved when they replaced the barrel which should have been done the first time around.I can safely say IMHO S+W Quality assurance is poor to say the least.I will stick to my older Colts and S+W's any day of the week.
Yes, I realize I am quoting my own post here, but hear me out. Maybe I said it wrong. I was simply trying to say that back in the day pride of worksmanship and building or making something with skilled hands turned out pretty good items. Now, many items are turned out as quickly as possible all while quality control suffers. I was not trying to start a debate about cars or technology in the marketplace. I was simply trying to say that I would rather have a skilled laborer make me one revolver a day, than someone who can build me five revolvers a day and only half of them work. Thus, my reason to only purchase older revolvers from now on. And again, let me stress this is only my opinion.
Doug M.
Member
My last 3 cars are far better built than anything I could buy in the 70s/80s. My 2000 Focus was wrecked by the dealer (!) with 80K on it, and doing fine (but for the new model recall crud, which was annoying, but dealt with in a decent manner). The 2004 that replaced it had 180K+ on it when I sold it to a friend who needed a small car for a specific reason, and it still did not use any oil on a 8-10K maintenance schedule (I do a lot of highway driving). My 2011 Subaru is almost 18 months and will be about 70K at that time; same, except for one recall. The 1991 Mack CH I drove my last 2 years in trucking was a buggy *** not near as good as the older Superliner using old technology.
It's one thing to have iffy QC/QA standards and having these guns get out the first time. To have anything less than perfect after one trip back to the factory is simply unacceptable. More than one trip? That would be a consumer fraud complaint to the Mass AG and mine too. No question. Simply no excuse for it.
However - plenty of other companies are sucking a lot, too. Take a look at the horrid reputation of Glock after the last 5 years of real dogs, compared to the first generation G17s that ran great right out of the box and stayed that way. Glock has actually threatened to sue police departments that gave them bad evals and two departments in CA had to ban their reps from department property. The only gen4 Glock that I would buy is a 21. I would not have a SIG now; 15 - 25 years ago they were stars. It is pervasive.
It's one thing to have iffy QC/QA standards and having these guns get out the first time. To have anything less than perfect after one trip back to the factory is simply unacceptable. More than one trip? That would be a consumer fraud complaint to the Mass AG and mine too. No question. Simply no excuse for it.
However - plenty of other companies are sucking a lot, too. Take a look at the horrid reputation of Glock after the last 5 years of real dogs, compared to the first generation G17s that ran great right out of the box and stayed that way. Glock has actually threatened to sue police departments that gave them bad evals and two departments in CA had to ban their reps from department property. The only gen4 Glock that I would buy is a 21. I would not have a SIG now; 15 - 25 years ago they were stars. It is pervasive.
Arik
Member
Yes and no. Trigger pull varied depending on what the "skilled laborer" thought was good. No two pieces fit the same because no two "skilled laborers" were the same. Lemons were common just no one was online to complain about it. I doubt it was any different then today. Only today cnc machines or other machines mess up and not a person. However you get a uniform trigger pull and fit. Occasionally you get a lemon but you can now post pics for everyone to know so what amounts to a small % of bad guns gets blown out of proportion because no one posts about lack of problems. So 500 revolvers cod have been sold today that are and will be trouble free for many years to come however, we only hear about the 2 or 3 that had problems. Pretty much similar with all firearms
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mauiblue
Member
The negative feedback over the years has not dissuaded me from buying Smith & Wesson. About six years ago I bought my first Smith & Wesson handgun, a new 4" Model 686 Plus revolver with ILS. I've shot hundreds of rounds through it with no problems and it is very accurate when I do my part. I also have a Model 41 bought new a few years ago along with a 2.5" Model 686 Plus with ILS. No issues again. A week ago I acquired a new Model 638 with ILS. No canted barrel, tight lockup, excellent fit and finish. It's too bad the OP had received some lemons and less than stellar customer service from Smith & Wesson. I hope I will continue to be fortunate enough to acquire and own Smith & Wesson products as I am a very satisfied customer.
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If a S&W barrel is screwed in past the point where its front sight is at 12 O'clock the front sight will appear canted to the left when viewed from the rear while aiming the revolver. Displacing a front sight to the left moves point of impact to the right. If customer service had straightened dantanna58's front sight to vertical they would have worsened the problem he was complaining about, his 629 grouping to the left. It's odd he doesn't mention S&W pointing that out to him.
This is only the second canted barrel thread I've bothered to read because I have found the POI windage shift caused by canted barrels could always be corrected with rear sight adjustment on my adjustable sighted revolvers. I bought my first S&W with a barrel turned in past 12 O'clock in the early 1970s. Ever since, that "defect" has been on my revolver check out list, but is not a deal breaker. A canted barrel is just one of the things to consider when choosing between similar revolvers. I've owned S&W revolvers with canted barrels that were manufactured in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. In the first canted barrel thread I read Handejector pointed out that he has owned S&W revolvers with canted barrels from every decade and that they are basically only an issue for fussy gun collectors, not shooters.
Insufficient elevation was dantanna58's other complaint about his 629. It would be better if S&W always used rear sight blade heights that coincided with our cartridge choice and the way we hold our revolver, see its sights, and squeeze its trigger, but that may not even be possible for a revolver that fires bullets varying in velocity from roughly 700 fps to 1600 fps. It is easy to change S&W rear blades using kits they sell for around $10-$15. Instructions for changing them are in 500 Magnum Nut's FAQs sticky in the gunsmithing forum.
To prevent boring readers to death the lock is a forbidden topic on this forum so I will only briefly say that I've never heard of one causing a problem except on the internet, and at the ranges I frequent locks are not even worth mentioning.
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Mr. Tettnanger
Member
Is S&W the new Taurus?
DonD
Member
If you want to bitch about a product, I also think it's appropriate to compliment when one is excellent. After one of my .500 Mag purchases, I called the customer service line and told them how much I liked the gun. The female CS said "You mean you just called to say thanks?" I said yes, she said no one ever did that before in her experience. That isn't right.
That's like working for a boss who never appreciates your excellent performance but harshly criticizes any task you do that is less than outstanding. The boss from hell. Don
nrtoma
Member
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I ordered a few accessories from S&W and was unimpressed with their cutomer No service. They managed to make me a non cutomer for life for less than a hundred dollars in my case. I suppose the demand for weapons under the current regime in DC would be one explaination. They should just do what they can and do it well rather than trying to do everyting thay can and doing it half assed.
DHENRY
Member
Like many products, older is (usually) better.
Don
Don
There are lemons everywhere. I bought 6 Ruger GP100's, new and used before I got one with the barrel screwed in parallel to the frame. That is the worst experiance I have had. I have had lemons in ALL the gun manufacturers. I won't name them as someone will be butt hurt.
As for customer service, I have had nothing but very good results. I have had a few where the person sounded they were in a hurry, but I just made myself clear and concise and have had good results. RCBS has the greatest customer service I have ever experianced.
As for compliments---- I do it every chance I get. Doing so while my boys were in school gave great weight if I had a problem with something in the school. There was a FedEx delivery truck driver that stopped while I was jogging on the gravel county road I live on so as not to dust me out. I stopped and thanked her for her kindness, got here name and went in to tell her boss what a considerate driver she was. He just sort of stared at me with a blank look on his face. He finally said you came to tell me that? He said he couldn't believe it. I make lots of new friends by giving compliments when they are due!
OP, Don't give up on S&W. Just keep plugging away. Smile and say Please and Thank you!
John
As for customer service, I have had nothing but very good results. I have had a few where the person sounded they were in a hurry, but I just made myself clear and concise and have had good results. RCBS has the greatest customer service I have ever experianced.
As for compliments---- I do it every chance I get. Doing so while my boys were in school gave great weight if I had a problem with something in the school. There was a FedEx delivery truck driver that stopped while I was jogging on the gravel county road I live on so as not to dust me out. I stopped and thanked her for her kindness, got here name and went in to tell her boss what a considerate driver she was. He just sort of stared at me with a blank look on his face. He finally said you came to tell me that? He said he couldn't believe it. I make lots of new friends by giving compliments when they are due!
OP, Don't give up on S&W. Just keep plugging away. Smile and say Please and Thank you!
John
My neighbor who is well into his 90s has been a S&W distributor since 1946. One day we were talking in his office about S&W quality and his opinion was like most here. When he started out the company was run by gun guys not bean counters. The pre lock, pre mim revolvers required a lot of fitting by gunsmiths who knew what they were doing. They had an apprentice system with career employees many of whom had 30/40 years with the company. The majority of craftsmen that made up the company are long gone. There is a good reason a lot of us here seek out the older revolvers. Does S&W still make a decent revolver, yes they do. And as much as I dislike the lock and MIM parts I own 2, a Model 632 and a Governor. I bought them because I thought they were very unique and they have been troublefree. But I still seek out and buy older models and comparing them to the new products the differences are like night and day.
I will give the company credit for staying on the forefront of technology. And as firearms trends have changed so have manufacturing methods.
I will give the company credit for staying on the forefront of technology. And as firearms trends have changed so have manufacturing methods.
austintexas
Member
I don't own a Smith with a lock or mim parts. I don't see the need, I can find an older well maintained pistol that is the same model, caliber etc without them and usually for less money than brand new. The last pistol I had to send to Smith for repair was their 1911 that kept dropping the hammer. I had to send it back twice to get it fixed. This was before they started paying for the shipping both ways. Smith did send and extra magazine the last time to repay me for the inconvenance. My favorite Smith is my Registered Magnum 3 1/2", it has the sweetest trigger pull and is very accurate, too bad they can't afford to make them like that anymore.
SWCA 892
SWCA 892
Customer service has been top notch, in my experiences with them. They've sent me more parts than I can remember for no charge at all, though I was willing to pay for every one of them.
Regards 18DAI- Status
