one eye joe
US Veteran
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA HOW REMOVING THE FRONT SIGHT OF A WEAPON, COULD POSSIBLY RENDER IT ANY MORE "SAFE"......
IMHO, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER VALIDATION THAT THE TERM. "MILITARY INTELLIGENCE" IS INDEED AN OXYMORON ! ! !
What's your experience with the M-14
- Thread starter Backlighting
- Start date
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA HOW REMOVING THE FRONT SIGHT OF A WEAPON, COULD POSSIBLY RENDER IT ANY MORE "SAFE"......
IMHO, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER VALIDATION THAT THE TERM. "MILITARY INTELLIGENCE" IS INDEED AN OXYMORON ! ! !
Richard Simmons
Member
Pretty sure that removing the front sight was intended to serve as an identifier that the weapon had been altered from original.
Removing the front sight of an 03-A3 for drill practice was likely a very wise thought. I'm sure it prevented a lot of nasty cuts while learning how to toss them around.....
Richard Simmons
Member
That too makes perfect sense. I thought about that as a reason but when I think about "drilling" with a firearm I think manual of arms where a front sight isn't an issue but for a "drill team" where they actually flip them around it makes sense.
Aggie1906
US Veteran
M-14 1966
OK, this is an old thread, but...
Ft Leonard Wood, Summer '66...
Carried, studied, stripped, finally shot. Semi set up only.
Nobody shot Expert in my company. Rain had wet
the pop-ups. Sharpshooter. Yep, always have said out to 300 meters you are mine, one box not two. We were motivated shooters. Pretty sure range was measured in meters not yards.
Got a Norinco pre-ban in the 90s just because I could .Yes, they got heavier.
In Germany (lucky me) we shot once at a range with
Canadian Bulls to sight in. That was it, but I was in
the Engineers and we had other stuff to do.
One big guy in my squad got a full auto with bipod. Only watched one get shot, in basic, after infiltration. Wasted ammo.
Would want one in an open country fight for sure.
We only had M14s and Bloopers then. Oh, and some Pigs and M2s in the arms room for the heavy equipment guys.
SP5 E5
OK, this is an old thread, but...
Ft Leonard Wood, Summer '66...
Carried, studied, stripped, finally shot. Semi set up only.
Nobody shot Expert in my company. Rain had wet
the pop-ups. Sharpshooter. Yep, always have said out to 300 meters you are mine, one box not two. We were motivated shooters. Pretty sure range was measured in meters not yards.
Got a Norinco pre-ban in the 90s just because I could .Yes, they got heavier.
In Germany (lucky me) we shot once at a range with
Canadian Bulls to sight in. That was it, but I was in
the Engineers and we had other stuff to do.
One big guy in my squad got a full auto with bipod. Only watched one get shot, in basic, after infiltration. Wasted ammo.
Would want one in an open country fight for sure.
We only had M14s and Bloopers then. Oh, and some Pigs and M2s in the arms room for the heavy equipment guys.
SP5 E5
Gene L
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Glad I saw this old thread. Like many others, I trained 1967 on an M 14 in basic, AIT, carried one in OCS that summer, and in Ranger School in the early fall. In AIT, we fired the 14-something, an "automatic rifleman" in each Infantry squad at that time, which I think was left over from the Korean War. Had a pistol grip wooden stock, a special sling you pulled down on, and a robust aluminum bi pod . Almost no one qualified with it. Wildly uncontrolable after 2 rounds, and hard to work the trigger to get that few shots. The rifles in OCS and Ranger school, were never cleaned, that I can remember, they were training aids. All the M 16s were going to VN, and so did I. Like someone else here said, I trained on a rifle I never used in combat, and was issued a rifle (M 16) I never trained with...68-69.
When I was a LEO, about 84 or so, the Army put on what they called a "Counter-Sniper Course" for Law Enforcement. Two weeks, all shooting. It was at Ft Benning and we used the M 14 Sniper version and had no problem hitting the steel man-sized targets at 900 yards.
Until then, I never held the M 14 in high regard, a lot of reason because when I was a GI, I toted one of the heavy lumps up slopes and hills, like Greasy Mountain in N. GA, knowing I wouldn't be issued in VN.
About six months ago, a friend had an M 1A he needed to sell, and more or less to help him out, I bought it. Much to my surprise it's pretty damn accurate.
None of the M 14s we carried in 1967 had the full-auto capability, except the ones I mentioned in the Automatic Rifleman ones, and they weren't select fire. I think the Army went to the M 14 because it's a shorter action. IIRC, unloaded it weighs 9.1 pounds.
When I was a LEO, about 84 or so, the Army put on what they called a "Counter-Sniper Course" for Law Enforcement. Two weeks, all shooting. It was at Ft Benning and we used the M 14 Sniper version and had no problem hitting the steel man-sized targets at 900 yards.
Until then, I never held the M 14 in high regard, a lot of reason because when I was a GI, I toted one of the heavy lumps up slopes and hills, like Greasy Mountain in N. GA, knowing I wouldn't be issued in VN.
About six months ago, a friend had an M 1A he needed to sell, and more or less to help him out, I bought it. Much to my surprise it's pretty damn accurate.
None of the M 14s we carried in 1967 had the full-auto capability, except the ones I mentioned in the Automatic Rifleman ones, and they weren't select fire. I think the Army went to the M 14 because it's a shorter action. IIRC, unloaded it weighs 9.1 pounds.
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Sistema1927
US Veteran
My active duty rifle was the M16A1, but I did have an M14 that was issued to me for 4 years of HS ROTC. We were bused to the rifle range at Ft. Bliss a couple of times and allowed to shoot a few rounds for familiarization, but mostly we field stripped them, cleaned them, reassembled them, rubbed BLO into the stocks, "lather, rise, repeat", etc. etc.
However, most of us were Army brats, and I, along with a few others, had a few purloined magazines full of ball ammo in our bedrooms. Not with a thought of becoming infamous as a school shooter, but as insurance should the "Reds" attack. This was years before "Red Dawn" came out, but the "Red Threat" was alive and well in our teenage minds. The thought was that we would check out our rifles from the ROTC armory, and do our part protecting our community. Sounds silly now, but made perfect sense then.
However, most of us were Army brats, and I, along with a few others, had a few purloined magazines full of ball ammo in our bedrooms. Not with a thought of becoming infamous as a school shooter, but as insurance should the "Reds" attack. This was years before "Red Dawn" came out, but the "Red Threat" was alive and well in our teenage minds. The thought was that we would check out our rifles from the ROTC armory, and do our part protecting our community. Sounds silly now, but made perfect sense then.
M-14 in Basic Training at Ft. Bliss, March to May ‘68
M-16 in AIT at Ft. Polk (and Tiger Ridge!) May to July ‘68
M-14 in OCS at Ft. Belvoir, July ‘68 to Feb ‘69
I liked both rifles but haven’t fired either one of them again since OCS. From Ft. Belvoir I was sent to Ft. Devens for Army Security Agency (ASA) Officers Basic (Feb to Oct ‘69) and then on to HQ USASAE in Frankfurt and Augsburg, Germany, Oct ‘69 to Jun ‘72. The ASA units in Europe were issued M-14’s during this period.
M-16 in AIT at Ft. Polk (and Tiger Ridge!) May to July ‘68
M-14 in OCS at Ft. Belvoir, July ‘68 to Feb ‘69
I liked both rifles but haven’t fired either one of them again since OCS. From Ft. Belvoir I was sent to Ft. Devens for Army Security Agency (ASA) Officers Basic (Feb to Oct ‘69) and then on to HQ USASAE in Frankfurt and Augsburg, Germany, Oct ‘69 to Jun ‘72. The ASA units in Europe were issued M-14’s during this period.
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Titan Tom
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I guess I missed this thread the first time around, I'm glad it came around again so I can add my 2 cents worth...
First, I noticed that most of y'all are either USA or USMC, and most with experience around the Vietnam Era, plus or minus a few years on either side of 'Nam. We've also heard from a few Squids, 'cause the USN rightly decided that a 30 cal service weapon has a definite place on board ships because of the extended ranges one might expect using a rifle at sea.
When I joined the Navy, I went to basic training in Orlando, FL, starting on 1 Oct 78. Too young for VN, too old for the many fracases that followed starting in '91 and which still seem to be with us. My chosen career path, to be a Missile Technician aboard an SSBN, seemed to be one where I would received an absolute minimum of small arms training, as I was bound to a more 'technical' career field. After Boot Camp I was off to Sub School, then almost a year at Dam Neck, VA, for Advanced Electronic 'A' School and Poseidon Missile 'C' School. My first duty assignment had me deployed to Kings Bay, GA to the submarine tender stationed there, the USS Simon Lake. After my 2-year tour as a 'Tender Puke', I knew I was finally bound for a Boat, and it ended up being the USS Casimir Pulaski, SSBN 633 (Gold Crew). We affectionately called the 633 the 'Crazy Polack'. Left the service in '84 to turn my training into a career and never looked back.
When I was a young snot-nose, I was engaged with my local NRA Junior Rifle Team, and that's where I learned the basics of rifle marksmanship, using an old Remington 513T loaned to me by the club. That training served me in the military and throughout my shooting life to this day.
While on board the Simon Lake, all Missile Techs were assigned to the Weapons Dept, and we were all trained to serve as Security Detail, to augment our Marines (MARDET) who provided security during operations where we moved missiles or individual warheads. During these moves, or during security drills or events, we were issued small arms that included the M14, Remington 870 riot guns, and 1911s. During my early time on the Simon Lake, we received extensive training on these weapons. On a trip down to Mayport Naval Station, we were given an opportunity to shoot the M14 'For Record'. This was also the very first time I had held an M14 in my hands and it was, as it turned out, a pretty 'formative moment' for me. We received some basic handling instructions, which included a very detailed rundown on the sights and their proper operation. Then we were set loose to get the rifles sighted in so we could shoot for an official score. Once my sighting in was done, I knew I was VERY comfortable with this whole 'M14' thing, and we started on the record shots. We shot at subtended targets at a relatively short range. I dredged up all I could recall from my Junior NRA days, and found no problem hitting the middle with the M14, every single time. I very easily earned my Rifle Expert Medal that day, although I probably shot it at a much shorter range that most of y'all Soldiers or Marines had to. While I was still shooting those 30 'record' rounds, I made a vow to the Moon & Stars that I would OWN one of these as soon as I could afford it.
It took me 9 years to do so, well after my Navy time, and after I was stared on a career that might make me enough scratch to be able to afford one. In April, 1989, I traded an old 870, an Astra A-80, and $200 for a brand new SA M1A with a TRW barrel. I became involved with the NRA/DCM High Power Program, and discovered that earning an 'Expert' rating with the DCM was far and away more involved and difficult that my easy-peasy Navy experience. After a while I did it, and then Life got in between me and my High Power days, although I hope to shoot HP competition again one day before he Big Dirt Nap. I still have that first M1A, and all of my gear, so it just may happen.
After I was transferred to the submarine, we took the Pulaski (which had just completed an extended overhaul) out for a series of tests and operations that had to be completed by both crews before we could be given our 'Strategic Load-Out' of Trident I SLBMs. This gave us several opportunities, while operating near Andros Island in the Bahamas, to have what we called a 'Steel Beach' party, which was basically a cook-out on the Missile Deck, and included a Swim Call. During swim call, it was Navy procedure to have a 'Shark Watch' on duty up in the sail, armed with an M14, 'just in case'. Our 'swim call 'shark watch' was always a particular Torpeckerman 1st Class Named Conley, who was also our Ship's Armorer. Conley had an M14 with the selector/disconnector doo-dads installed. While we swam, we were really nervous about a shark showing up, not 'cause we thought we might get bit, but that we would probably get hit with that damn FA M14 in Coney's hands! Everyone on board called Conley's M14 'Otto' - get it?
Like most of y'all, I now own quite a few rifles, including at least two custom jobs (221 Fireball and 6mm PPC) that I use in local competitions, but if the sad day ever comes when I *must* pick up a rifle and put it to it's intended use, it WILL be my old M1A!
To me, the M14/M1a is not a rifle, it is THE Rifle!
Take care,
Tom
First, I noticed that most of y'all are either USA or USMC, and most with experience around the Vietnam Era, plus or minus a few years on either side of 'Nam. We've also heard from a few Squids, 'cause the USN rightly decided that a 30 cal service weapon has a definite place on board ships because of the extended ranges one might expect using a rifle at sea.
When I joined the Navy, I went to basic training in Orlando, FL, starting on 1 Oct 78. Too young for VN, too old for the many fracases that followed starting in '91 and which still seem to be with us. My chosen career path, to be a Missile Technician aboard an SSBN, seemed to be one where I would received an absolute minimum of small arms training, as I was bound to a more 'technical' career field. After Boot Camp I was off to Sub School, then almost a year at Dam Neck, VA, for Advanced Electronic 'A' School and Poseidon Missile 'C' School. My first duty assignment had me deployed to Kings Bay, GA to the submarine tender stationed there, the USS Simon Lake. After my 2-year tour as a 'Tender Puke', I knew I was finally bound for a Boat, and it ended up being the USS Casimir Pulaski, SSBN 633 (Gold Crew). We affectionately called the 633 the 'Crazy Polack'. Left the service in '84 to turn my training into a career and never looked back.
When I was a young snot-nose, I was engaged with my local NRA Junior Rifle Team, and that's where I learned the basics of rifle marksmanship, using an old Remington 513T loaned to me by the club. That training served me in the military and throughout my shooting life to this day.
While on board the Simon Lake, all Missile Techs were assigned to the Weapons Dept, and we were all trained to serve as Security Detail, to augment our Marines (MARDET) who provided security during operations where we moved missiles or individual warheads. During these moves, or during security drills or events, we were issued small arms that included the M14, Remington 870 riot guns, and 1911s. During my early time on the Simon Lake, we received extensive training on these weapons. On a trip down to Mayport Naval Station, we were given an opportunity to shoot the M14 'For Record'. This was also the very first time I had held an M14 in my hands and it was, as it turned out, a pretty 'formative moment' for me. We received some basic handling instructions, which included a very detailed rundown on the sights and their proper operation. Then we were set loose to get the rifles sighted in so we could shoot for an official score. Once my sighting in was done, I knew I was VERY comfortable with this whole 'M14' thing, and we started on the record shots. We shot at subtended targets at a relatively short range. I dredged up all I could recall from my Junior NRA days, and found no problem hitting the middle with the M14, every single time. I very easily earned my Rifle Expert Medal that day, although I probably shot it at a much shorter range that most of y'all Soldiers or Marines had to. While I was still shooting those 30 'record' rounds, I made a vow to the Moon & Stars that I would OWN one of these as soon as I could afford it.
It took me 9 years to do so, well after my Navy time, and after I was stared on a career that might make me enough scratch to be able to afford one. In April, 1989, I traded an old 870, an Astra A-80, and $200 for a brand new SA M1A with a TRW barrel. I became involved with the NRA/DCM High Power Program, and discovered that earning an 'Expert' rating with the DCM was far and away more involved and difficult that my easy-peasy Navy experience. After a while I did it, and then Life got in between me and my High Power days, although I hope to shoot HP competition again one day before he Big Dirt Nap. I still have that first M1A, and all of my gear, so it just may happen.
After I was transferred to the submarine, we took the Pulaski (which had just completed an extended overhaul) out for a series of tests and operations that had to be completed by both crews before we could be given our 'Strategic Load-Out' of Trident I SLBMs. This gave us several opportunities, while operating near Andros Island in the Bahamas, to have what we called a 'Steel Beach' party, which was basically a cook-out on the Missile Deck, and included a Swim Call. During swim call, it was Navy procedure to have a 'Shark Watch' on duty up in the sail, armed with an M14, 'just in case'. Our 'swim call 'shark watch' was always a particular Torpeckerman 1st Class Named Conley, who was also our Ship's Armorer. Conley had an M14 with the selector/disconnector doo-dads installed. While we swam, we were really nervous about a shark showing up, not 'cause we thought we might get bit, but that we would probably get hit with that damn FA M14 in Coney's hands! Everyone on board called Conley's M14 'Otto' - get it?
Like most of y'all, I now own quite a few rifles, including at least two custom jobs (221 Fireball and 6mm PPC) that I use in local competitions, but if the sad day ever comes when I *must* pick up a rifle and put it to it's intended use, it WILL be my old M1A!
To me, the M14/M1a is not a rifle, it is THE Rifle!
Take care,
Tom
Inusuit
Member
January 1969 at Fort Lewis for basic training. We carried the M14 and fired it for qualification. Had one range day of "familiarization" with the M16. My hunting rifle at the time was a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, so I much preferred the 14. Didn't think the recoil was harsh, although some recruits with no firearms experience complained. Qualified expert with the highest score in my platoon. That was the last time I fired one. Never got orders to Vietnam and spent the rest of my time as company clerk at Fort Belvoir. I have Chinese M1A that I've used in competition. Very reliable and accurate.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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BRMC, BCT C-4-2, Fort Dix, Summer of 1967 (I was an RA). Keep saying I will get an M1A "someday".
The one thing I enjoyed most in Basic was-THE BAYONET !!!!
The one thing I enjoyed most in Basic was-THE BAYONET !!!!
I enlisted in 87 so was issued and trained on M16A1s. However I made the Precision Rifle Team in 89 and was issued a NM M14 and all the 7.62 Special Ball ammo I could shoot. When Desert Storm kicked in I told my Battery Commander that if we were deployed I wanted to take my M14 with me. He thought about it as said my M16 had to go because it was on the TOE. However the M14 was assigned to me personally by the Army so if I took that along it was up to me.
We were not deployed but I remember watching a news clip from the time where a solder was being interviewed who had just returned from "night time guard duty". He has his rifle wrapped in a poncho and as I watched I realized it was a M14 and I would have bet anything the poncho was covering a night scope.
Back to your question. IMHO opinion there is nothing wrong with the M14 except that by the time it was issued it was obsolete. 15 years earlier and it would have been the stuff of legends. From a civilian standpoint if you can't have full auto what advantage does the M14 have over the M1 and the M1 is a handier package, especially in the "tanker" configuration. Part of the problem was the US Militarys obsession with the full power 30 caliber cartridge at the time. Russia saw the advantage of a mid range cartridge early and went with the 7.62x39.
Imagine a M14 in a 6.5 ctg like the Grendel or Creedmore and a 30 round magazine. We'd probably still be using it to this day! It would have worked in Vietnam and would work in the desert.
We were not deployed but I remember watching a news clip from the time where a solder was being interviewed who had just returned from "night time guard duty". He has his rifle wrapped in a poncho and as I watched I realized it was a M14 and I would have bet anything the poncho was covering a night scope.
Back to your question. IMHO opinion there is nothing wrong with the M14 except that by the time it was issued it was obsolete. 15 years earlier and it would have been the stuff of legends. From a civilian standpoint if you can't have full auto what advantage does the M14 have over the M1 and the M1 is a handier package, especially in the "tanker" configuration. Part of the problem was the US Militarys obsession with the full power 30 caliber cartridge at the time. Russia saw the advantage of a mid range cartridge early and went with the 7.62x39.
Imagine a M14 in a 6.5 ctg like the Grendel or Creedmore and a 30 round magazine. We'd probably still be using it to this day! It would have worked in Vietnam and would work in the desert.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
The Russian engineers/designers found out our 223/308 were more accurate over there russian calibers probably because of the design of our brass case. They tested them in there Ishmazh saigas.
I think the best new caliber would be a 6.5 mm x 40 mm or a 7 mm x 40 mm because of there stable in flight accuracy. I have no respect for the 223 nor the black rifle that shoots it.
I think the best new caliber would be a 6.5 mm x 40 mm or a 7 mm x 40 mm because of there stable in flight accuracy. I have no respect for the 223 nor the black rifle that shoots it.
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Gene L
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When I was in VN, in 68 the artillery units were issued the M 14. The biggest fault I see for the M 14 as a combat rifle is that huge opening where the bolt goes. Invites fouling. My sniper carried one with the scope, can't remember the model no.
Now that I'm no longer in the jungle, where mud, dirt, and sand are not to worry about, I've come to really like my M 1A. But it's a target rifle...mine doesn't have the NM barrel but it's pretty darn accurate.
Still, I've owned several ARs, and they were quite a bit more accurate, but then they had scopes mounted. ARs have a reputation for accuracy in general. I don't think the 14s did.
Now that I'm no longer in the jungle, where mud, dirt, and sand are not to worry about, I've come to really like my M 1A. But it's a target rifle...mine doesn't have the NM barrel but it's pretty darn accurate.
Still, I've owned several ARs, and they were quite a bit more accurate, but then they had scopes mounted. ARs have a reputation for accuracy in general. I don't think the 14s did.
No experience with the M 14 here. "My Army" used the HK G3 made under license. The thing in common is the caliber. I can say it's an handfull if you decide to fire more than a 3 round burst in full auto.
I have had and built several M1A's. Built one with all Winchester parts except for the S.A. receiver, and the other one was made with Springfield Armory (U.S. Military) parts, except for receiver & barrel.
Have had 2 N.M. rifles, 1 was a Springfield Armory Super Match, and still have one, that is built on an Armscorp Receiver. I sent the gun to Jon Wolfe who glass bedded the receiver, installed a new match barrel on it, and did a trigger job too. Has N.M. front and rear sights, and a N.M flash hider.
My 1st M1A was a Divine, TX rifle, built by Elmer Ballance. Sold it to a buddy of mine and wish I had it back.
Have had 2 N.M. rifles, 1 was a Springfield Armory Super Match, and still have one, that is built on an Armscorp Receiver. I sent the gun to Jon Wolfe who glass bedded the receiver, installed a new match barrel on it, and did a trigger job too. Has N.M. front and rear sights, and a N.M flash hider.
My 1st M1A was a Divine, TX rifle, built by Elmer Ballance. Sold it to a buddy of mine and wish I had it back.
Curt Blunt
Member
I've enjoyed reading the proceeding stories. Thanx for sharing.
Drafted in August '67, I was issued an M14 at Fort Bliss, Texas. I liked the rifle better than the M1 I had shot in high school. The stock wasn't as clubby. Was trained as a cook in Fort Huachuca, Az. Landed in West Germany in January and assigned to a helicopter company. We were issued the M14 and took it out on alert and shot it occasionally.
Thirty years later I would go to the range with my ex's husband and shoot his M1A National Match. When he died my ex gave me the rifle. I haven't shot it much lately due to the weight but I think of it as more of a rifle that my M&P 15. Steel and walnut and all of that.
Drafted in August '67, I was issued an M14 at Fort Bliss, Texas. I liked the rifle better than the M1 I had shot in high school. The stock wasn't as clubby. Was trained as a cook in Fort Huachuca, Az. Landed in West Germany in January and assigned to a helicopter company. We were issued the M14 and took it out on alert and shot it occasionally.
Thirty years later I would go to the range with my ex's husband and shoot his M1A National Match. When he died my ex gave me the rifle. I haven't shot it much lately due to the weight but I think of it as more of a rifle that my M&P 15. Steel and walnut and all of that.
Engieman
Member
Started with the M14 as a young Boy Scout. Yup, sometime in the mid 60’s....Troop was invited to Barstow Marine base for a ‘camp out.’ Stayed in the Quonset huts, ate in the mess hall, ran the obstacle course, stood inspection, and of course the highlight was a trip to the Rifle Range. Instructors taught us the positions, gun safety, and then let us shoot through a couple clips (under very close supervision). Absolutely loved it! That experience was one of the foundational events of my life. Any guesses which branch of the service I signed up for?
Aggie1906
US Veteran
Navy M-14 training
Well, it's just me back again. Great board, and great thread!
My Squid son-in-law likes to harass me about
my wussy Army Sharpshooter rating, following weeks with my
personal M-14 in Basic. I still claim foul. Hey, I was Jr. NRA too, with lots of kid .22 outdoor time. He said he was given one day of training and the same day fired for record. Yep, Expert. Insufferable even yet. I think he deck guard pointed it at a dolphin once.
I like him, though he told me the reason the Coast Guard wouldn't take me back in '62 was that I was under 6' and could not wade to shore in Lake Michigan if the boat sank. They told me it was because I wore glasses. Lots of candidates, and not even a war on! Army was happy to see me so much they were following my educational career just a few years later.
Draft Volunteer, made and won a bad bet.
Well, it's just me back again. Great board, and great thread!
My Squid son-in-law likes to harass me about
my wussy Army Sharpshooter rating, following weeks with my
personal M-14 in Basic. I still claim foul. Hey, I was Jr. NRA too, with lots of kid .22 outdoor time. He said he was given one day of training and the same day fired for record. Yep, Expert. Insufferable even yet. I think he deck guard pointed it at a dolphin once.
I like him, though he told me the reason the Coast Guard wouldn't take me back in '62 was that I was under 6' and could not wade to shore in Lake Michigan if the boat sank. They told me it was because I wore glasses. Lots of candidates, and not even a war on! Army was happy to see me so much they were following my educational career just a few years later.
Draft Volunteer, made and won a bad bet.
