When Bullets Fail

[Arik]

"Trooper Mark Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol. There was dashcam video of this incident. I saw it many years ago."

I pulled up the video and interview with the badguy and contrary to the "stories" the badguy took no "center mass" hits. He was hit in the buttocks, appendix, arm, shoulder and one that entered this shoulder and went down through his body but didn't sound from the interview that it went through his heart or lungs.

Also in watching the dashcam video the rounds did "stop" the badguy but he was able to get the one shot off during the confrontation.

The .22 bullet that killed the Trooper clipped the aorta, lost blood pressure and he went down about 15 seconds or so after he was hit...

I've talked to about ten officers I've worked with who center punched people with a .357 Magnum...no one needed second round.

Bob

Guess you didn't talk to this one

Officer Lim was followed by a gangbanger wanting to steal her car.  When she pulled into her driveway and exited the car, he shoved a .357 Magnum at her from about five feet away and pulled the trigger.  He didn’t miss.  In Officer Lim’s own words, the .357 bullet hit her “just left center of my chest, it went through my chest and out my back, nicked my diaphragm, my liver, my intestine, shattered my spleen, put a hole in the base of my heart, and left a tennis-ball-sized hole in my back as it exited.  It knocked me back into my car door.”

Shes still alive and killed her attacker.

Or this one

WLBT

I'm sure if I spend another few minutes I'd find more


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[patrickd]

The idea of a "one shot stop" round is like a unicorn. It does not exist. After extensive research, the FBI concluded that the concept of a "one shot stop" is a myth, UNLESS that one shot is to the cranium or upper spinal cord. And in that case, almost any round, even a .22, will do the job.

As I have posted before, start at page 7:

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

Other than a brain or heart shot I will bet you the meanest, toughest doped up maniac will be out of the fight with a well placed shot to the pelvis. You break that and you no longer have legs. On top of that the femoral arterys are located there

 

[ContinentalOp]

I think the gun/ammo aspect is just one part of the puzzle. As has been said, mindset, tactics, awareness, skill, etc., are all important. I practice getting quick, accurate hits on target, but that doesn't mean I ignore the effectiveness of my ammo choices. I choose effective ammo, knowing there's no guarantee they'll work. But, presuming I get good hits on target, those rounds will be more likely to stop an attacker than less effective ammo.

Of course, I do what I can to avoid being in such a scenario in the first place.

I also have contingency responses in case Plan A doesn't work.

One could say that self defense is all about balancing different probabilities. I prefer to hedge my bets whenever possible.

 

[SuperMan]

Guess you didn't talk to this one

Officer Lim was followed by a gangbanger wanting to steal her car.  When she pulled into her driveway and exited the car, he shoved a .357 Magnum at her from about five feet away and pulled the trigger.  He didn’t miss.  In Officer Lim’s own words, the .357 bullet hit her “just left center of my chest, it went through my chest and out my back, nicked my diaphragm, my liver, my intestine, shattered my spleen, put a hole in the base of my heart, and left a tennis-ball-sized hole in my back as it exited.  It knocked me back into my car door.”

Shes still alive and killed her attacker.

Or this one

WLBT

I'm sure if I spend another few minutes I'd find more


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

...couldn't talk to him...she killed him...and yes I remember that case very well and have read about other .357 failures to stop.

But as indicated above take all failures to stop with a grain of salt until you see the whole report.... As posted above one would be lead to believe the office had run into zombie...when in reality the bullets did just what they would be expected to do under the shooting angles involved...

Bob

 

[Naphtali]

I refer you to:

Berg, Ralph, Jr., M.D., "The Shot That Anchors," Rifle Magazine, July-August, 1975. Wolf Publishing, pages 30-31, 61.

Dr. Berg discusses and analyzes "rear-end" shot on game with emphasis on its effectiveness on dangerous game. His rear-end shot is the pelvis and immediately surrounding cardiovascular and nervous system.

Parenthetically, I think I remember that 30 Mauser and 9x19 mm metal case bullets' effectiveness during the Thompson-La Garde Report of 1904 was noted because their impact on major bone structures created secondary missiles - bone fragments - that larger, slower bullets did not.

Other than a brain or heart shot I will bet you the meanest, toughest doped up maniac will be out of the fight with a well placed shot to the pelvis. You break that and you no longer have legs. On top of that the femoral arterys are located there

 

[ContinentalOp]

Other than a brain or heart shot I will bet you the meanest, toughest doped up maniac will be out of the fight with a well placed shot to the pelvis. You break that and you no longer have legs. On top of that the femoral arterys are located there

The only problem with that is immobilization of the attacker's legs with a pelvic shot doesn't prevent him from firing a gun. While it can be an effective target, the context of the situation is important.

I knew a paramedic who told me an interesting story. He said he responded to a call where a guy on PCP was hit by a car while walking. The impact broke his femur. The only thing on the guy's mind was that he couldn't figure out why he couldn't get up and walk away. He had no clue his leg was broken. If such a person were attacking me with a gun, I wouldn't count on a pelvic shot keeping him from shooting at me. If he were attacking me with an impact weapon or knife and his pelvis was the only/best target available, then it could work. Context is important.