Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!

[Cervantes2010]

I still think S&W should have offered the Shield with a choice of external safety or not; like on the other M&P pistols. If they had, I would have picked one up w/o the external safety. Unless they do, I know quite a few shooters who are shying away. It's just one more thing that could malfunction at the wrong time.

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[SMMAssociates]

It would appear that the thumb safety can be disabled/removed, although not as easily as on the other M&P series semi's currently available....

If you can't get a model without one (anybody's guess what S&W has planned), and can't deal with "just leave it off", you probably can remove it.

However, there may be civil consequences to removing manufacturer-supplied safety devices should you use the thing, and somebody notice.... Mas Ayoob's a little paranoid about such things, but if you're an LEO, "deep pockets" - whether an "agency" or even an individual, could cause problems. Much better, IMHO, sharing his paranoia, to just leave the thing switched off....

The original 1911, btw, has a very tiny thumb safety lever. Nobody's going to carry one of those in Condition One with the safety off, and while a lot of aftermarket safeties came available (I don't know when), the originals are still in service.

(Unless you are stuck with an "agency" or local rule that demands an empty chamber, in which case the safety should be off, you are, IMHO, out of your mind to do that. It's not impossible to chamber a round eventually, but it's also not likely that you can do it before the danger has passed.)

Carrying a semi with an empty chamber, often called "Israeli Carry", seems to be based on passing out guns to anybody who asked, with the feeling that it was simply safer to teach people to turn all that stuff off, and to chamber a round if needed. The concept of "better than nothing" and "everybody's got a gun" seems to drive this when the source of the weapons is nearly random. I would, I think, learn how to deal with Condition One (and practice) real fast.

If you check out Tueller's work (21'), it's based on an openly carried weapon that's ready to go. Tueller was an optimist anyway - it seems that drawing from concealment needs more like 60', and dealing with chambering a round, even more.

Hopefully S&W will offer the Shield without the thumb safety if people want it that way. I wouldn't mind buying one that doesn't have it, and then add one. If I then decided that I didn't want it, I could take it back off again.

Regards,

 

[blkpitbull]

but the point is that a STRIKER FIRED weapon will only fire if the trigger, that thing within the trigger guard

First, you mean to tell me and the rest of the gun owners, young and old, on this forum that the thing inside the trigger guard is the trigger? And to think I thought it was just for looks. No wonder I can't get my gun to shoot..
Second, you don't think there could be something in someone's pocket that could press the, what u call it, oh yeah trigger accidentally? Someone could slip the gun into their pocket and forget there was a tube of chapstick in there. Or a woman's purse!!! Holy sh*t, that's a accidental discharge waiting to happen. And from what I've read the shield is catered for ladies and their purses.....IMO this gun has exactly what it needs, a safety for people who want it and need it in a pocket or purse, and a safety! For people who holster it and can chose one way or the other, and it not be in the way if chosen not to use it.....

 

[DavidC77]

I don't like the safety on it for the fact that I am a leftie.

If you are going to put a safety on a gun it should be an ambi safety so everyone can use the gun.

That being said if I were to buy one I would remove the wrong sided safety.

I may not buy one because I would have to put more into the gun to make it right for me than it would cost for the gun.

Yes us in MASS are going to get the Sucky 10 Lb trigger, so I would have to do a trigger job and by the time I get done running back and forth to my Gun Smith the cost of repair and gas would be more than the gun.

Plus the gun will not be availabe to us in MASS till at least June ( as told to me by S&W).

So I may not buy one because of that and because the safety is on the wrong side. Plus I would want it in the 40, I haven't shot the 40 yet, but I'm kind of thinking that the 40 is going to be to much for this gun.

 

[The Viking]

One reason is that the military requires it. So if you want to compete in military trials you have to have it.
A lot of 1911 fans like the thumb safety; and want their other pistols to be like the 1911. Personally, I like an exposed hammer like the HK has. I do not like having to place my thumb on top of a thumb safety ( a requirement in all tactical courses). It is uncomfortable for me. So I like the striker fired pistols without the thumb safety.

 

[681ismyfavorite]

a thumb safety on a DAO pistol as one poster put it, is intended for a ladies purse or a guy who carries chapstick. in other words non gun handling people. in fact i heard that S&W is going to start putting a thumb safety on on their 642s because of all the tampons and chapstick tubes getting stuck in the trigger guards.

 

[hogrider05]

I carry my 45c always and always chambered. The only safety for my gun is located between my ears.

If you carry a gun in your pocket, the only thing in pocket should be a gun.

 

[scattershot]

"The M&Ps sold in NY and CA (and a couple others) do NOT have the thumb safety because of a state requirement that I'm sorry I do not remember. "

That may be because of the requirement for a lock on the pistol. If the weapon has a thumb safety, there's no room for a lock mechanism.

 

[SMMAssociates]

"The M&Ps sold in NY and CA (and a couple others) do NOT have the thumb safety because of a state requirement that I'm sorry I do not remember. "

That may be because of the requirement for a lock on the pistol. If the weapon has a thumb safety, there's no room for a lock mechanism.

scattershot:

+1....

The Hilary Lock eats the space needed for some of the parts required for the thumb safety on the sear block.... While it's easy enough to remove the Hilary Lock, you can't put the thumb safety parts on that sear block....

At least on the existing M&P designs. Dunno about the Shield, but it sure looks like it. (I still haven't had a chance to play with one.)

I expect we will have a "no thumb safety" version, and one with a Hilary Lock soon enough. Can't say about the Mass-compatible trigger thing, but that's been easy to defeat in the older versions.

The .40 Shield is going to be a handful, but, IMHO, if they got the trigger right, probably tolerable. The M&P40C is only slightly more snappy than it's full sized brother, and I have the feeling that the shorter barrel will reduce recoil a smidge. I would try it, at least. No budget right now, but I think I'd buy the .40 if the wife wasn't looking .

Regards,

 

[Deezil]

All I have to say is this
Thank God for Baskin-Robbins lots of flavors to choose from, so everyone gets what they want.
I would imagine that in the future S&W will probobly offer a version without it, but who knows. There are brands out there without them, so buy those.

The Thumb Safety isnt for everyone, but I have been shooting Glock for a LONG time, I have no issue with my Shield and its thumb safety.

I think some are offended that they arent given the option, I personally love this little gun, could care less about the thumb safety.
JMHO

 

[slappy27]

I will be buying the Shield and will not use the manual safety. It would be really nice if Smith and Wesson would eventually make a Shield in .45 ACP say 5 + 1 in the flush magazine. I would buy it in a second but I wouldn't buy the XDS due the grip safety.

 

[VN Vet]

I own two M&Ps. One has the thumb safety that I use and the other has no thumb safety that I can use. If I had one I would sure use it. I am an older fart also who grew up on the 1911 with one in the chamber and carried cocked & locked. I will likely add the thumb safety to my M&P without one.

Training sucks. It makes you develop habits that can be hard to break.

Vv

 

[Stu Honea]

MichiganScott makes a good point about gaining points in some states because the safety is present.LAWYERS-another good point....but here's my take on it also.
Mark my words,without a doubt there will be someone out there with pockets large enough to pocket carry it,and there are more than you might think,who will drop it into a pocket with keys,pens, change,marbles,or whatever you can imagine that will get lodged in the trigger guard and will pull even the Shield trigger.
So I suppose they are protecting themselves from a suit for an inadvertant discharge,even though it was the idiot carrier's own fault. Happened before,and will happen again.
I'm pretty much an RKBA fanatic,but if I admit it to myself,there really are some people out there who have no business with a firearm.
I wouldn't normally use that safety and might not ever use it,but as I've said before,I think it's so low profile that it's really not a concern on this pistol. It's there if you want it,but I don't believe accidentally engaging it is that probable due to the design.At least it was well thought out.Just my own opinion and observations.I am speaking particularly of the Shield here,but on the others there is at least the option of buying one without the safety.

 

[SMMAssociates]

(I really need to at least get my hands on a Shield....)

The thumb safety on the older M&P's is very easy to engage or disengage. There are mods to change that, but it's probably best to train for switching it on and off if present. I sure wouldn't trust it in a pocket. Best would be a proper holster. I still can't remember whether the one I'm using for the M&P's was purchased for them, or for an XD9SC, but it works & fits just fine. (Leather - YMMV with Kydex.)

It looks like the Shield's thumb safety could be trusted to stay wherever you put it, but I'm a teensy bit uncertain about that.

(I found that the nominal value of the grip safety on the XD9SC was a joke.... When holstering, I tended to depress the grip safety.... Depressing? FWIW, I liked that gun. Just liked the M&P more....)

Regards,

 

[mlhumphrey]

Because that's what a lot of (gun-dumb) customers want!!!

You call us "gun dumb", but you are the one walking around with a loaded gun, fully cocked, one in the tube, NO MANUEL SAFETY, and one mistake away from shooting yourself, a family member, or someone else, and you call us dumb??????????

 

[kozmic]

....I don't "fidget" or have adult A D D but I do like to carry in the small of the back and so when I do, a more positive safety is something that makes me feel a bit more secure (knowing where my gun is pointed when holstered).
Also, after a lengthy conversation with my wife in choosing her ccw, I just couldn't argue the point she made that "what's the harm having a frame safety and just not using it if you don't want to". In her case she uses them always. If a safety wasn't on her rig, she would not carry a round in the chamber. In my opinion, I'd rather she flip the safety rather than rack the slide.

 

[jay1975]

While deployed in Iraq, I saw several times where Joe's hand would grab the grip of the rifle, finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger after initially taking fire. If not for the manual safety, there would have been many more ND's. Some of these Joe's were seasoned and well trained, but the fact remains that until it really comes down to the wire, you don't know how you will react. I have not seen any amount of training that can truly prepare you for a real life or death situation. So to insult someone who wants a safety is just ignorant and usually spoken by those who never had to face a true SYP situation.

 

[tacreload]

I guess if you are Joe Q. Crime Fighter who faces danger at every turn and are constantly involved in gun battles then yeah I guess a safety would be a major inconvenience.But for the general gun carrying public I really don't understand why so many are against it.If you're totally cognizant of everything 100% of the time with no distractions and never been known to have a lapse of memory and you are totally in control of every waking second of every single day,well you know.Anyhow all I can say is that if I hear "The gun went off"one more time on the news I think I'm gonna throw up.Wonder if those guns had safeties.

 

[Enzo]

Not an issue here in Massachusetts since none of the M&P's with thumb safeties are on the state approved firearm list.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I ordered my 9 with thumb safety. I had a 3913 with safety/decocker and got used to it. I don't know what the fuss is about, if you want one get one, if not, order it without. Calling some one gun dumb or inferring one camp is better than the other is time misspent. Let's discuss something that really benefits all of us. Like this. If S&W deemed it good to put a thumb safety on the M&P's, why didn't they make it a little harder to work. Mine seems way too easy to accidentally take the safety off.