Why NOT to Carry a .38 Snub

[hkcavalier]

It's not the limitations of the actual revolver, but the limitations of the revolver user, that's probably going to make the most difference.

Yes, many folks find it more difficult to shoot a revolver, let alone a diminutive J-frame, compared to some of the modern pistols available. Fine. That's a shooter's choice, based upon a shooter's realization of his/her own skill limitations.

This is the difference between mechanical and practical accuracy. The snubnose has a surprisingly good mechanical accuracy and a low practical accuracy, while, say, an open-bolt machinegun on a bipod is the opposite.

Very few people can outshoot their pistol under stress (at normal ranges), so the discussion tends to go toward that long DA pull, capacity, and the reload of a revolver.

 

[BigDogBoogie]

I pretty much stopped reading anything "gun writers" cranked out after Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan retired but I suspect this kid will write anything that will get his article more clicks to boost his pay grade.

I carry a Colt Commander almost every day, When I can't carry JMB's finest I carry a Smith 638 loaded with Buffalo Bore standard pressure LHPSWC ammo with a couple of Speed Strips. I practice with it and I'm confident in my ability to use it and in the .38 specials ability to defend me if needed.

I've got the little Smith on me right now and I don't feel undergunned in the slightest.

 

[Buick]

Whats not to like about snubbie sights? They are about as foolproof as they come. Dont really agree with the snub being an experts only gun either. Put granma cross the room with a couple of cylinders of wadcutters and watch her fill a cereal box with all of em. Slip the high velocity stuff in and give the pistol back to her and tell her take no prisoners.

 

[rockquarry]

I pretty much stopped reading anything "gun writers" cranked out after Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan retired but I suspect this kid will write anything that will get his article more clicks to boost his pay grade.

I carry a Colt Commander almost every day, When I can't carry JMB's finest I carry a Smith 638 loaded with Buffalo Bore standard pressure LHPSWC ammo with a couple of Speed Strips. I practice with it and I'm confident in my ability to use it and in the .38 specials ability to defend me if needed.

I've got the little Smith on me right and I don't feel undergunned in the slightest.

I'm not a big fan of YouTube and I'm unfamiliar with this kid. I don't know if he writes for himself or some Internet magazine. Regardless, a lot of guys that write Internet stuff are paid nothing, but they need no experience or credentials. That's seldom the case in the paper publishing business, despite what many of us may think of that media.

 

[HardToHandle]

As a writer, I can appreciate what he did --- you all read the article and are discussing it.

Sometimes writers play the heel to do this very thing.

But I'll continue to carry a Glock 26 (or 34) when I can and a 442PC when I can't. For the wilderness I'm all S&W: 686+ or 629 most of the time, but that's not really the focus of the article.

Total agreement with your assessment. I find the juice to be much higher per squeeze with a slightly less concealable Glock 26 than a 442. However, concealment sometimes becomes a greater concern than sheer shoot-ability of the Glock, it is a J Frame. The beauty is we can make those trade offs.

 

[grcoffman104]

In my 33 years, I was hit with a 22, and a 38.
Both hurt. Any body knocks any rounds, needs to ponder taking said round by the pointy end.

Food for thought.

 

[Gene L]

Whats not to like about snubbie sights? They are about as foolproof as they come. Dont really agree with the snub being an experts only gun either. Put granma cross the room with a couple of cylinders of wadcutters and watch her fill a cereal box with all of em. Slip the high velocity stuff in and give the pistol back to her and tell her take no prisoners.

I agree a J-frame is for an experienced shooter. Some grannies don't have the hand strength to pull a DA trigger, or to deal with recoil, even with wadcutters. I think it would be an awful trick to change ammo on grannie. I think you should practice with the ammo you carry. There are a lot less recoiling guns/rounds than .38 wadcutters. I'd rather my grannie have a .22 she can shoot rather than a .38 she can't.

 

[BigBoku]

During my 27 years with the NYPD I have been blessed to know, train with and learn from some of the best real world experienced combat revolver shooters.

Two of which are Jim Cirillo and Bill Allard (may they both rest in peace).

When I look back at the time I spent with them and what they both imparted on me I know I was lucky to have that opportunity.

What I can say about Mr. Grant and his opinion editorial is that it establishes he has ZERO real life experience, is not willing to work at trying or is simply not able to become proficient and he has the all too typical "it can't be my fault" attitude.

Long story short #SPAM

 

[Fastbolt]

This is the difference between mechanical and practical accuracy. The snubnose has a surprisingly good mechanical accuracy and a low practical accuracy, while, say, an open-bolt machinegun on a bipod is the opposite.

Very few people can outshoot their pistol under stress (at normal ranges), so the discussion tends to go toward that long DA pull, capacity, and the reload of a revolver.

This is why I always recommend that someone thinking about either returning to a snub (after some years away from using one), or trying a snub for the first time, invest some time, money and effort into figuring out the risk/benefit of using them for other than range/leisure plinking.

First time revolver shooters are probably better off starting (and staying?) with a medium-frame 6-shot .38SPL, whether 2"-4".

Even experienced revolver shooters still need to make sure they can acclimate their skills to meet the higher demands of the diminutive 5-shot snubs, whether using the 20oz all-steel models, but particularly if thinking about the light Airweights and even lighter Sc/Ti models.

I've watched my fair share of folks (cops and private shooters alike) on a qual range who simply could not run a snub revolver controllably, quickly and especially accurately enough to make it a practical choice for a dedicated defensive weapon.

Then, there's the folks who can't seem to help but think they need (and will have time) to thumb-cock a traditional revolver into single action ... at 3yds ... for each shot.

Reloading? When it reaches the point that you're likely going to need a minute hand on your watch to measure your technique, you're probably on the way to pushing it to make reloading a moot point.

Sometimes "handy" & "practical" may turn out to be a lot farther apart than someone might assume. TANSTAAFL.

Now, in light of this thread topic, I've got to serve as chauffeur for my wife to go and help her pastor and another person set up and run an online service tonight. Considering I'll have to wait outside in the SUV in the parking lot, and the early hot temperatures we're seeing, I won't be belting on and covering up one of my 9's, .40's or .45's. Instead, I'll be pocket-holstering one of my .357MAG J-frames ... and reading my Kindle. Handy and practical ... for me.

 

[lkabug]

Exactly why popcorn was invented.

 

[Fastbolt]

I pretty much stopped reading anything "gun writers" cranked out after Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan retired but I suspect this kid will write anything that will get his article more clicks to boost his pay grade.

I carry a Colt Commander almost every day, When I can't carry JMB's finest I carry a Smith 638 loaded with Buffalo Bore standard pressure LHPSWC ammo with a couple of Speed Strips. I practice with it and I'm confident in my ability to use it and in the .38 specials ability to defend me if needed.

I've got the little Smith on me right and I don't feel undergunned in the slightest.

I'll still check out trainers who are also writers, or trainers who are trying to become writers, but that's a lingering habit from my own instructor time.

Not all instructors ever need to become writers (or may wish to), but some are forced into it if they have to learn to write effective lesson plans. Especially if they realize that their professional writing may have to be examined, explained and justified in court at some point down the line.

I've been asked by one respected and prominent trainer/writer why I'm NOT writing for publication at this point, and my only answer was ... laziness? Up until now I've only had to write for official reports/court and professional training purposes (in-house for my agency, and then for a state level committee that provided training to outside agencies).

Besides, I rather thought the gun/tactics training market was pretty well saturated by writers, with more appearing all the time. So, now I merely offer some thoughts in both public and private forums.My opinions are worth the cost, which is nothing.

 

[eb07]

During my 27 years with the NYPD I have been blessed to know, train with and learn from some of the best real world experienced combat revolver shooters.

Two of which are Jim Cirillo and Bill Allard (may they both rest in peace).

When I look back at the time I spent with them and what they both imparted on me I know I was lucky to have that opportunity.

What I can say about Mr. Grant and his opinion editorial is that it establishes he has ZERO real life experience, is not willing to work at trying or is simply not able to become proficient and he has the all too typical "it can't be my fault" attitude.

Long story short #SPAM

It is safe to say I am extremely jealous of the opportunity for that first hand wisdom. I hope you are paying it forward.

 

[JH1951]

Nothing new here, simply a rehash on a popular topic: Snubs are too limited on capacity, and the .38 Spl. is under-powered. He starts by saying NEVER to use a .38 Spl snub, then ends with "..... a .38 snub nose is a dangerously effective tool when employed correctly." So, what's the point?
For those of us not out looking for a fight or expecting to hold off the Red Army, I find my 649 quite a comfort to carry. It is for self-defense in a sticky close-quarter situation. Really, it's quite adequate, and with practice and a good proficiency, a .38 Spl. snub is an extraordinarily deadly weapon.
If you are carrying for something other than self-defense in a sticky close-quarter situation, it may not be suitable.

 

[Kanewpadle]

It's easier to teach someone to shoot a J frame than a semi auto.

At self defense distance a J frame is plenty. Try telling a few generations of folks that it isn't.

 

[Charliee]

While the 38 special is not the most powerful round it is still very deadly. Just ask Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

[pistolpete10]

At bare minimum you need to carry an M16 converted to belt feed with at least 200 of ammo....
Actually, I carry a 642 and no reload.

 

[6string]

Well, I don't want to just brush the kid off...but, I will.
Like a lot of us, I've been shooting revolvers since before his parents were probably out of high school. Muscle memory has a huge part of how well anyone can manage any actions governed by physical dexterity. Reloads, trigger control, etc are learned skills.

Accuracy? Ha! A good snubbie is effective out to at least 50 yds, especially if it has SA-DA capability.

The kid is part of a generation that has been overindulged in regard to the "value" of their opinions than any previous generation. It's a major problem with our education system. They get to express their opinions (usually uninformed at best) and have that count in leau of facts.

Besides, doesn't this kid know how many KAOS agents Maxwell Smart Secret Agent 86 shot with his various S&W snubbies?

 

[ContinentalOp]

Besides, doesn't this kid know how many KAOS agents Maxwell Smart Secret Agent 86 shot with his various S&W snubbies?

To be fair, he probably hit them by accident or was "helped" by 99.

 

[JH1951]

Well, I don't want to just brush the kid off...but, I will..........
..........
Besides, doesn't this kid know how many KAOS agents Maxwell Smart Secret Agent 86 shot with his various S&W snubbies?

I agree with the brush-off. As a matter of fact I somehow felt he was brushing me off with the all too common attitude of today.
As for Maxwell, he was good, but I much more enjoyed Agent 99.
And as Max one time said to 99.... "You make three 33's, 99."

 

[merl67]

The only point I would agree with in the article is that J frames in general are harder to shoot well than their larger counterparts. The rest of his article is based on assumptions, and perhaps his own shortcomings. I will say this if you are only going to practice a few times a year no hand gun will likely be adequate. I have a backyard range set up with markers from 10 yards to 50 in 10 yard increments. I try to at least shoot 50 rounds a week through something. It may only be a lowly K22 I shoot a golf balls makes it more interesting for me, and won't have to guess if I hit it or not. This also causes the target to move, and when it does I'm tracking it to shoot again when it lands. I have carried both a Model 36, and a Ruger LCP for years now. I practice regularly with both. I am 5'6" and 150lbs so carrying a larger gun concealed is a problem for me. The 38spl has been around since 1899, and shows no sign of going anywhere. I just bet the J frame sized guns have piled up a pretty tall body count. There is a certain guy named Jerry I just bet could shoot a model 36 faster than you could see. Training is the key no matter what you choose to carry, if its a lowly 22 then practice until you can shoot the eyes out of the silhouette target. Ok that's my 2 cents worth.