LGS won't show take down on a gun?

[Saudade]

If you allow customers to take down guns then they will occupy much time at the counter doing that. I don't want to follow behind one of these guys and purchase something they had been fooling with....

At the local shops I've been to, there is no problem taking as much time as needed. I've waited over an hour for my turn, but then can take my time. The shops want the customer to be satisfied with the experience, regardless if you purchase that day. Having said that, you can't please everyone.

They may not allow take down and dry fires (OK, the shops near me typically allow racking and dry fires), but they will also bring out multiple guns to allow you to compare (assuming they have it). That includes long guns.

I do most of my browsing online. I read some reviews, watch a few vids, then narrow down what I want. Then the hunt begins to find someone nearby with stock. While shipping may be free, we pay tax and transfer fees here in CA. Extra fees apply if it's not on the Roster of Guns Not Unsafe (until 1/1/2015). So by they time you get done, that great deal you found on GunBroker vanishes. Ten round mag limits can also complicate online deals here.

In the end, market forces reign supreme. Don't like the policy, shop somewhere else. Just realize while you may think "screw them, I'll take my business elsewhere", they may think, "thank God that jerk left".

 

[JAREDSHS]

My local gun store is a small shop, we are a rather remote county (read that as small town-small time). The owner is a considerate, concienteous person. He is fair and honest in his business transaction. When he takes a weapon out to let you handle it-he always opens the cylinder on a revolver and retracts the slide on a semi auto pistol. If it is a long gun, it is opened up in a similar fashion, before it is handed to you. If the weapon can be damaged by dry firing,it will have a tag on it saying do not to do that. I can buy a new gun in this store with complete confidence that it has never been fooled with since it left the factory. I would never ---out of respect to the shop and to the next customer who might be considering a particular weapon ask for the piece to be field stripped.

 

[Trons]

You probably won't like this answer, but here goes...it may.

If the gun can be field stripped without leaving a mark, the gun is still new. However, put a scratch on it and the gun moves to the used category. That's how I see it.

There may be some confusion here. I'm not looking for an answer I like. I'm relatively new to guns, making my first purchase just shy of 6 months ago.

It may have been unreasonable for me to ask. I wasn't concerned, so much, with what was actually in side, I just happened to be curious as to the take down and was passing on my way to meet my wife for lunch and thought I'd ask.

 

[hangnoose]

NO!

Gotta side with the LGS here. I realize every situation is different, but I can think of many more reasons not to, than to do the field strip: not ALL guns are easily stripped (tools required?), not every clerk knows how to strip every gun in the shop, time spent doing it in a busier store, the risk of a scratch or dropped/lost spring or part, is the buyer a lookie Lou that won't know what he is looking at & then buy online or a multiple repeat buying customer?, What's next? RU gonna ask me to take the side plate off a revolver? The Sig 226 I bought OTC the clerk stripped it w/o being asked. It kinda all depends, but bottom line it's up to the LGS, it may be policy, & certainly not worth getting upset over. After having tables at gun shows & every other person wants you to remove the zip tie, that is there to specifically stop people from dry firing, (which may indeed harm certain guns) I can certainly understand a LGS NOT wanting to do it.

 

[eyegots2no]

So...

When you look at the insides, what is that gonna do for you??? What are you gonna learn? What do you know about the insides? Come on!!

Are you gonna say---"Look...it has defects...."! No---you would not be able to tell.

Or, "Hey---those engineers are stupid!" No, you would not know the difference

Do you ask for a the head to be taken off a car engine B4 purchase? They would laugh at you if you did and ask you to see a shrink.

What really can YOU learn or do from looking at the insides?

If you want it---and you just fell that field stripping is BEYOND your ability to read and understand disassembly instructions,

then buy it!

Then ask IF they have TIME to guide you in disassembly----IF they have time---and IF you are NOT gonna ask for a refund if it gets scratched.

Ever see a person open a package of any merchandise in any store because they want to inspect it----then they sit the now unpackaged item down and grab an unopened item to take to the cash register for purchase?

Do you know how hard it is to ever sell the "opened" merchandise?

This is not a customer service issue------this is over-analness and unreasonableness of a "potential" customer, and the reality of running a business.

BTW, I once opened k-22 at a gun show (because I was in long taught
safety ---check and see if it loaded mode) then closed it turning the cylinder.

I got quite a chewing. I started to think he was a real jerk----then I realized I was the jerk.

Luckily, along with the chewing---the dealer saw fit to educate me on how to close the cylinder in such a way not allowing the locking lug to mar the cylinder (as it did not have hardly any until THIS idiot strolled up).

We all learn something everyday.

I still cringe at what i did---and feel worse that he earned nothing from me that day (I did not have the money to purchase the gun in the first place), and he has a once pristine K-22 now with a ring on the cylinder.

I, on the other hand, learned a valuable lesson.

It was a skewed exchange.

People in business get the short end way too often.

 

[Trons]

Well, Eyegots, interesting perspective. I may have mentioned that I'm kind of new to this, which is why I started this thread, to find out if I was being unreasonable or if the LGS was. I will say that it does sound like it may have been an unreasonable request, however, everybody that supports that also says things like "It might scratch it" Or "It might be a tough take down." or even "This is not a customer service issue------this is over-analness and unreasonableness of a "potential" customer, and the reality of running a business." is not taking into account that I was specifically asking about an M&P, that he had already taken out of the case and racked the slide. To me, that puts about as much wear and tear on the gun as field stripping it.

I didn't want to look at the insides, I wanted to see if it was like my M&P .22 or my Shield.

I will also say that I used to own my own business and was an owner/operator and the single employee most of the time. I charged a bit more then my competition, but routinely had customers tell me that they were recommended by the competition. I built the company up on reputation and providing excellent customer service. I rarely advertised and relied on word of mouth.

Now, I also noticed, Eyegots, that you still, in your very informative post, whether you think field stripping a fire arm, specifically a M&P .22c would make it be considered used, to a future purchaser.

 

[highaltitude]

I'm with the LGS on this one. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be buying a gun that has been stripped and dry fired hundreds of times from people that should be doing a little research on their own. My guess is the 90% of the people wanting to break down the gun have no interest in buying it, anyway. Once a person decides to buy it, absolutely they should go through the entire process if the customer requests it. Seriously, with the internet, youtube and the millions of videos out there on every type of gun imaginable.. it's not difficult. Finally, I would venture to say that many of the videos are more informative and accurate (Hickok45 comes to mind) than what you will find at the LGS.

 

[eyegots2no]

I feel like the original question of whether it now becomes a used gun has been answered---just maybe not directly.

No, it does NOT make it a used gun------per se.

But, as suggested----"excessive field stripping", "scratches", etc.--- it just may not be as attractive to a potential buyer and appear used, and so then---for practical purposes, i.e. selling ---it is.

Perhaps the LGS owner could have been less curt and had more of a helpful attitude and explanation for his position (just like I could have chosen different words).

"reputation and providing excellent customer service" is top drawer in my few and those practicing that do much more for themselves and our world.

I sincerely hope I did not come across abrasive or insulting---please do not read that into it.

This is a great forum!!!!

 

[Rastoff]

There may be some confusion here. I'm not looking for an answer I like. I'm relatively new to guns, making my first purchase just shy of 6 months ago.

What I was getting at by "you might not like it" is that the answer to your question is not clear cut. As you've seen in this thread there are many different views on what is reasonable handling. That's why the answer is, maybe.

What one sees as unreasonable another sees as normal behavior. This is the world we live in.

It may have been unreasonable for me to ask.

Not at all. It's never unreasonable to ask. The worst that can happen is they say no. If you never ask, the answer is a guaranteed no. Just asking is how we find out.

BTW, I once opened k-22 at a gun show (because I was in long taught
safety ---check and see if it loaded mode) then closed it turning the cylinder.

I got quite a chewing. I started to think he was a real jerk----then I realized I was the jerk.

You were not a jerk and your action was reasonable. Opening the cylinder of a revolver to check its condition is only the right thing to do. If the vendor didn't want you to open the cylinder, he shouldn't have allowed you to handle the gun at all.

Checking the condition of a gun by opening the cylinder or operating the slide is normal. In no way will it reduce the value of the gun.

 

[coltle6920]

I don't blame the owner or not wanting to break down the firearm if you were just browsing.Your question could just as easily been answered by looking at videos on YouTube.

I do all of my research ahead of time so that when I go to my LGS it's with full intention to buy.I own a couple of guns that I was unfamiliar with when I bought them.They were used so there wasn't any booklet to reference.The guys at the store were more than happy to show me how to field strip the firearm while my paperwork was being processed.

 

[A.O.]

Seems like WAY too much stock taken with utube these days!!

Just sayin..

 

[OldCat]

This thread is very interesting. Until now I never even thought of taking down a NIB gun in the store before buying it. That was true since 1970 until now. Recently I bought a couple new guns and each time the LGS took it down for me to show me how easy it is compared to the old 1911 days. Not that it swayed me in my buying decision but was nice to see to compare one plastic gun to another.

Ultimately I ended up buying a Glock 19 and a S&W M&P Shield both in 9mm. Now I'm eye-balling the new M&P 22 Compact which takes down completely different than the Shield.

If I was buying a used gun I would insist on taking it down in the shop before considering buying it.

 

[mark32812]

The man in the original post state that he already had a full size M&P-22 and wanted to know how the new M&P 22c breaks down. Would they be just about the same? Many LGS will show you how to break a firearm down after you buy it.

 

[hoc9sw]

Mark,

But the OP had not yet purchased the compact. That was the whole context.

 

[A.O.]

And with out the proper help from the vender he did not buy it there... good for him!

 

[turbo38gn]

And with out the proper help from the vender he did not buy it there... good for him!

He wasn't going to buy it anyways.... good for the vendor.. but I would add, the vendor shouldn't be a jerk about it. I will also add, I don't believe in condemning someone who didn't have a chance to share his side of the story... it's why I tend to support S&W CS

 

[sherrill15]

I wouldn't take the time to take it down either but it sounds like someone who was either lazy or didn't know how to do it and was too afraid to admit it. Taking a gun down, doesn't make it used. That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard. If you don't want to do it, simply tell them so.

 

[sherrill15]

What I was getting at by "you might not like it" is that the answer to your question is not clear cut. As you've seen in this thread there are many different views on what is reasonable handling. That's why the answer is, maybe.

What one sees as unreasonable another sees as normal behavior. This is the world we live in.

Not at all. It's never unreasonable to ask. The worst that can happen is they say no. If you never ask, the answer is a guaranteed no. Just asking is how we find out.

You were not a jerk and your action was reasonable. Opening the cylinder of a revolver to check its condition is only the right thing to do. If the vendor didn't want you to open the cylinder, he shouldn't have allowed you to handle the gun at all.

Checking the condition of a gun by opening the cylinder or operating the slide is normal. In no way will it reduce the value of the gun.

I can understand the closing the cylinder situation but it's up to the store employee to tell you this before doing so. Some tell me not to turn it, some don't, but I know how to close it without turning it too. Just be careful. Not everyone knows everything, warn them ahead of time.

 

[A.O.]

He wasn't going to buy it anyways....

And why do you say that?

This was the second time he went in there that day, this time with the sole intent of buying the gun..

 

[turbo38gn]

And why do you say that?

This was the second time he went in there that day, this time with the sole intent of buying the gun..

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I went to my LGS yesterday, specifically looking for a M&P .22c, because I'm thinking of trading my FS M&P .22 in for one, because it's closer in size to my shield. They had it, I liked it, but wasn't ready to buy that specific day, doing a little field research. I left, talked to the wife, decided I would go for it after we met for lunch. On the way to meet her, I wanted to stop by and see what the take down was on it.

There has been some great info here... but to take a side when you only hear one side.. don't cut it for me.. I've read enough here to not be comfy condemning anyone.