W231 - RIGHT FROM "THE HORSES MOUTH"

[chief38]

I got so tired of hearing stories on this and other Forums regarding W231 Powder that I decided to call Hodgedon Powder directly to find out if the rumors of W231 being discontinued are true or false.

According to one of their customer Service Technical Guys, W231 is NOT being discontinued, nor is HP-38 which is the same powder being manufactured with a different label. He told me he too has heard the rumors but as far as he and other employees know, there are no plans for discontinuing it.

 

[Rule3]

Thank you Thank you. I was going to call but figured they already had enough calls. I just bought 8 Lbs from Powder Valley so as in the other thread going, that should last me a the rest of my life.

 

[novalty]

I'll know when it's time to stop buying in bulk when my wife tells me to stop buying green bananas. Guess if I bought an 8# jugs of HP-38 it would be shortly after she saw the credit card statement.

 

[Rule3]

Bananas (from the store) last about a day down here. I do have banana trees (bushes) but they are the minis. Got a bunch growing right now!

 

[SMSgt]

Judging by the abundance of both powders on the shelves--it's been discontinued for a long time!

 

[Moe Mentum]

It just goes to show you, you can't believe everything on the web. Why would a company discontinue the most popular product they make, it makes no business sense at all. It would have been a huge loss for them.

 

[Collo Rosso]

He told me he too has heard the rumors but as far as he and other employees know, there are no plans for discontinuing it.

5 years ago my service manager told me the owner has no plans to sell and business is good. 2 weeks later the owner had a conference call to announce he sold...

 

[Rule3]

5 years ago my service manager told me the owner has no plans to sell and business is good. 2 weeks later the owner had a conference call to announce he sold...

True, you never know what will happen.

Even though HP38/Win231 is a very popular powder, the memo about the production of it (at St Marks in Florida, General Dynamics) May be true. It may very well be a old school process and harder to make, more pollutants etc etc. Hopefully if it, or any popular powder is discontinued they will have a new technology one that can take it's place.

 

[X Ring]

The thing is the only powders I have ever heard of been discontinued are the ones that don't sell well. Not the ones they can't make enough of. They could raise the price to cover any extra expense and it would still sell out quickly. Discontinuing it doesn't make any sense. The only thing I can think of is that General Dynamics doesn't care about the small profit made from powder sales and is concentrating on selling a new aircraft carrier.

 

[scooter123]

It just goes to show you, you can't believe everything on the web. Why would a company discontinue the most popular product they make, it makes no business sense at all. It would have been a huge loss for them.

Win 231/HP-38 is manufactured by General Dynamics in St. Marks, FL, NOT by Hodgdon. If General Dynamics decides they aren't going to make this powder anymore Hodgdon can only announce that it's been discontinued. Because a small distributor like Hodgdon has no say at all it what is manufactured at what is essentially a Government Powder Manufacturing facility.

As for the idea that some private company should start up a plant to make Smokeless Powder for the Reloading Market, that won't ever happen. Because the Government won't ever issue a license for a plant manufacturing Smokeless Powder for the Reloading Market. As for why, there is a stage in the manufacture of Nitro Cellulose when it's an EXTREMELY sensitive Contact Explosive. Look at it crosseyed or allow the humidity level in the facility get in to the Static Zone and you could be looking at a blast on the scale of the recent explosion in China.

BTW, I suspect that blast in China wasn't a "warehouse" going up, I suspect that it was a facility manufacturing or storing three potential Chemical Products. One is Ammonium Nitrate for fertilizer. Two is the manufacture of the base for Solid Rocket Motors. Three is Smokeless Powder for the manufacture of ammunition. Because in all 3 cases there is a notable history of facilities manufacturing and storing these compounds blowing up in a monumental blast.

 

[rwsmith]

This is a key point.....

Judging by the abundance of both powders on the shelves--it's been discontinued for a long time!

A lot of talk about powder is completely moot to me because if I never see it, it doesn't make one bit of difference what 'they' are going to do or what people say that 'they' are going to do. To me it's just fun to talk about in absence of the real thing. Poor substitute but that's the way it's been.

 

[venomballistics]

True, you never know what will happen.

Even though HP38/Win231 is a very popular powder, the memo about the production of it (at St Marks in Florida, General Dynamics) May be true. It may very well be a old school process and harder to make, more pollutants etc etc. Hopefully if it, or any popular powder is discontinued they will have a new technology one that can take it's place.

If it follows the old Olin method, it's probably one of the safest, cleanest processes in the powder industry.

 

[chief38]

Some good points here fellas....... All we can do is HOPE that the gentleman I spoke to ah Hodgedon Powder yesterday was correct. OK, that said, I guess my phone call was sort of a moot point - depending on what the manufacturing company feels like doing.

Still, I also spoke to Midsouth last week and even they say they are still getting shipments of W231 in from Hodgedon.

 

[dwpmusic]

I'd just like to know where to get some. It's almost not worth continuing to try. I'm down to my last 1lb.

 

[Rule3]

I'd just like to know where to get some. It's almost not worth continuing to try. I'm down to my last 1lb.

Powder Valley just had a whole lot of it. Bought 8lbs. Gotta keep looking and be quick.

Came to $21/lb with the haz mat fee.

Member Novalty has put a lot of time and effort into this thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/306341-daily-stock-reloading-notices.html

 

[dwpmusic]

Just looked after reading your previous post. "Out of Stock" Is the darn stuff that popular?

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[Rule3]

Just looked after reading your previous post. "Out of Stock" Is the darn stuff that popular?

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It was about a week ago. Mine is scheduled to be deliver tomorrow, It's popular and has not been around so when it comes in it goes fast, Kinda like 22lr at Wal Mart.

If you want powder you need to be prepared to buy in bulk online as the local places are not gonna have much.

So 8lbs will last me for the rest of my life as I have powder but the price even with haz mat is still cheaper than the stores and I only bought one 8 lb. You could offset that even more with more powder or primers. (not Midway though!)

 

[venomballistics]

Some good points here fellas....... All we can do is HOPE that the gentleman I spoke to ah Hodgedon Powder yesterday was correct. OK, that said, I guess my phone call was sort of a moot point - depending on what the manufacturing company feels like doing.

Still, I also spoke to Midsouth last week and even they say they are still getting shipments of W231 in from Hodgedon.

The Olin process was thus.
get a shipment of past date canon powder from the military.
put it into a vat of water and grind it to a slurry.
add some chemicals to neutralize any acids present from degradation.
pump the slurry to other vats where it will be stirred until it forms spheres, largely representing the finished powder.
add retardants to control its burn rate and stir until dry.

this process bypasses production of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin, and the hazards that come with it.

if this is still the process behind 231 and the rest of the Winchester/ Olin line, why change?
It was a model of safety and efficiency as well as being an immaculate contraption.

 

[Rule3]

Well the product is still available so can we just let the horse die??

It got closed on another forum,

It is up to General Dynamics. if it wasn't so darn far I would drive up there knock on the front gate and demand answers!

I think their waste stream is killing all the Oysters, that's my rumor.

 

[Black_Sheep]

W231/HP-38 is still impossible to find around these parts. A couple of guys in our shooting league suggested WST for .45 loads so I picked up a pound for working up some test loads. So far it seems to be a good alternative, I just wish it was suitable for .38 Special too.