It appears that there's a problem with the 15/22!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Three position course of fire, instructors need to be able to watch everyone on the line, and they don't get to build their own ranges. It would be nice but it's not economically feasible.

Concerning firearms, Safety should have no price! :eek:
Portable screen dividers made of plexiglass or perspex...what's that saying...."buy once, cry once"

Surely the 'management' would prefer to limit as much as possible, exposure to danger and injury. Saying it costs too much is really just a cop out and passing the buck of responsibility.
 
Concerning firearms, Safety should have no price! :eek:
Portable screen dividers made of plexiglass or perspex...what's that saying...."buy once, cry once"

Surely the 'management' would prefer to limit as much as possible, exposure to danger and injury. Saying it costs too much is really just a cop out and passing the buck of responsibility.

So, when shooting or hunting with friends or family, did you spare no expense and responsibly make a portable plexiglass screen to place between yourself and the other shooter or hunter?
 
Concerning firearms, Safety should have no price! :eek:
Portable screen dividers made of plexiglass or perspex...what's that saying...."buy once, cry once"

Surely the 'management' would prefer to limit as much as possible, exposure to danger and injury. Saying it costs too much is really just a cop out and passing the buck of responsibility.

They don't own the ranges. They can't modify them. I'm sensing you don't understand what Appleseed is. They have a very good safety record.
 
So, when shooting or hunting with friends or family, did you spare no expense and responsibly make a portable plexiglass screen to place between yourself and the other shooter or hunter?

Seriously?

No i didn't.....but then again I am not a national organisation which invites people of all ages and abilities to come to my events to shoot and pay for the privilege....If i did charge people to come and shoot with me then i would be fully responsible for their safety.
 
They don't own the ranges. They can't modify them. I'm sensing you don't understand what Appleseed is. They have a very good safety record.

How is bringing a portable, erect-able, safety screen modifying a range?
Correction.....they had a very good safety record! If they still had we would not be having this discussion.
 
Borrowing this from another forum.......

Lets put this puppy to rest....and wait for the 'Official' response from S&W. I am just annoyed that my rifle is away at the minute. After all this i am so eager to go 'kick some brass'

An advisory from the AOC:

I'm sure all of you have read the advisory we published last week, barring the use of M&P 15‑22 rifles at our shoots until Smith and Wesson (S&W) investigates safety concerns from our instructional staff.

Smith and Wesson has been very responsive to our concerns. We are currently working with S&W to evaluate each of the firearms involved and to determine the appropriate next steps. We appreciate their prompt attention to this matter and will keep you updated with additional information as it becomes available.

As part of their fact-finding process, S&W is eager to contact the owner of each affected rifle, and ascertain the rifle's serial number and issues. To report a problem with your 15‑22, or if you simply have a question about any S&W firearm, you should call the company’s customer service department at 1‑800‑331‑0852.

Until S&W completes their investigation and advises us of the appropriate next steps, the temporary ban on M&P 15/22s shall remain in effect.
 
I'm not sure what you're saying, but it makes a big difference. If S&W is upgrading the metal, there would be a reason for that, so I'm curious.

.
.
.

...

And I will ask the question again. What information do you have that S&W is upgrading the metal?

Do you have real information where somebody said that?

OR are you "thinking" that they might be doing that?

That was my point. You didn't answer.

I've had a 15-22 for 5 years, run more than 5000 rounds thru it without problems.
 
Seriously?

No i didn't.....but then again I am not a national organisation which invites people of all ages and abilities to come to my events to shoot and pay for the privilege....If i did charge people to come and shoot with me then i would be fully responsible for their safety.

But you said, and I quote: " Safety should have no price!"

So commercial operations need to use safety equipment that you don't believe is necessary for you or your hunting/shooting partners, family or guests?
 
How is bringing a portable, erect-able, safety screen modifying a range?
Correction.....they had a very good safety record! If they still had we would not be having this discussion.
No they still have a very good safety record.
Because you need to secure the screens to the ground in advance and remove them. It's neither practical nor necessary. You still don't know what Appleseed is do you?
 
Ask yourself this... If trigger groups are idiot proof, why did the 15-22 run away after the instructor tinkered with it?
Nothing is totally idiot proof but AR-15 triggers are pretty idiot proof.

No way of telling why the gun went full auto without having it in hand (seems it went back to S&W and was serviced and became an "expensive club" that "performed well the after that" that still didn't satisfy Project Appleseed), but a stuck firing pin or a piece of broken extractor can give you a full auto with a trigger / hammer that is in good condition.
 
But you said, and I quote: " Safety should have no price!"

So commercial operations need to use safety equipment that you don't believe is necessary for you or your hunting/shooting partners, family or guests?

That is exactly what i am saying! For the simple reasons that they are commercial operations.
 
No they still have a very good safety record.
Because you need to secure the screens to the ground in advance and remove them. It's neither practical nor necessary. You still don't know what Appleseed is do you?

Ask the bleeding girl if she thinks it necessary?
Enlighten me oh wise one...what is Appleseed. Oh and i know how to work the google.
 
Last edited:
No i don't, Either you or i, do not understand what irony means.

Anyway i don't want this to get to ad hominem..that is not why i enjoy this forum.

I suppose none of it matters as long as you have CGL.
 
So, when shooting or hunting with friends or family, did you spare no expense and responsibly make a portable plexiglass screen to place between yourself and the other shooter or hunter?

The safe place is behind the shooter, this is inexpensive and always available. After witnessing three 22 shells detonate and spread parts I preach this constantly.
 
Ask the bleeding girl if she thinks it necessary?
Enlighten me oh wise one...what is Appleseed. Oh and i know how to work the google.

Have you asked her? Then google it. Then you'll know why the alternatives you propose are impractical.
 
So, when shooting or hunting with friends or family, did you spare no expense and responsibly make a portable plexiglass screen to place between yourself and the other shooter or hunter?

This might be one of the dumbest things written here... and that is saying a lot.

When hunting, we don't stand shoulder to shoulder. We rednecks find that rather dangerous and not the best way to hunt with semi auto rifles. When we hunt with rifles, we aren't within rifle shot of each other, much less close enough to get hit by anything ejected from the rifle. Even when 2 hunt together, say a father teaching a son, who the heck would stand or sit in the path of ejected brass? My dad ALWAYS stood or sat behind me when teaching me to deer hunt.

When we shoot with friends/family, we shoot one at a time and never stand next to the shooter... always behind. Safety doesn't have to be just about expense. It helps to respect the weapon and to shoot responsibly. Sorry, but that picture of trainees shooting various rifles and standing so close to each other makes no sense to me. How can that be considered safe?
 
This might be one of the dumbest things written here... and that is saying a lot.

When hunting, we don't stand shoulder to shoulder. We rednecks find that rather dangerous and not the best way to hunt with semi auto rifles. When we hunt with rifles, we aren't within rifle shot of each other, much less close enough to get hit by anything ejected from the rifle. Even when 2 hunt together, say a father teaching a son, who the heck would stand or sit in the path of ejected brass? My dad ALWAYS stood or sat behind me when teaching me to deer hunt.

When we shoot with friends/family, we shoot one at a time and never stand next to the shooter... always behind. Safety doesn't have to be just about expense. It helps to respect the weapon and to shoot responsibly. Sorry, but that picture of trainees shooting various rifles and standing so close to each other makes no sense to me. How can that be considered safe?

Oh good grief. Sitting beside my kids for close supervision when they first went afield far outweighed the inconvenience of my being beaned by their "dangerous" .22 cartridge. As for deer hunting, the regs here for supervision of kids mean you are closely supervising, not off somewhere else. How are you going to sit behind a kid in a tree stand? And we often hunt side by side with others because we spot for each other. But this is simply digressing from the point.

The point was the "spare no expense" comment was presented as an absolute, and several of us were poking various holes in it. From the standpoint of many clubs cannot afford it, to the Appleseed events being held on ranges they do not own, to not applying the same "spare no expense" criteria to yourself that is demanded of others.

As for shooters being jammed together, that probably depends on the individual range. That's not going to fly at most ranges here. Regardless, another problem with jamming so many shooters together is that this more effectively blocks vision of supervisors, so you need a lot more of them observing. And it makes you wonder about crossfiring onto other targets. Have seen that on sight in days at the range with wider spacing and target holders numbered to the benches.

But all this detracts from the main issue. Appleseed claims to be seeing enough of a pattern and injuries and has banned the gun and are demanding a statement from the manufacturer before they allow it back. This has elicited a response from owners of the gun finding all sorts of faults with Appleseed, ranging from good to impractical, but regardless outside the scope of the issue at hand.

The comments that are more in line with the issue are asking why other guns have not also been temporarily banned, why no detailed information was taken at least for the incidents involving injury, etc. Was any attempt made previously to contact S&W about perceived problems or was this a knee jerk reaction to an injury, etc?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top