Model 13 cylinder in a model 10?

[steelslaver]

Right now on Ebay there is a couple nickel model 13 barrel, buy it now $65 or $89, 3 stainless fix sight K frame 357 barrels (model 65) buy it now $80 or $69

A bunch of model 19 cylinders, some nickel for $89 and up.

Your pinto fix sight 357 awaits you


J&G $180 + $31 shipping and FFL
Barrel $65 + $5shipping
Cylinder $90+$5 shipping
Gun smith give him 3 hours at $60 for $180

so 211+70=281+95=376+180=556 and say 25 for the FFL transfer $581
For a couple hundred more you can find a nice model factory model 13

I do it because I can, I get no bill from a gunsmith, I want what I want, I enjoy it. I also check Ebay for S&W parts all the time and buy cheap. I have a draw full of barrels, cylinder and other parts.

 

[9245]

Alternate idea, since it seems a caliber conversion is not feasible, since we know the frame can handle .357 magnum loads, would I be able to safely load .38 special rounds using .357 magnum data? 6.4 grains vs 23 is a heck of a difference.

100 grain solid copper bullet being pushed by 23 grains of Hodgdon H110 or Winchester 296 with a magnum primer? I think that would get me well over 2,000 fps... load data was for a 110 grain .357 magnum.

Alternatively the best .38 special +p load I have been able to find is 6.4 grains of universal and a standard small pistol primer pushing the same bullet to 1,060 fps. Cartridge overall length of 1.53 inches.

 

[Dieseltech56]

When you decrease case capacity all other things being the same you increase pressure. The same load that might fit in a 38 special case will have higher pressure than a 357 case.

Also I know for a fact when you start seating 20+ grains of H110 into a 357 case you will have a compressed load. You will not fit that into a 38 special case. The high charge H110 loads are flame throwers, they do better in longer barrels where the powder has a chance to burn.

I have loaded 20+ grains of H110 behind a 110gr XTP and even in a 20” rifle barrel you still get muzzle flash.

 

[9245]

When you decrease case capacity all other things being the same you increase pressure. The same load that might fit in a 38 special case will have higher pressure than a 357 case.

Also I know for a fact when you start seating 20+ grains of H110 into a 357 case you will have a compressed load. You will not fit that into a 38 special case. The high charge H110 loads are flame throwers, they do better in longer barrels where the powder has a chance to burn.

I have loaded 20+ grains of H110 behind a 110gr XTP and even in a 20” rifle barrel you still get muzzle flash.

My goal is 1,300 fps or better, any suggestions?

I’m attempting to replicate this:

38 Special +P 100 Grain Xtreme Defender – Underwood Ammo

But 1,500+ fps would be even better, that would roughly match my 9mm loads.

My concern with velocity is due to more bad guys wearing armor, so something that can punch 3a makes me feel better, still admittedly unlikely, but it could happen, and I only have 6 rounds. I know a 65 grain 9mm +p extreme defender can do it from a Glock 26, as can a 90 grain +p out of a longer barrel.

 

[Hapworth]

My goal is 1,300 fps or better, any suggestions?

I’m attempting to replicate this:

38 Special +P 100 Grain Xtreme Defender – Underwood Ammo

But 1,500+ fps would be even better, that would roughly match my 9mm loads.

My concern with velocity is due to more bad guys wearing armor, so something that can punch 3a makes me feel better, still admittedly unlikely, but it could happen, and I only have 6 rounds. I know a 65 grain 9mm +p extreme defender can do it from a Glock 26, as can a 90 grain +p out of a longer barrel.

You're going to beat an old 10-6 to hell to no particular purpose except to figure out what it (and possibly your hand) can't take. Even a magnum-rated K-frame from that era isn't going to play nicely very long regularly feeding it top-end (or beyond) magnum numbers -- they weren't built for it.

If that's truly your interest, you're better off getting hands on a current build S&W K or L frame; a Ruger GP would be even better.

 

[steelslaver]

Hey I make model 10s into 357s and I don't worry about the frame one bit. But, I don't believe either of my 19-3 would stand up long to 1400-1500fps loads. You want to do that you best go to an N frame if you want it to last and your still going to start eroding the barrels throat.

For what? a 158gr slug at 1200fps gives you 1200x1200=1,440,000x158=227,520,000/450-240=505ft#
1500x1500=2,250,000x158=355,500,000/450,240=790ft#
Hooray you got 50% ft#.
But, how much bigger and deeper is the hole going to be. 99.99% of the time its a hole in paper anyway.
How much deader is whatever going to be if YOU put tthe bullet where it needs to be??? ZERO thats how much

 

[9245]

Hey I make model 10s into 357s and I don't worry about the frame one bit. But, I don't believe either of my 19-3 would stand up long to 1400-1500fps loads. You want to do that you best go to an N frame if you want it to last and your still going to start eroding the barrels throat.

For what? a 158gr slug at 1200fps gives you 1200x1200=1,440,000x158=227,520,000/450-240=505ft#
1500x1500=2,250,000x158=355,500,000/450,240=790ft#
Hooray you got 50% ft#.
But, how much bigger and deeper is the hole going to be. 99.99% of the time its a hole in paper anyway.
How much deader is whatever going to be if YOU put tthe bullet where it needs to be??? ZERO thats how much

Range use would be standard low pressure 38 special. I’m talking about defensive ammo, other than what I fire for load development and maybe a dozen or so more after that to verify function and zero those loads would never be fired outside of self defense, altogether we are probably talking less than 50 rounds in the entire life of the revolver. I can’t imagine that would cause too much damage would it? All other use would be standard low pressure loads, honestly probably mostly cast lead popgun loads to save on cost.

Also, I’m talking about 100 grain, not 158.

Actually I wouldn’t mind an N frame, I have been looking at the model 327 and the R8, provided I can get them with a 4.2 inch barrel. The cost is off putting though, this is a stop gap measure until I can justify the funds, I have a few other projects and priorities that come first, so this is just a bandaid until that happens.

 

[steelslaver]

A 100gr to 110 gr bullet is do able at that velocity. But the problem then becomes throat erosion. But, I never mess with 100gr bullets in a 357. I am a firm believer that heavy bullet do better in far more conditions than light ones. Your 100gr lightly constructed bullet hits a heavy coat, or anything else then what? Even a lot 9mm guys are going to heavier 125gr to 147gr bullets.

My favorite round it a 255 gr cast bullet from a 45 colt at about 1000fps.

I like it better than my 44 magnums for anything I am ever going to shoot on this continent. My carry gun is an scandium alloy 325 45 acp with a titanium cylinder. I firmly believe a 200gr bullet at 800fps is as good as it gets for a self defense handgun. If I do my part, it will do its part. That is far more important than all the velocity in the world.

You would be far better off spending money shooting what you carry. I firmly believe that if the time comes you don't need variables. You need what you really know. Your life is on the line and you want to add more muzzle flash, different recoil and point of impact? I go with no on that myself.

But, then I stopped worshiping maximum velocity long ago.

BTW 1500x1500=2,250,000x100=225,000,000/450,420=500ft#

 

[9245]

A 100gr to 110 gr bullet is do able at that velocity. But the problem then becomes throat erosion. But, I never mess with 100gr bullets in a 357. I am a firm believer that heavy bullet do better in far more conditions than light ones. Your 100gr lightly constructed bullet hits a heavy coat, or anything else then what? Even a lot 9mm guys are going to heavier 125gr to 147gr bullets.

My favorite round it a 255 gr cast bullet from a 45 colt at about 1000fps.

I like it better than my 44 magnums for anything I am ever going to shoot on this continent. My carry gun is an scandium alloy 325 45 acp with a titanium cylinder. I firmly believe a 200gr bullet at 800fps is as good as it gets for a self defense handgun. If I do my part, it will do its part. That is far more important than all the velocity in the world.

You would be far better off spending money shooting what you carry. I firmly believe that if the time comes you don't need variables. You need what you really know. Your life is on the line and you want to add more muzzle flash, different recoil and point of impact? I go with no on that myself.

But, then I stopped worshiping maximum velocity long ago.

BTW 1500x1500=2,250,000x100=225,000,000/450,420=500ft#

The projectile is solid copper, I’m talking about the extreme defender by Lehigh Defense, it uses fluid transfer instead of acting like a hollow point, as flesh moves through the flutes on the bullet it creates a fluid shockwave and a better wounding than a hollow point, the thing is it’s a velocity dependent design, the more velocity, the better it performs, and as an added benefit it makes it more likely to defeat barriers and armor.

I agree with you on practicing with what you carry, however in this case because of the issues you mentioned it is not practical, also the projectiles alone are about 70 cents each, so I’ll just be noting where the zero moves to and correcting for it, if I had adjustable sights I would zero to my defense ammo and use Kentucky windage for the practice ammo, but with fixed sights I have to use Kentucky windage for both. However it should be pointed out that the average self defense shooting occurs at about 3 feet and most people zero defensive handgun sights at just 21 feet so I don’t the shift in the point of impact will be that severe.

 

[Hapworth]

The projectile is solid copper, I’m talking about the extreme defender by Lehigh Defense, it uses fluid transfer instead of acting like a hollow point, as flesh moves through the flutes on the bullet it creates a fluid shockwave and a better wounding than a hollow point, the thing is it’s a velocity dependent design, the more velocity, the better it performs, and as an added benefit it makes it more likely to defeat barriers and armor...

That's mostly marketing boilerplate. Is there a solid, evidence-based reason you appear to be gearing all your choices around a particular and unproven bullet?

 

[Muley Gil]

" ... more likely to defeat barriers and armor."

If it defeats soft body armor, it would be illegal under Federal law.

For the money you are discussing putting into this conversion. you could afford to practice more and concentrate on bullet placement. The FBI load, using a 158 grain lead hollow point, is a proven round.

 

[steelslaver]

To me your trying to to fix something that isn't broken with high tech. People have been being killed with 38 caliber bullets for well over hundred years and lots of them with round nosed lead. Your super bullet will most likely be something else once the high tech tip is full of denim, nylon, part of a zipper or something else. Sounds like a fishing lure advertisement. It probably works great in a lab. Some guys fall down dead with a 22lr, some guys keep going after being hit with a 44 mag. Your bullet isn't going to change that. Hey I have seen deer keep going after being hit in the chest with a 100gr bullet going 3000fps from 6mm Remington and 243 Winchesters. Your 100 gr bullet at 1/2 the velocity and 1/2 the twist rate, isn't going to have more "hydraulic shock" and do better because it has a fancy tip. Just won't.

Its like spending a whole bunch of time and money getting a super light trigger pull. While I do like smooth and even light, after playing around I went down the become a better trigger puller path.

 

[9245]

That's mostly marketing boilerplate. Is there a solid, evidence-based reason you appear to be gearing all your choices around a particular and unproven bullet?

Ballistic gel tests.

 

[9245]

To me your trying to to fix something that isn't broken with high tech. People have been being killed with 38 caliber bullets for 200 hundred years and lots of them with round nosed lead. Your supper bullet will most likely be something else once the high tech tip is full of denim, nylon, part of a zipper or something else. Sounds like a fishing lure advertisement. It probably works get in a lab. Some guys fall down dead with a 22lr, some guys keep going after being hit with a 44 mag. Your bullet isn't going to change that. Hey I have seen deer keep going after being hit in the chest with a 100gr bullet going 3000fps from 6mm Remington and 243 Winchesters. Your 100 gr bullet at 1/2 the velocity and 1/2 the twist rate, isn't going to have more "hydraulic shock" and do better because it has a fancy tip. Just won't.

Its like spending a whole bunch of time and money getting a super light trigger pull. While I do like smooth and even light, after playing around I went down the become a better trigger puller path.

There is no hollow point, it is a machined piece of copper.

 

[Hapworth]

Ballistic gel tests.

Links to tests?

 

[Justamessenger]

Do what you want for the range and for posting pics and for fondling...
Carry a bone stock gun and bone stock factory loads, unless you want to be crucified in court.

 

[GerSan69]

To me your trying to to fix something that isn't broken with high tech. People have been being killed with 38 caliber bullets for 200 hundred years and lots of them with round nosed lead. Your supper bullet will most likely be something else once the high tech tip is full of denim, nylon, part of a zipper or something else. Sounds like a fishing lure advertisement. It probably works get in a lab. Some guys fall down dead with a 22lr, some guys keep going after being hit with a 44 mag. Your bullet isn't going to change that. Hey I have seen deer keep going after being hit in the chest with a 100gr bullet going 3000fps from 6mm Remington and 243 Winchesters. Your 100 gr bullet at 1/2 the velocity and 1/2 the twist rate, isn't going to have more "hydraulic shock" and do better because it has a fancy tip. Just won't.

Its like spending a whole bunch of time and money getting a super light trigger pull. While I do like smooth and even light, after playing around I went down the become a better trigger puller path.

Steelslaver, you are the wisest man I've ever "met." Talk about getting to the heart of the matter and saying what needs to be said.
I tip my internet-issue cap to you, sir.

 

[jjmIII_Ruger]

My goal is 1,300 fps or better, any suggestions?

38 Special +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

 

[steelslaver]

I am sure this bullet would be great to have if I ever have to defend myself against a naked block of boneless ballistic gel. But, most likely it will be a human between 140 to 300# wearing anything from a wife beater T shirt to a Carhart coat, a flannel shirt with a pack of cigs in the pocket and thermal underwear. Plus maybe a necklace with a hunk of metal on it. Who knows. I am going with a big heavy bullet. As a civilian, I doubt car doors, body armor or ballistic gel will be in the equation

I once saw about a 200# running mule deer buck, wearing a light fur coat, get hit in the side by a 105 gr ,243 going close to 3000fps. It hunched up like gut shot, the next shot dropped it. Upon dressing it proved the first bullet struck a rib and turned and went back into the guts, 2nd round stuck just inches away, hit no rib and blew its heart up. The guy shooting the 243 was an excellent shot to nail it the second time or that deer may have gone a long ways. I have yet to see a deer or elk go very far when I shot it in the chest with a bullet over 150gr. But, did have one I shot right behind the front shoulder just above the heart with a 180gr 300 Winchester Magnum go about 30' before it piled up. Thats a lot of bullet, velocity and expansion for something under 200#. There is no Magic bullet.

 

[steelslaver]

Do what you want for the range and for posting pics and for fondling...
Carry a bone stock gun and bone stock factory loads, unless you want to be crucified in court.

You see comments like this all the time and although I am sure that a prosecutor that is out to get you will throw up as much mud as he can to see what will stick, there isn't much case law to prove that having a modified gun or ammunition is going to make the difference. The prosecutor can just as easily try to make hay with your choice of stock gun and ammo. Why were you carrying a deadly cop killer 357 magnum with 110-158gr high velocity full metal jackets, hollow, soft points??? Why were you carrying it in a such and such holster that allowed you to draw it rapidly?? Why were you carrying so much ammo. Why did you have a deadly Glock that holds 19 rounds of a military round like the 9mm "German Luger" ???? Why did you feel it necessary to have a concealed weapons permit??? How come you own 3,5 12, 23 or 58 guns Mr shooter???? On and on.

This would also vary from location to location. Shooting to shooting. If YOU did the right thing I highly doubt your choice of either gun or ammo is going to convict you.