Broken S&W revolver

[DanCaldwell1120]

Trigger/cylinder lock pin

Here are pictures of the trigger missing the cylinder lock pin. I also included one of the cylinder lock protruding into the area where it contacting the cylinder. It seems like it doesn’t protrude far enough but I don’t have anything to compare it to. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[walter o]

looks like trigger has the tip broken and not lone enough to catch on the plunger in the cyl lock. Took a picture of my 1899-38 hand ejector

hope this helps .Only other thought is the cyl lock might be the wrong part.
I think if the tip of the trigger is broken off it could be welded and re shaped or he who supplied the cyl lock might have a trigger.
Did you compare the 2 cyl locking bolts might be a slight difference. You DO have the old lock?

 

[Hondo44]

I had to disassemble it to get the rounds out. I believe there was a sheared pin inside. I save all the parts and I have finally gotten around to trying to fix it. Thanks

Dan, welcome to the forum.

The key point you made was that you "...had to disassemble it to get the rounds out." The only thing that would prevent the cyl from opening is the position of the hammer which blocks the cyl release button from being pushed forward. Your photos show the hammer partially back therefore it's rear most 'tail' is blocking the cyl release.

You spoke of a sheared pin. Can you please indicate the pin that you refer to? Do you have a broken pin location to show us? We're kind'a running blind here w/o knowing that unless I missed that.

The cyl stop (lock) discussed would not prevent the cyl from opening to unload it. In fact it would not prevent the gun from cycling even if not installed, the cyl just wouldn't lock up each chamber in alignment with the barrel. Only the trigger and therefore the hammer not being all the way forward can prevent cyl opening.

Are you able to assemble your lockwork parts including the trigger return spring (use your original cyl stop), as shown in Gary's side-by-side photos?

 

[OLDSTER]

I believe that I have a S&W hand ejector 3rd model that I inherited from my grandfather. My best guess is it is from circa 1930s. It has the number 10062 stamped on the butt of the gun. While shooting it at a shooting range a few years ago it broke. I had to disassemble it to get the rounds out. I believe there was a sheared pin inside. I save all the parts and I have finally gotten around to trying to fix it. Can someone confirm the type of gun and tell me where I can either find instructions for construction or where I take it to get someone to help me repair it. Thanks

I agree with post #21. The "hand" is missing..

 

[Hondo44]

I agree with post #21. The "hand" is missing..

See post #31.

 

[glowe]

Jim, I think there is getting to be quite a bit of confusion of what model we are discussing, what is missing or broken, and what caused the original issue. My thought was that if the cylinder stop was fully engaged in the cylinder slot and that could prohibit the cylinder from opening as well in my mind. I have had some stops that sat quite high in the cylinder window and I would have to hit the cylinder with my hand to pop it open. I assume that some type of malfunction with the stop could jam the cylinder. If the rear of the cylinder stop was snapped off, it could potentially lodge in the slot and jam the cylinder, but the OP has not mentioned where the broken part of the stop is or if it was in the gun at all??

It could also be that the ejector rod assembly is compromised and not fully pushing forward to clear the recoil shield?? Thet, of course would not prevent the cylinder from rotating but not sure if we know if the cylinder would not rotate or was just stuck in the frame??

What I am no longer clear on is whether a pin was broken or the stop was broken?? I do not see any pin broken and also do not see the stop appearing through the bottom frame, so don't know what the original condition was??

 

[Hondo44]

Gary you nailed the model and vintage as far as I can tell!

But some factoid is missing here, I agree.

We see the hand in the gun, post #31, but we haven't seen the hand pin. We need a photo of the back side of the hand. I'm wondering if that pin is sheared off or bent... that would prevent the trigger return spring from properly returning the trigger. Which in turn might prevent the hammer from fully returning therefore why it's blocking the cyl release as shown.

Although the hammer may just be back somewhat because the mainspring seems to be slack, not under tension.

I don't have a 1903 model: if you unhook the trigger spring from the hand in your gun, does the non-rebounded trigger hold the hammer from fully returning?

 

[walter o]

The pin that is missing is shown on the original post by Dan Caldwell
the picture that i posted shows the pin and hammer hook riding above it ,to pull down the cyl.stop when the trigger is pulled .That is why i asked Dan if the 2 cyl stops are exactly the same-his old 1 and the one he purchased.

 

[glowe]

Walter, the gun you show in post #42 is a K frame and the OP's gun is an I frame. Similar cylinder stops, but not the same. Also, both the trigger and cylinder stop pins are there, so still do not know what pin is missing? The hole visible in the rear of the trigger is where the hand goes. The K frame is a totally different action and the second spring is only used to actuate the sear (if that is the correct term) and the trigger is actuated by the hammer and mainspring.

Jim, the spring in question is actually a hand spring, not quite a trigger spring. The small appendage showing actuates the hand, which in turn keeps pressure on the trigger and allows it to return after firing. Odd setup by modern standards, but worked well. As for whether you can cycle the action without the spring, I would say no because too many things are dependent on that spring. Trigger/hand/hammer interaction will be affected and probably be out of sync so would not allow the gun to function.

The spring keeps forward pressure on the hand, which in turn pushes down on the rear of the trigger, keeping it forward, and interacts with the hammer in double action mode cocking the hammer with the trigger rearward movement. There is a small stirrup that is part of the hand and I circled that in the attached image. I also have shaded the spring as it passes behind the hand to better visualize the action. Interesting that using the revolver in double action, one must overcome the resistance of both the hand spring and the hammer spring, giving these revolvers a heavy DA trigger pull.

 

[Hondo44]

The pin that is missing is shown on the original post by Dan Caldwell
the picture that i posted shows the pin and hammer hook riding above it ,to pull down the cyl.stop when the trigger is pulled .That is why i asked Dan if the 2 cyl stops are exactly the same-his old 1 and the one he purchased.

I think you mean trigger hook ???

But here in this one of the string of photos I can see a pin; it even casts a shadow:

Maybe the owner needs to assemble the action with the new cyl stop to see if that fixes it.

The 'button' that sticks thru the frame is taller on the new stop and may need fitting.

 

[walter o]

yes i meant to say trigger

 

[DanCaldwell1120]

It would help if you gave you location. For all we know one of the early model experts lives very close to you and could drive over and get you lined out or tell you of a gun smith with experience on these who is nearby.

I know I would be willing to go help out a fellow S&W owner.

Thanks everyone. The pin that was originally broken was the pin that the trigger engages on the cylinder stop. The pictures that I posted yesterday were the new cylinder stop that includes the pin.

Unfortunately, I sent the old cylinder lock to Trader so he could match it and unfortunately it was lost in shipping.

I orignially thought the trigger tip could be broke but looking at my original post the tip of the trigger goes over the hole from the missing pin in the old cylinder lock.

I think the picture that glowe posted shows a difference between his cylinder lock and the one that I have. I think I need to go find the correct cylinder lock.

btw... you guys are great. Thanks for all the help. I'd be lost without your help. I'm hopeful that I will be able to salvage a family heirloom!

 

[ddixie884]

I am impressed, again. You guys are something else..............

 

[Muley Gil]

Thanks everyone. The pin that was originally broken was the pin that the trigger engages on the cylinder stop. The pictures that I posted yesterday were the new cylinder stop that includes the pin.

Unfortunately, I sent the old cylinder lock to Trader so he could match it and unfortunately it was lost in shipping.

I orignially thought the trigger tip could be broke but looking at my original post the tip of the trigger goes over the hole from the missing pin in the old cylinder lock.

I think the picture that glowe posted shows a difference between his cylinder lock and the one that I have. I think I need to go find the correct cylinder lock.

btw... you guys are great. Thanks for all the help. I'd be lost without your help. I'm hopeful that I will be able to salvage a family heirloom!

Can you take a picture, close up, with a ruler for scale, of the cylinder stop? I have some old ones that just might fit.

 

[MNruss]

At the risk of proving my ignorance, could it be that the front-of-triggerguard plunger, spring, and screw simply haven’t been installed yet with the new cylinder lock ?
Or what allows the trigger to return past the lock ?
It’s certainly possible that I don’t understand this lockwork.

Russ

 

[Muley Gil]

At the risk of proving my ignorance, could it be that the front-of-triggerguard plunger, spring, and screw simply haven’t been installed yet with the new cylinder lock ?
Or what allows the trigger to return past the lock ?
It’s certainly possible that I don’t understand this lockwork.

Russ

The plunger is part of the cylinder stop. Look at post #16, picture #3.

 

[walter o]

This is why the confusion . S&W consistently was working and making improvements on their guns ,that is why we now have a superior fire arm
As a mechanic i would like to see someone with the knowledge make a Good photo display with ALL of the changes and improvements over the years of the lock works of S&W revolvers.David Chicoines book does not cover all of the lock works .and i know of no other .It would be a HUGH undertaking. Maybe in a book forum?I enjoy seeing the progress that S&W made through the models and how each mechanical function is modified and made simpler

 

[MNruss]

The plunger is part of the cylinder stop. Look at post #16, picture #3.

Okay, now I understand a little.

Still, if you look at glowe’s photos in post #21,
the OP’s cylinder stop is closer to the front of the recess, or hole.
Could it be that these parts are not installed/not installed correctly ?
I mean the plunger and spring might not be holding the cylinder stop towards the back.

Russ

 

[Hondo44]

Well thanks to the better eyesight of the other members, I now understand the problem. But the new part clearly is not quite right. Can you overlay the original cyl stop on the new stop to compare the hole spacing. When the mounting holes are aligned will the pin on the new part nest in the hole with missing pin of the old part?

Either the new part hole spacing is incorrect or the old part had a larger diameter head on its pin so the trigger hook could reach it.

 

[Muley Gil]

Well thanks to the better eyesight of the other members, I now understand the problem. But the new part clearly is not quite right. Can you overlay the original cyl stop on the new stop to compare the hole spacing. When the mounting holes are aligned will the pin on the new part nest in the hole with missing pin of the old part?

Either the new part hole spacing is incorrect or the old part had a larger diameter head on its pin so the trigger hook could reach it.

From post #52:

"Unfortunately, I sent the old cylinder lock to Trader so he could match it and unfortunately it was lost in shipping."