IMO An Incidence Of An Eye Popping Lack Of Corporate Ethics At Smith & Wesson

[dwever]

So some of you may have seen my thread where I was delivered a performance center 460 XVR 3.5 inch barreled X Frame. This weapon shot a foot high at 15 yards and was at the end of its site adjustment to fix it. After taking it back to the retailer their Gun Smith there took over getting it fixed.

After three calls to Smith & Wesson trying to get the proper site shipped, and at no cost, the gunsmith at the retailer called me this morning to inform me the lady representative at Smith & Wesson admitted to him today on the third overall call that Smith & Wesson is completely out of and has been out of the proper height site. That during manufacturing without the proper site they chose to ship weapons with the shorter improper sites.

If true, which I reasonably believe it is, that was an alarming corporate admission. Smith & Wesson just said that they knowingly shipped $1900 revolvers with improper parts rendering the weapon mechanically incapable of striking what they are aimed at. They did this knowingly and with premeditation. Am I missing something?

The company I work for has business on Admirality Island, Alaska, with the highest concentration of brown bear in the world with 1600 brown bear on 1,000,000 acres. There are also plenty of times in Alaska it doesn't hurt to have bear protection on you. This weapon was bought for protection. I am baffled at S&W actions in that they advertise this weapon as protection from dangerous game in Alaska and Africa but knowingly ship it unable to shoot straight.

If I am over reacting sorry. I am aggravated and I am also pretty disappointed in a company I once venerated.

 

[Yaworski]

I'd be p*ssed.

 

[moralem]

That's the secretary's story……….

 

[ImDrRich]

You're only aggravated?

I'd be writing a letter to the current president of Smith & Wesson about what you have been told and demanding a replacement self-protection handgun of your preference.

I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that customer service rep. admitted to the company being knowingly negligent.

 

[moosedog]

I am very sad to hear this. Hope the secretary was wrong.

 

[waffles]

Assuming that both the S&W rep and the gunsmith who called you have their information right, that's a pretty baffling move. Purposefully using the wrong part to get products out the door instead of waiting for the correct part is pretty shady, but doing it on a part that the customer WILL notice and demand a repair on just seems dumb.

 

[SmithNut]

From the side view the pin in the sight base appears forward, is that a Classic sight system? Can you remove the front sight by pushing it rearward and tilting the sight up and out?

If that's the case, you can probably find a suitable sight blade replacement (taller), maybe not fiber optic, but one that will get you on paper correctly until the factory gets you the right one.

Here's a recent thread where the Classic sight blades were discussed

S&W Set of Front Sights in Blue Box

Just curious.........

 

[SmithNut]

Followup....

Just found pics of your gun on the net showing the front of the sight, it IS the Classic sight system, so you can easily replace it if/when they send you the right one, in the mean time Classic sight blades are available (the last one's I purchased years ago were from S&W). If it were me, I'd get a couple different heights to get it regulated to your ammo so you can get use out of your revolver until the factory get's you the right F/O blade.

 

[Protocall_Design]

According to my calculations, you need a front sight about .150 taller than the current one. We don't know what the one on the gun is, I'm guessing around .250. Tell us how tall it is and I will make and send you one that's .150 taller.

 

[GypsmJim]

I truly feel sorry for the problem and the outcome. I can identify. MY problem is that this is not isolated to any single company. It see,ms like we all are getting screwed by every company.

 

[mckenney99]

Whether this was a conscious decision by someone at Smith & Wesson or not, it was completely unacceptable for that revolver to have gotten out the door with a sight that is VERY obviously not correct. I know that there are certain S&W defenders here who will chime in and state that every manufacturer can have isolated issues slip out, but it is obvious that S&W has some MAJOR quality control problems that need to be fixed immediately. Yes Smith & Wesson offers a limited lifetime warranty but it is COMPLETELY unacceptable to have to send back a brand new firearm once, twice or more just to get a functional firearm. I personally will not even consider purchasing a new production revolver from Smith & Wesson until I see clear evidence they are getting things straightened out.

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

Have you called S&W?
I'm sure you gunsmith is a standup guy but I would have been on the phone myself as the actual customer.

 

[Autonomous]

To deliberately send out a gun that can't shoot close to its point of aim is unethical.

 

[Rpg]

Consider reporting this to your state's consumer protection people.

I suspect that Smith will sit up and take notice of a consumer product investigation by a State.

 

[stansdds]

Ranks right up there with buying a new car or truck, but you can't drive it off the dealer's lot because it was shipped without its onboard computer. We live in "interesting" times.

 

[Benchrest1]

Bowen sells a blade blank that can be filed to the right height. I've used these a lot with great success.

 

[6string]

This is unfortunate but sadly is neither unique nor new.

S&W, at various times in the past, has knowingly shipped guns that were not to spec or which may not function in an ideal way.
I know this from firsthand experience. Decades ago, when I was finishing high school, my Dad, who worked for a major firearms maker, took me to a trade show. It was a fantastic experience.
I remember visiting the S&W booth. (I still have the catalog they gave me) One of the employees felt like making small talk. He says "Ya know what our most popular guns are? The .38 snubbies! People buy'em and put'em in their nightstands and never shoot'em. There's not much point putting a bunch of time working on a gun that'll never get shot. It's cheaper to let the occasional one come back for warranty work."

Maybe the factory figures most people aren't gonna shoot an X frame in .460 Magnum with a 3.5 inch barrel one shot more than they have to!
Not that that's an acceptable excuse!
I've spent some time in Alaska and have seen big bears and moose in the wild. There's a reason why even the Walmart in Anchorage has a display case full of .44s, .460s, and .500 S&W revolvers!
Is Arctic Ammo in Wasilla? I think I stopped in there once while driving from Anchorage to Valdez.

Best Wishes to you for getting it fixed.
Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

..I was delivered a performance center 460 XVR 3.5 inch barreled X Frame. This weapon shot a foot high at 15 yards...
...the lady representative at Smith & Wesson admitted to him today on the third overall call that Smith & Wesson is completely out of and has been out of the proper height site. That during manufacturing without the proper site they chose to ship weapons with the shorter improper sites.

Was it delivered as a new gun?

When was your revolver made? Do you have a picture of the box label you can post?

You told us the distance but not what ammo you were shooting.

The front sight is easily removed. What height is the one on yours?

My 460 PC Carry (mfd Jan-2014) came with a green front sight that measured .208" tall & the rear sight's blade measured .131" tall.

I bought my 460 from the original owner & he had issues with the sights too, as I recall, & installed a taller front sight . I didn't like its sights & they weren't regulated for close range either, best I remember now, so I replaced them.

I currently have a red DX style SDM Super Sight front sight (C300R) on it measuring .306" tall & I replaced the rear sight with a blade .160" tall.

Shooting bullets 225gr to 300gr it's now regulated for 15-25yd ranges.

.



.

 

[luvsmiths]

So some of you may have seen my thread where I was delivered a performance center 460 XVR 3.5 inch barreled X Frame. This weapon shot a foot high at 15 yards and was at the end of its site adjustment to fix it. After taking it back to Arctic Ammo in the Palmer Wasilla area of Alaska the Gun Smith there took over getting it fixed. Arctic Ammo has gone above and beyond their responsibility as the retailer. Arctic Ammo quickly diagnosed the front site was too short. The gunsmith told me today that he is unable to find the proper sites anywhere and he is still looking. My impression is, the smith knows exactly what S&W front site he is looking for due to speaking with Smith & Wesson.

After three calls to Smith & Wesson trying to get the proper site shipped, and at no cost, the gunsmith at Arctic Ammo called me this morning to inform me the lady representative at Smith & Wesson admitted to him today on the third overall call that Smith & Wesson is completely out of and has been out of the proper height site. That during manufacturing without the proper site they chose to ship weapons with the shorter improper sites.

That was an absolute staggering corporate admission. Smith & Wesson just said that they knowingly shipped $1900 revolvers with improper parts rendering the weapon mechanically incapable of striking what they are aimed at. They did this knowingly and with premeditation. Am I missing something?

The company I work for has business on Admirality Island, Alaska, with the highest concentration of brown bear in the world with 1600 brown bear on 1,000,000 acres. There are also plenty of times in Alaska it doesn't hurt to have bear protection on you. This weapon was bought for protection. I am baffled at S&W actions in that they advertise this weapon as protection from dangerous game in Alaska and Africa but knowingly ship it unable to shoot straight.

If I am over reacting sorry. I am aggravated and I am also pretty disappointed in a company I once venerated.

And people don't like Glocks. These stories don't happen with them, and are happening MORE and MORE with S&W, you see, by just reading here on this forum.
The guy with the 10mm that the mag fell out every time he pulled the trigger was last one I recall. He got a letter from the President I think, and a brand new gun that also didn't work. Wonderful.
Smith and Wesson is NOT the Smith and Wesson of Old. Not for a LONG time now.

 

[JJEH]

Well, that would be something I would talk to an attorney about. If the gunsmith changes his story, then you know he was lying about the phone call (I'm not saying he did!).

On the other hand, you just gave the anti-gun crowd a bunch of ammo to use and continue pursuing frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers in regard to citizen involved shootings.